How Frozen won over this I will never understand. - Kaze tachinu (2014) Discussion

You should blame whoever in Disney who decided to nominated this alongside with 'Frozen'.

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[–] CheyShi 10 years ago

That was a mess up on their part.
And I'm not discrediting Frozen, I actually enjoyed it quite a lot, but I was just more moved by TWR. In regards to the usual style of the two studios, I saw this film as a bigger move into trying to do something different.

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[–] mikexx 10 years ago

Frozen was the most pedestrian effort by Disney in years. Auto-pilot. Phoned-it-in. Paint-by-numbers. "Let's take a vanilla princess plot, give it one twist, and stuff website vote-tallies with hundreds of fake 10-star ratings!"

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[–] PreachCaleb 10 years ago

Absolutely agreed.

It was just average Disney. And not in a good way.

Can't stop the signal.

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[–] Marjeez 10 years ago

This isn't a Disney film.. so... yeah.

~RANKING 2014 FILMS~
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Last seen: Noah (9/10)

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] Marjeez 10 years ago

Okay?

~RANKING 2014 FILMS~
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Last seen: Noah (9/10)

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] Marjeez 10 years ago

Okay?

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Last seen: Nymphomaniac Vol II (9/10)

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[–] Szabu 10 years ago

Maybe because Frozen it... great?

I'm not even trying to make fun of you, but same here, I've never been moved so much by a Disney movie since Hunchback of Notre Dame. Imo Frozen is easily their best work in a long while, and the best CGI animated movie yet.

And because you ask, yes, I am actually a pretty hue Miyazaki fan. Shame on me for loving both, right?

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[–] MisterKorman 10 years ago

Have you watched The Wind Rises?
Frozen may be great, but The Wind Rises was amazing.

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[–] Szabu 10 years ago

No, not yet, because it's not out in my country yet in theaters (only on 16 April), but it'd have to be REALLY good (like, Miyazaki's top 3 material) to be better than Frozen imo. And given the source material, I just don't know how that would work out.

And besides, this is one of the cases when paving the way forward deserves an award on the top of quality. Frozen is progressive in both story, characterization and animation. For the first time even, characters in a Western CGI animated movie feel like real people rather than plastic dolls.

The Wind Rises is probably great as well, I'm pretty sure I'd like it (the trailer certainly looks amazing), but it doesn't feel all that new or groundbreaking. And Miyazaki already has an Oscar. For Disney, it was the first time.

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[–] MisterKorman 10 years ago

It's definitely in the Top 3 (with Howl's Moving Castle & Spirited Away). It triggered an emotional response that I don't think I've experienced in an animated movie in years.

For the first time even, characters in a Western CGI animated movie feel like real people rather than plastic dolls.

Except for Tangled (and the real people in Wreck-it Ralph). Tangled and Frozen use the exact same animation styles and Frozen seems to be using slightly altered character models from Tangled.

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[–] Szabu 10 years ago

Well, I guess I'll have to see for myself (for the record, my favorites of Miyazaki are Lauputa, Nausicaa and Mononoke).

As for Tangled, I don't know, while it was a huge step in the right direction, it still didn't feel quite as organic as their 2D movies in the 90's. Maybe it's their skin that was too clear, maybe it's their movements, I don't really know, but... something just didn't click for me as well as with Frozen.

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[–] MisterKorman 10 years ago

Was Castle in the Sky any good? It's one of the only Ghibli films I haven't seen.

As for Tangled, I don't know, while it was a huge step in the right direction, it still didn't feel quite as organic as their 2D movies in the 90's. Maybe it's their skin that was too clear, maybe it's their movements, I don't really know, but... something just didn't click for me as well as with Frozen.

Fair enough! Sorry for pressing it so far. Most people just get blindly irritated, so it's nice to see that some people can explain their opinions so well as opposed to freaking out.

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[–] Szabu 10 years ago

All right then :) No broblem, I like a good discussion.

Anyway, Castle in the Sky is really, really good in my opinion. One that may be filled with fantasy tropes (if you played some Japanese RPGs from the 90's and early 2000's, you'll know what to expect from the story) but it has such a passion and energy that's rarely seen. Similar to Nausicaa in many ways.

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[–] drmohamedosama88 10 years ago

Yes, Castle in the Sky is amazing . you should definitely watch it.
Take is as a great advice from watch any movie Hayao Miyazaki has directed . Thad dude doesn't make bad movies at all.

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[–] MisterKorman 10 years ago

Since I was last here, I've seen it. It was pretty incredible.

