MovieChat Forums > Father of Lights (2012) Discussion > can you really make a documentary about ...

can you really make a documentary about a fictional character?


Perhaps they managed to film God, in which case he isn't fictional after all.

Either way, those of us who are freethinkers don't wish to "disbelieve" per se. We just need evidence, and not anecdotal or second-hand "revelation", in order to believe. The improbable — what many people mistakenly call "miracles" — also are not evidence.

If "He" wants more believers, "He" should give us reason to believe. For example, after Jesus was executed, he apparently came back to life. Why didn't he hang around to continue teaching? Who would doubt a 2000-year-old man?

Those who insist "faith" is sufficient are charlatans who use the faith of others for personal enrichment and power.

It is not fact until proven. A large number of people willing to believe in fictions does not make them factual.

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He's not fictional and thanks for your opinions!

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You want proof? Well, thing is if you've already made up your mind in not believing that there's a God then there is not point in convincing you. I have seen healing take place in front of my own eyes, people who were physically hurt, being healed! That was the time when i became a Christian, just a few months ago. I didn't used to believe in that stuff either.

If you really want to dig into it, try going to a few Christian, especially 'Vineyard' Church conferences, and you'll see things happen! trust me.

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You are already set on him being fictional man, but god bless! Hope you have a blessed day

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Dude there's more evidence for Jesus than most things you do believe. The thing is you have to question if The Bible is legitimate or not and the evidence points toward a resounding yes. The same Bible prophesies of his death and resurrection before his birth and it also says more than 500 people witnessed his resurrection. But as others said, if your excuse is to question God and why he doesn't do this or that then I recommend rather looking into it. It will change your life. The evidence is there. Plenty of it.

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Hi,

TomRosicky17 said:

Dude there's more evidence for Jesus than most things you do believe.
I have no idea what the OP does or doesn't believe, but I'm pretty sure you are wrong with this statement. The evidence for christ is laughably poor. There are no contemporaneous writings about him what so ever (despite there being being many people in the right place at the write time looking to write about just the type of things he allegedly did). The earliest writings to speak of him as a historical person were the four gospels, all of which are obviously very biased and all of which were written one to three generations after the time he was said to have lived. If you think this is strong evidence, I hate to imaging what you think is poor evidence LOL
The thing is you have to question if The Bible is legitimate or not
I completely agree with you.
and the evidence points toward a resounding yes.
I completely disagree with you.
The same Bible prophesies of his death and resurrection before his birth
Wow, it's almost like the people who wrote the new testament had read the old testament or something.
and it also says more than 500 people witnessed his resurrection.
and not a single one of them bothered to write anything down about it, or mention all the zombies wandering about (Matthew 27:52), and anyway I've read loads of books where lots of people are said to have seen something, but unless specifics are given about these people and they later verify they actually did witness these events, it's nothing more than fiction.
if your excuse is to question God and why he doesn't do this or that then I recommend rather looking into it. It will change your life.
If only theists would put some thought and research into their beliefs.
The evidence is there. Plenty of it.
So why can theists never provide anything other than poor anecdotal evidence when asked? If the evidence is as plentiful and clear cut as you claim, why are there so many competing religions (including around 30,000-40,000 christian denominations alone)?

~Mex

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Did you ever notice that people who believe in creationism look really un-evolved?

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Mex5150 » -



I have no idea what the OP does or doesn't believe, but I'm pretty sure you are wrong with this statement. The evidence for christ is laughably poor.




Which is why absolutley no Serious Historian doubts he existed, and only nutcases like Richard Carier, or Acharya S advocate this claim. Peopel ith nown and obvous hatred towards Christianity and hwo make a liign bashign it.


Sorry lad, the :"Laughabky poor" evidence that Jesus existed is so overwhelmign that it's not remotlly taken seriosuly by Academic Historians.




There are no contemporaneous writings about him what so ever




So, Socratese didn't exist? How about Alexander The Great? Or Hannibal? No Contemporary Evidence exists for any of them.


The real problem is that most of Ancient History comes ot us via secondary soruces. Over TIme many documents are sily lost, and other TImes peopel didn't even bother writting thigns down till well after the events occured.


In terms of Jesus, though,we have far mroe written abotu hin withi Living Mmeory than most other Ancient Fogures, which alone speaks of a rela man at the core of the stories.

And many of the EPistles were written by eoeplw ho knew him personally.





(despite there being being many people in the right place at the write time looking to write about just the type of things he allegedly did).




Such as Who? Mythers like to say this all the Time but really, most of the peopel they;d name either weren't actulaly there or else had no interest in an Itenerate Rabbi.





The earliest writings to speak of him as a historical person were the four gospels,




Well, if you either ignroe Paul's Epistles or buy intot he nnsnese that Paul beleived in a "Celestial jesus", despite him clealry calling Jesus a Man who livedon Earth several Times.


Oh, and the Firts Epistle of Peter.


