MovieChat Forums > In Search of the Perfect Human Diet (2013) Discussion > Flawed logic used throughout and goes fr...

Flawed logic used throughout and goes from One extreme to another


The entire documentary is all built on flawed logic, flawed assumptions
and flawed conjectures.

basic gist is, since evolution and history says that for 99.9% of human
history we humans have been hunter gatherers, our diet should be like
that.

But that is a very flawed way of thinking. Just because our ancestors
were meat eaters doesn't mean meat is better than vegetables for us.
Our ancestors were not exactly optimizing their potential, just because
they were living like animals.

Evolution does not create perfect scenarios and perfect species of
perfect health, that is a fallacy this documentary is based on. It
assumes our ancestors were eating a diet, that they had perfectly
evolved into. Which is not the case.

While i agree with half the documentary (the half condemning modern
diet of processed foods), the other half of it is a load of pile of
false truths and false logics.

I present here some of these flaws the documentary ignores.

1) Our ancestors no doubt starved many months, many weeks, many days of
the year, through winter, when they could not find hunt food to the
point where many no doubt died. This documentary completely ignores
this fact when promoting this high meat diet theory.

2) Our ancestors also ate insects, larvae, and other unhealthy and
disgusting things, at no point do they start promoting a diet of
insects. Which again is another example of picking and choosing
history.

3) Our ancestors also didn't bath or clean themselves at all. No one
would say poor hygiene and living and eating like a wild dog is better
for us, just because our ancestors did it for millions of years. So why
use the same premise for dieting?

4) another example since our ancestors never exercised and only exerted
themselves when hunting, optimal health means we should not exercise
unless chasing a deer. Which they probably only did once a month for a
few minutes and only in large groups.

5) historically human societies have been fishermen rather than
hunters. This a fact the video ignores, as game food was not guaranteed
whist fish from the ocean or rivers largely was. Thus most
civilizations were situated on coastlines and near rivers.

Ultimately the point is, our ancestors did not have an optimal best
perfect diet, trying to mimic them is like trying to copy a C student
in an exam, you are not going to better a better grade.

This is the poor logic used in this DVD, which is flawed.

If you look at native aborigine populations in south America, Australia
who are following very much our ancestors diet, and look at the
athletes from the Olympics, anyone with half a brain can tell that the
athletes in the Olympics are healthier and better. Whilst the aborigine
population are sickly and poorly malformed, malnourished, etc.

Our ancestors also rarely lived beyond 40, average lifespan was
probably around in the late 30's. so evolution hasn't engineered the
paleo-primal diet to exactly keep our body ship shape beyond 40 (going
by their own logic).

So that's another flaw in using the logic of our ancestors diet is
evolutionary wise the best for us. Frankly documentary is a load of
baloney.

But they are right in that the paleo-primal diet is a million times
better than the modern processed sugar, salt, spices, oils artificial
chemical diet we have in the 21st century.

But they need to De-emphasise the meat intake, as our ancestors if
anything like normal hunter gatherers would most likely have not had
much meat in their diet as consistently as modern lifestyles or the
paleo-primal diet likes to infer. As you can't exactly catch and cook a
deer with a spear 3 times a day.

Even lions eat only once a week in the wild, sometimes once a month
periodically, and even starve when the herd migrates. As hunting eating
food isn't exactly on the dot, breakfast, lunch, tea and dinner time
like we have made nowadays.

Saying completely no to wheat is a fallacy as no doubt our ancestors
must have eaten wild grain, in order for them to become farmers of the
stuff. So it was part of their diet, which documentary ignores.

For those who want a healthy diet, its simple.

0) Eat LESS than 1/3 food, 1/3 water and leave AT LEAST 1/3rd of your
stomach empty when having any meal.
1) Eat 1-2 meals a day no more. Restricted calorie intake is normal for
humans and the human body is built on it. It falls apart if we overeat.
2) Fast one month a year where you do not eat drink sunrise to sunset, so
giving your body a detox, change up.
3) Fast a few days spread out of every month 5-15days where you do not
eat or drink sunrise to sunset, same reason.
4) Eat a diet high in water based products, in other words e.g. vegetables
mainly and natural fruits (not selectively bred factory farmed fruits),
this will make up 70-80% of your diet, with vegetables making up the
bulk of it.
5) then complement this with small portions of grain, meat
and very little dairy. Maybe 1 portion a week for meat (fish
preferably). 0.5 for dairy. 2 for grains (wholegrain like brown wheat).
That is if you want your organs to function beyond 50.
6) No alcohol, no benefit to body whatsoever, that cannot be achieved through other means.
7) Avoid sugar, Drastically avoid processed foods (only good
advice in documentary), avoid meat, avoid dairy, avoid sauces,
condiments, avoid selectively bred fruits with high sugar content etc.
This leaves you with the vegetables, natural fruits, nuts, and fish as
main meat in your diet. Which is a very good diet.