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[–] Calick 10 years ago

It's called "art style". The same way that many characters from Studio Ghibli movies look similar. It's not necessarily a bad thing, just that every studio uses their own style, it's their trademark and the one they feel most comfortable with.

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[–] Zakito 10 years ago

For the first time even, characters in a Western CGI animated movie feel like real people rather than plastic dolls.

Personally I felt that it wasn't exactly that much like real people, Shrek was the first that made me feel 3D animation is close to looking like humans(especially the anatomy), while Brave was a groundbreaking in terms of the technical aspect.
In fact I felt that Frozen was not made to look like humans, but rather to appear cutesy to appeal to children.

Darling really, watch The Wind Rises, it's rather different from Miyazaki's usual style, but definitely in the top 3 out of all his works.
It's a marvellous masterpiece of not just animation, but film making.
I feel that this is a movie that has to be added to the library of films people need to remember and watch once in their life time, I'm sure you'll love it too.

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[–] Szabu 10 years ago

I'm not necessarily talking about the anatomy, but... I don't know, their movements I guess (or maybe their skin). I mean, 2D animated characters aren't anatomically realistic either, but they feel like real people when they move, and it's essential to convey emotions, something which (imo) Frozen did wonderfully.

As I said, I will watch The Wind Rises at mid-April when it finally gets a theatrical release here in Hungary. I saw the trailer and I'm really looking forward to it :)

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[–] Zakito 10 years ago

I think it's got something to do with the 12 principles of animation, it's easier to follow the principles in 2D because while drawing the artist is constantly checking whether are the movements smooth and realistic, and do corrections promptly, while in 3D it's slightly harder to keep track because computer takes a while to load for the full animation to be played out smoothly, and so it's not an immediate thing for the animator to correct it.
I do agree that the movements in Frozen are smoother than the previous 3D animated films Disney had done, it's great to see Disney back on track and carry on Walt Disney's spirit to being the frontier of animation. 8D

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[–] jutuomin 10 years ago

I have not seen Frozen so I really cannnot say anything about it.
But I have seen The Wind Rises. I think it's a really well animated film, while boring and blant as the story goes on. I for one though this would be a very interesting film, because I study mechanical engineering and aeroplane engineering is a great subject to have (And Porco Rosso is so much better a film!).

And Miyazaki already has an Oscar. For Disney, it was the first time.

But for Disney having its first Oscar is just something I don't agree with. It's amazingly incorrect statements. I believe that Disney has probably won the most Oscars from any studios. With a small search I found out at least 50 Disney films that have won an Oscar and some of them have probably won in several categories. Walt Disney alone has 23 Oscar wins (which 1 is posthumous).

Here is what I have been using as a source:
http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Academy_Award_winning_films
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Academy_Awards_for_Walt_Disney

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[–] Szabu 10 years ago

I correct my statement: It is Disney's first Oscar in the "Best animated feature category".

But that huge number is kind of misleading, since nearly all of them are short animated films from the 30s to the 60s, and frankly, there wasn't a very strong competition in the "animated shorts" category.

As for the actual feature films, the first couple won some Oscars, then nothing for decades. Then in the 90s, some of the Renaissance movies won a few for their music... and now there is Frozen.

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] eviltimes 10 years ago

How wonderful it is that I never have to read your foolishness again. CLICK!

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[–] donotdisturbx9 10 years ago

As much as I loved The Wind Rises it was far from Oscar-worthy.

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[–] Insomniatic102 10 years ago

It was one of the best movies to come out this year, it deserves to be in the best movie category.

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[–] jdkraus 10 years ago

The Wind Rises is on my top 10 of 2013.

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[–] MisterKorman 10 years ago

I agree. At the Oscars, they normally play it safe. They normally pick whichever film gets the most praise and buzz.
I'm assuming that's what you mean.

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[–] Zakito 10 years ago

Strangely that's the opposite from what I had noticed over the years.
Oscar tend to avoid commercial films, films that are overly mainstream(eg. Superheroes), I do agree on the most praises part though, critics' opinion seems very important on the decision.

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[–] collinfrey26 10 years ago

I feel the same. The Wind Rises kept me completely absorbed in its original story and beautiful animation. Meanwhile I was actually kind of waiting for Frozen to end. It was not bad, it was just made for children. The jokes weren't funny to adults and the music wasn't integrated very well.

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[–] super-staff 10 years ago

The Wind Rises kept me completely absorbed in its original story and beautiful animation.

It was a good movie, but not Miyazaki/Studio Ghibli's best.

Meanwhile I was actually kind of waiting for Frozen to end. It was not bad, it was just made for children.

Yes, because the Ghibli films are only for 'mature' adults such as yourself?

The jokes weren't funny to adults and the music wasn't integrated very well.