And James.






all of which are obviously very biased





Name a single Ancient Historical Soruce hats not Biased.






and all of which were written one to three generations after the time he was said to have lived.




This is where Acharya S leads you astray.



All Fur Gospels were written in the First Century AD. That places them all within living memory of Jesus, not two or three generations removed from him.







If you think this is strong evidence, I hate to imaging what you think is poor evidence LOL





Well, you got the dates of the Gospels wrong, and seem to ignore the Epistles which were written before the Gospels, or else want to pretned Paul's EPistles never menton an Earthly Jesus, hich isnt True, and wish to date the Gospels ot much laer than they were actually written.






The thing is you have to question if The Bible is legitimate or notI completely agree with you.




No, from a Historical standpint you need to think of the Bible as a collection of different books written at DIfferent Times by different Authors, not as one big single book.


I often hear the lame arugment from Mythers that Genesis is cleslry mythical, exct, thus the Biel cant be reliedupon, but this is ridiculius when you reflecton hwo meanignless that is next to whether or nit the Gospels hold reliabel information. And at the same Time, the idea that it's either 100% Reliabke or 100% Myth is itself a ridiculous idea.





and the evidence points toward a resounding yes.I completely disagree with you.




But yiu dsagree withhim on the strenght of arugments you learned form peope who hate Christainity, and hwo got their basic facts wrong. You, in turn, got yoru facts wrong as a result.


That makes you unreliable.




The same Bible prophesies of his death and resurrection before his birthWow, it's almost like the people who wrote the new testament had read the old testament or something.




Which doens't really mitigate the fact that jesus the man, lived.




and it also says more than 500 people witnessed his resurrection.




No, it doens't. It says that 500peopel can verify they sw him as a livign man after his ressurection.


There is a difference.


By th way, when Paul wrot that he also said you cold ask them personally and didn't have to take his word for it. That's a pretty odd thing to say if youthink jeuss is a celestial deity who never lived on Earth, and equally odd if Jeuss never existed at all.





and not a single one of them bothered to write anything down about it,



Well, except the New testament. Also, how do yiu know more wasn't written and lost?


What's more, given this is the Ancient World which out mroe stock on living memory than on text, and had a low literacy rate anyway, do you relaly think the hole "No one write it dwn" argument holds?

And what if they had? You'd still argue it was them lyign or that the text actually came from 100 Years later.






or mention all the zombies wandering about (Matthew 27:52),




Yeah the Zombie gag is old now. Matthew 27 does not mention rottign undead corpsies wonderig around, which is what a Zombie is. The peoepl who were raised from the dead were fully alive, not Zombuies, and if you can't take the texgt seriosuly in a discussion and hve ot fall bakc on the Zombie routine it only oprives how you've decided in advance ot bash Chritainity, and how you don't cre about facts.


Also, there are Ancient texts which refer to similar events.





and anyway I've read loads of books where lots of people are said to have seen something, but unless specifics are given about these people and they later verify they actually did witness these events, it's nothing more than fiction.




No, its not. Foction by definition is soehign knwon to not be true. We dont count witness accoutns as Fictional even if they ae unreliable.






if your excuse is to question God and why he doesn't do this or that then I recommend rather looking into it. It will change your life.If only theists would put some thought and research into their beliefs.




This is another Trope that doens't fly. The ides that Theists don't quetion their beleifs and just accepthtem withotu Reaosn or evidence, combind whtthe idea that Athiests are Rational folks hwo always do researhc is nonsense. You don't quesiton yoru own beleifs, and your :"Research" is just you findign websites and a few books thta tekl you how Christianity is one big Lie and beleivign the claism in such materials withotu questiongn it.


The whole ChristMyth Theory is sheer stupidity that yoi beleive more becuse it undermiens Christanity than because it makes sense.


Meanwhle, plenty of Thisst spend years, or even their entire Lifetime in seriosu Reearch, and plent of htem have givne a lot of Thogyht to what they beleive and why.

So can this crap, it;'s demeanign and insultign and clealry not True.


The Caricature of Theisst as unthinkign followers and Athiests as Rational freethinkers is simly illegitimate.





The evidence is there. Plenty of it.



I know. And I love lookig at it so much I soent a small fortune gettign a degree in Religiosu studies.


You, on the other hand, beleive crp from peoepl lie Acharya S what's easy to disprove using a stabdard Search engine.





So why can theists never provide anything other than poor anecdotal evidence when asked?



Theists provide a lot mroe than poor anecdotal evidence. However, despite claimign to research things, you simply don't want to listen.


Des Carte, for example, put forward an arugment for God's existence, and so did Thomas Aquinas. (And the "Rebuttals" to Aquinases Five aruments you see online dont really work if you read whta he aclaly said.) An what about Spinoza? Or Paul TIllich? Or Spurgeon? Or heck even former Atheist now Deist ( And deism is a form of Theosm, nto an alternative to it) Anthoy Flew?