If you want to be a body builder obviously eat more carbs, meat and
dairy as a proportion of your diet well as 3-4 meals a day. but you'll
probably die around 60-70 with health problems.

Eating meat isn't going to solve your sinus problems, the guy is a fool
to suggest that correlation in the video. Avoiding dairy products most
likely will.

These truths (as i see them) are obvious to me.

All we have to do is look at the diets of east Asians like Japanese,
Chinese, Koreans in villages, compared to diets of people like Indians,
and westerners Americans in cities. Look at their health differences,
average life span, cancer rates, organ failures, diabetes, cancer etc.

reply

Cool agenda driven story, bro.

I'll send you a cheque for $10 if you can list all the logical fallacies and baseless assertion you hit here.

reply

Just because our ancestors were meat eaters doesn't mean meat is better than vegetables for us.


What the paleo diet is saying, is that humans need both vegetables and meat for optimal health, humans are neither carnivores or herbivores, we are omnivores.


Our ancestors no doubt starved many months, many weeks, many days of
the year, through winter, when they could not find hunt food to the
point where many no doubt died. This documentary completely ignores
this fact when promoting this high meat diet theory.


Fasting is part of the paleo mindset, and i agree this could have been part of the documentary.

Our ancestors also ate insects, larvae, and other unhealthy and
disgusting things, at no point do they start promoting a diet of
insects. Which again is another example of picking and choosing
history.

Not all insects are unhealthy, im sure there is great health benefits to eating insects, in some places around the world they still do it. Though I do agree that the documentary has too little emphasis on things like offal and fish. Steaks are great, but they dont have as many micro nutrients as liver and kidneys. Also the documentary could have focused more on the importance of eating grass fed animals, and not grain fed.

Our ancestors also didn't bath or clean themselves at all. No one
would say poor hygiene and living and eating like a wild dog is better
for us, just because our ancestors did it for millions of years. So why
use the same premise for dieting?


Yes they did. Also there is this thing called the Hygiene hypothesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis), it postulates that the extremely clean living of modern humans might be the cause of loads of diseases and allergies.

another example since our ancestors never exercised and only exerted
themselves when hunting, optimal health means we should not exercise
unless chasing a deer. Which they probably only did once a month for a
few minutes and only in large groups.

This is just ridiculous. Guess what the main form of transportation was for paleolithic man? walking! Is the animals your hunting migrating south? you better move with them! Do you think every single hunt was successful? Do you think the wild game was just right outside the cave, just conveniently waiting for you to come and poke a spear in it, like some 7/11 right around the block? Even if you had to go gather fruits, honey, nuts, seeds and other vegetables, you had to walk for miles and climb trees and dig for edible roots.


historically human societies have been fishermen rather than
hunters. This a fact the video ignores, as game food was not guaranteed
whist fish from the ocean or rivers largely was. Thus most
civilizations were situated on coastlines and near rivers.

Eating fish is paleo! Also paleo is about pre-civilization. Big human settlements cant be supported solely by hunter gathering ways of getting food, thats why no big cities existed before agriculture, and agriculture benefits from access to water. And fishing, along with animal husbandry, is a great source of stable protein and fat for a large permanent settlement. Paleolithic man didnt live like that, they lived in small mobile communities.

Our ancestors also rarely lived beyond 40, average lifespan was
probably around in the late 30's. so evolution hasn't engineered the
paleo-primal diet to exactly keep our body ship shape beyond 40 (going
by their own logic).

They died early because they lacked modern medicine and were exposed to the weather and wild like we can never imagine. Actually the life expectancy of paleolithic man was relatively high and didnt get surpassed until the industrial revolution. Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy#Life_expectancy_variation_over_time


But they need to De-emphasise the meat intake, as our ancestors if
anything like normal hunter gatherers would most likely have not had
much meat in their diet as consistently as modern lifestyles or the
paleo-primal diet likes to infer. As you can't exactly catch and cook a
deer with a spear 3 times a day.

Did you even see the documentary? what about analyses of bones, that proved that animal protein had been a big part of the paleo diet?

reply

The diet you propose is so bad, it's laughable.

Grain and meat only once a week? Where do you et your energy from? Veggies are on average 70 cals per 100 grams. To meet my need of 2500 cals I would have to eat 3 kilograms of veggies per day. At the two meals per day you propose that's 1.5 kilograms per meal...sorry, but I could not eat that if I tried.

And what about protein? For a healthy amount of muscle mass you need a gram per kilogram body weight. For me at 100 kilograms of weight that is 100 g per day. How am I supposed to do that with veggies?

While I do not agree with the diet proposed in the movie, you are way of track, too.

reply

That has to be THE dumbest comment on IMDB in a long time...