You're either too 'holier than thou' to enjoy it or you have poor comprehension skills. I know that sounds kind of harsh but being butthurt and whiny that Frozen won over the movie you preferred is obnoxious.

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[–] Block-Busted 10 years ago

Yes, because the Ghibli films are only for 'mature' adults such as yourself?

He's forgetting the fact that there are several Ghibli films that definitely were geared for children and families:
-Laputa: Castle in the Sky (though this was more like an 'Indiana Jones' type of film)
-My Neighbor Totoro
-Kiki's Delivery Service
-Whisper of the Heart
-The Cat Returns
-Howl's Moving Castle
-Ponyo
-Arrietty

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[–] super-staff 10 years ago

Yep, which is pretty much nearly everything they've put out.

There were kids in the audience in the theater I went to, and while I don't know what they thought of it exactly, it's not like they were restless and bored like I've seen in other movies.

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[–] Block-Busted 10 years ago

Oh, and furthermore, these Ghibli films will have Disney logos attached for future release:
-Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind
-Laputa: Castle in the Sky
-My Neighbor Totoro
-Kiki's Delivery Service
-Porco Rosso
-Pom Poko
-Whisper of the Heart
-Princess Mononoke (While originally released by Miramax, Disney still seems to have a distribution right for this one.)
-My Neighbors the Yamadas
-Spirited Away
-The Cat Returns
-Howl's Moving Castle
-Tales from Earthsea
-Ponyo
-Arrietty
-When Marnie Was There (This one is an upcoming release, and I'm pretty sure it will have Disney logo attached onto it. The source material is a children's novel after all.)

Here are films that have logos other than Disney logo:
-Grave of the Fireflies (Sentai Filmworks)
-From Up on Poppy Hill (GKIDS)
-The Wind Rises (Touchstone)

I'm not sure about these:
-Only Yesterday (Disney has the rights, but it hasn't been released yet.)
-The Ocean Waves (I presume that it has a same situation with 'Only Yesterday'.)
-The Tale of Princess Kaguya (Somehow, Fox Searchlight is getting associated with this one, but I don't know if that's actually going to be the case.)

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[–] egy-1 10 years ago

WTF are you people talking about? La grande bellezza won over this!

ps: I'm italian and I'm *beep* sorry we won with that piece of *beep* of a movie.

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[–] super-staff 10 years ago

Wtf are YOU talking about?

You got the wrong category, genius. Frozen and The Wind Rises were nominated for best animated films, not foreign language films.

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[–] Block-Busted 10 years ago

He's probably talking about Golden Globes.

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[–] super-staff 10 years ago

But the topic's about the Oscars, nonetheless. Oh well.

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[–] collinfrey26 10 years ago

I think that there is a difference between making a film that is appropriate for children and making a children's film. A lot of times, when setting out to make films kids can watch, writers tend to underestimate how much a kid can understand. Therefore, they tend to write cheap jokes and plots that do not try to utilize the intelligence kids have. While Frozen was not a "stupid movie," I felt that it did not think kids were mature enough to handle any sort of emotions. On the other hand, Studio Ghibli films, like Spirited Away and My Neighbor Totoro, treat younger audience members as if they are mature. The characters in these films experience very real emotions; I believe that is an important factor for kids to see in movies. That was really what I meant to say.

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[–] seraph-eatos77 10 years ago

The Wind Rises was a masterpiece, but it just isn't marketable or appealing to American audiences.

Let's not forget that the Academy members didn't even watch most of the animated nominees and went with Frozen because it was made by Disney, crossed the one billion mark, and has an iconic song to boot.

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[–] ruly 10 years ago

uh..dude some of the joke on frozen is for adult. Children will not notice it.Like foot size joke? (Anna said it doesn't matter). I was like wtf? there is one other dik joke but i can't remember. But my 3 & 5 years old kid love this movie so much sometime the played it twice in the row. I don't mind it, the song very catchy.
Back to the wind rises. I watched it when it played in my country, and it was very beautiful. The wind rises every time for me. Oscar or no oscar.

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[–] DanielMann861 10 years ago

Very simple reason why it didn't win. It pissed off the right and the left. And we all know that Hollywood is basically as liberal as you can get.

Frozen was ultimately the safe pick, its popular, its the safe pick all around. I'm not bitching or moaning. I knew there was no chance that The Wind Rises was going to take it home even though I think it is the better movie of the two.

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[–] egy-1 10 years ago

LoL YOU RIGHT, SORRY?

Still sorry for THE GREAT *beep*

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[–] Jangobadass 10 years ago

I'm actually okay with it.