Have you even read these arugments?


The ides that Theists only have Anecdotal evidnece is stupidity.




If the evidence is as plentiful and clear cut as you claim, why are there so many competing religions (including around 30,000-40,000 christian denominations alone)?




How does that prove that God doens't exist? Are you relaly sayign that if we had evidence that Gid existed we'd not have multipel Relgiions? Bcause proving God exists is not the ame thign as proving yoru understanding of who God is, or how we shoudl live as Humans on Earth, is Right, and that's what causes diides in Chtianity, and in several other Relgiions, unless those Relgiiosn are Atheistic.


It doens't relaly prove anythign at all about God's eistnce that many Relgiiosn eist. This is like saying if Law exists then why do so many natiosn exist?

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Hi,

I have seen documentary’s about TinTin, Batman, PacMan, many different gods, and Jesus Christ amongst others, all of which are fictional, so yea, you certainly can make a documentary about a fictional character.

~Mex

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Did you ever notice that people who believe in creationism look really un-evolved?

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Jesus isn't Fictional. I know you bought intot he Chist yth crap but, coem off it, he was a Hisorical man.

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hello_happy_fatty »-


THIS is the sort of post that relaly undermines modern Atheism for me.


Startign with the outright declaration that God is fictional is really stupid, it's condesending and proves that, in spie of yoru claim that "Freethibkers" don't want to disbeleive, you relaly do. You've decided that God doens't eist, and what's mroe are flaunting this "fact" and calling yoruself a Frethinkerbecause you say this sort o thing.

Toy've already decied God doens't exist and really don't want to consider you may be wrong, or even seriosuly deal with what God may be.

That alone proves how shallow you are.

And the fact that you came to an IMDb Documentary abotu God in orer to call God a FIctional Character relaly proves you are mor eintereste din rubbign in peopesl faces that God doens't exist than you are open to his existence.




Perhaps they managed to film God, in which case he isn't fictional after all.



Perhaps you sguld realise that this is a logical fallacy, or at leats udnerstand that God dons't have to be the "Manint he Sky" he is oft depicted as.

For example, what if someoen says htye beleive the Theological view of Spinoza? In that case, all fim is film of God.

But I don't expect you to grasp that or have a serious talk abotu it.





Either way, those of us who are freethinkers don't wish to "disbelieve" per se. We just need evidence, and not anecdotal or second-hand "revelation", in order to believe. The improbable — what many people mistakenly call "miracles" — also are not evidence.




Bunk. The whole "Evidence" routine may be part of yorucultural mythos, but in the end you're here ot argue with pepel whobeleive in God and to dismiss what they say so you can have that self fulfilling prophecy abotu hwo much smarter you are than thy are.


This has never been abotu evidence, and frnakly, you are not a Free Thinker.


In fact, the idea that beleiving in God mean syou ar enot a Free Thinker, and beign an Atheist is a prerequisite to Free TThought is itself absurd. You may cal yourself a Fee THinker, and may think "Religiosu peoepl" arenot Free Thinkers, but the Truth is that your just another Militant Athist who has yoru ownDogmas you won't quesiton, and penty of peopel do beleive in God and still maintain Freedom of Thought.






If "He" wants more believers, "He" should give us reason to believe.



Not really.


In the end this is roe abotu you beign a self descibed Fee Thinker, which you udnertsand as rjectign Christainity and beign an Atheist. If God was revealed in such a way that it'd be next to imposible to deny that God existed, tou'd just move on to the usual crap abotu how he is not worhy of worhip, ect... its a gimmick.





For example, after Jesus was executed, he apparently came back to life. Why didn't he hang around to continue teaching? Who would doubt a 2000-year-old man?





You would, for starters. Because when all is said and sone, you arne't so much an Atheist becuse you "merely lack beleif in a god" due to a lack fo evidence, yoru a critic of Christainity whose motivation is not findign Truth, but findign fault.


And you'd always find a way to do that.







Those who insist "faith" is sufficient are charlatans who use the faith of others for personal enrichment and power.




Faith means cnfidence of Trust, and not everyon who "Uses Faith" is a Charlatain using the Faith o others tfor personal gain. Heck, even if I accepted the ludecrous idea of Faith as beleif withotu evidence, how can peopel who sincelrey have Faiht be merley usign it to exploit others? And how can peopel exploit the faith of others if they themselves have it?


This is a blanket condemnation that in the end proves my above point, you're just here ot bash Christianity and Theism, you are not tryign to be Reasonable.





It is not fact until proven. A large number of people willing to believe in fictions does not make them factual.



And just because you declare somethign to be Fictional doens't mena it is. Just liek sayign you are a Freethinker doens't mean you actually are a Free Thinker, or sayign you only disbeleive out of a lakc of evidnece means you ony disbeleive out of a lakc of evidence.


I'd say yoru own Religion is Fictional, right down tot he reort tht you have no Religion.

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