Kilograms??? Where are you from?

reply

Not saying people must be vegetarians, but yes, you can get all the protein you need from a vegetarian diet. It takes more imagination and preparation, though. Beans with rice - an old recipe that's been eaten for who knows how long. Reason is...beans plus rice = a complete protein, WITH complex carbs built in. The perfect meal, you could say.

To get a complete protein, you eat a veggie protein source (all beans and some other things), add a complex carb (which also has enzymes). So you get a complete protein. It's easy.

You don't get an insulin reaction because of the protein and very high fiber in the meal.

A high protein diet is lacking in anti-oxidants and certain vitamins and minerals.

I guess the answer is a balanced diet. But you can't get all the body needs from an Atkins or meat based diet. It's not possible. You CAN get all the body needs from a vegetarian diet. (Side note: Atkins died at 73 from a heart attack.)

Also, meat these days is loaded with toxins. When you eat a cow, you also eat all the bad stuff the cow ate, which concentrates in her body. Ever heard the expression "eat low on the chain"? It's also not environmentally good, since it takes a lot of resources to produce one pound of meat vs. one pound of grain or veggies or fruit. It's inefficient.

But we are humans. We don't have to eat like cavemen. We have brains and compassion for a reason, I would think. If killing and eating an animal is disturbing to some people, it is perfectly normal not to do that. That's why we have high-level brains and a compassionate gene. And nature has said that yes, we can do that and still get everything our body needs.

reply

It takes more imagination and preparation, though. Beans with rice - an old recipe that's been eaten for who knows how long. Reason is...beans plus rice = a complete protein, WITH complex carbs built in. The perfect meal, you could say.

To get a complete protein, you eat a veggie protein source (all beans and some other things), add a complex carb (which also has enzymes). So you get a complete protein. It's easy.


You're making it overly complicated. Any vegan diet gives you plenty of protein. Protein deficiency is virtually nonexistent amongst vegans.

reply

> since evolution and history says that for 99.9% of human history
> we humans have been hunter gatherers, our diet should be like that.

You disagree with that, but you have no argument against it or for you point of view.
Odd. The fact that we evolved eating a certain diet certainly does mean that we have
adapted to it, or for it.

Our ancestors did not starve at all, and you do not know what you are talking about.
Read some of Jared Diamond's books. The average hunter-gatherer was better fed,
had better emotional security, was not as low on the pecking order, or as stressed,
and was taller, stronger and lived longer than when humans began to farm, eat
carbohydrates and fight against each other for land.

What you are comparing, in terms of hunter gatherers is the remnants of the hunter-
gatherer world after the farmers took all the good land and warred on each other and
the hunter gathers ... and it says nothing about diet, only victory at war and a hierarchical
politically based life or stress.

So after making your poor arguments, then you go in to pushing your own view, that you
have no backup for other than your opinion. The problem with human beings all over is
that they get ideas in their heads and have no way to evaluate them objectively, they are
driven by emotion.

It's sad that people come here not to review movies, but to push their own ideas. It's
OK, good idea to have a place to chat about ideas, but you do not have to attack a
movie and an idea you do not fully understand to do it.

reply

"Just because our ancestors were meat eaters doesn't mean meat is better than vegetables for us" - It DID NOT say that!

"Evolution does not create perfect scenarios and perfect species of perfect health" - It never said that they were PERFECT.

I kind of stopped reading there as it seems that you didn't approach the film with an open mind. Sure, of course, things could be taken literally or be open to more thorough thinking.

Did you even see the part where people were eating a whole load of fish?

reply

[deleted]

No food is bad, per se. But your list of what you ate instead of meat (pasta, rice, wheat bread, cereal, yogurt and orange juice) shows that you weren't eating healthy and may not have researched healthy eating beforehand.

Orange juice is almost 100% sugar, less healthy than eating an orange, since the FIBER is missing. Yogurt, unless it's plain with nothing added, has sweeteners added. The only cereal I know of that doesn't have sugar is Shredded Wheat. Maybe Grape Nuts...I'm not sure. Most others have sugar listed as an ingredient in one of the first five ingredients, which means that SUGAR is one of the main ingredients of the cereal. All wheat breads are not the same. You're supposed to eat 100% wheat bread, made with "whole wheat flour" (you have to look at the label), WITH ADDED FIBER. I eat wheat bread that is 50 calories a slice, with 5 grams of fiber. I don't eat much bread, though.

Pasta - gotta be careful with that. It's loaded with calories. And of course it should be whole grain pasta. Having the added fiber of whole grain cuts the insulin reaction to carbs and helps decrease the caloric effect. Fiber is important.

Seems like you switched from a high protein-high fact diet to the opposite end of the spectrum: high-carb, high-sugar. Only you didn't realize it.

The problem with high protein diets is that unless you make sure to eat fruits & veggies, you aren't getting the anti-oxidants your body needs. This helps resist cancer and curbs free radicals. Beef is now linked to causing cancer.

I wouldn't link eggs with beef, though. Two totally separate things.

reply

[deleted]