Better it losing to Frozen than The Croods or *shudder* Despicable Me 2. If had lost to one of those, then I'd be upset.

If it had to lose, I'm happy it lost to a worthy foe instead of something vastly inferior

Being a fan means being unashamed of what you like, no matter what anyone else says

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[–] tom245-32-153383 10 years ago

Despicable Me 2 was just plain bad. It's the most advertised film in film history and it's getting on my nerves. Everytime I saw a minion I wanted to punch it in the face. I eventually saw it to see what the fuss was about, and I found it half-assed and poorly made. They suck at continuity, the story is all over the place,and it wasn't funny. I haven't seen Frozen yet. The Croods was surprisingly alright. The animation wasn't great, but I found it quite a fun movie.

NEVER take the Academy seriously. A Japanese film winning any award which isn't 'Best Film not in the English Language', would be miraculous. Am I calling them racist? Nope, just narrow-minded, biased and stupidly patriotic.

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[–] Psinex6 10 years ago

The reason is actually a lot more simple than that. Animation in the United States is not taken seriously as an adult's form of entertainment. Not to the extent that the industry would reward a film such as The Wind Rises.

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[–] johnsmithbattlenet 10 years ago

no one cares about these wierd-ass japanese cartoons (animes as you nerds refer to them as). the only reason these are popular are BECAUSE they are japanese-made, not for the sake of their content, which it should be based on. I didn't even know this crap was nominated. I assume they had to waste a seat in the auditorium for Miyazaki, the creator of this garbage, which is very unfortunate.

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[–] Arkoth 10 years ago

http://i.imgur.com/f0AoMPG.gif

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[–] chees11 10 years ago

Hahaha, that's rich. Go back to troll school, sonny Jim.

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[–] wildchild-pramanik666 10 years ago

no one cares about these wierd-ass japanese cartoons (animes as you nerds refer to them as). the only reason these are popular are BECAUSE they are japanese-made, not for the sake of their content, which it should be based on. I didn't even know this crap was nominated. I assume they had to waste a seat in the auditorium for Miyazaki, the creator of this garbage, which is very unfortunate.

hello hello all, we have an academy award winner for stupidity and ignorance.... Johny boy over here... somebody chuck that award at him so he gets a concussion and can give an excuse for his superior dumbassery... i mean really... maybe learn something about the guy you are bashing before starting to form an opinion, you waste of human skin

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[–] jimmyr5595 10 years ago

If Despicable Me 2 can get nominated, anything can win that award... however, The Wind Rises was amazing as a film in general. I haven't seen Frozen yet.

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[–] rayanrafay 10 years ago

I 100% agree with you. The Wind Rises and anything by Miyazaki is on another level than the mediocrity that was Frozen.

Frozen, to me does not even compare to 'Up' or 'Toy Story' which are genuine American animated classics.

With respect to Frozen and Disney in general there is far too many pop culture references in all their works for them to be timeless. Meanwhile, I think my hypothetical grandchildren could watch 'The Wind Rises' in 50 years and appreciate it. Timeless theme, message, content, and writing.

SPOILER ON FROZEN:

I was hoping Frozen would be unconventional, instead the Prince ends up being evil, and that makes it okay for Anne to fall for the Ice guy. What is the lesson to children? You get engaged but its okay, because the guy was evil anyway?

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[–] emvan 10 years ago

There's no question that The Wind Rises is the better film, but Frozen was legitimately great as well (I've given them a 94 and 90 respectively). In fact, critics gave them both a 7.8 (the Rotten Tomatoes "average rating" which is actually a better judge of a movie's critical reception than the big RT score -- it more closely matches IMDB scores, critics' top 10 list mentions, or, for that matter, my own scores and the scores Netflix predicts for me).

The visually stunning Wind played for one week in LA and NY, subtitled, and otherwise was seen by Academy members via screener disks.

The visually impressive Frozen played forever in 3D and was probably seen by many Academy members in the theater, with their grandkids / kids.

I saw Wind on a huge art-house screen, and Frozen in 2D, late in its run, on a typical multiplex screen. If I had seen Frozen in 3D on a cineplex's biggest screen and Wind at home, I'm not sure that they wouldn't have moved and engaged me about equally, or that Frozen wouldn't have moved me more. And that's without adding hypothetical nonexistent small descendents in tow, being adorable!

Conclusion: they opened Wind in LA knowing they had little chance at an Oscar; they wanted it to be an Oscar nom at around the time they opened it wide.

I'm just pissed that after winning the Oscar, Frozen isn't coming back in 3D anywhere. I'd see it again if it did.

Prepare your minds for a new scale of physical, scientific values, gentlemen.

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