You people know this is all fake, right? - The Dead Files (2011) Discussion

[–] Lauren685 9 years ago

First of all, I don't really believe in this stuff and the Amy woman is not believable.

But....most these shows are filmed in America, so there wouldn't be Roman soldier ghost here, plus America is fairly young country...so there wouldn't be a lot of ancient ghost except native Americans...

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[–] GameofMoans 9 years ago

I'm not just talking about this show. I'm talking about all these paranormal garbage shows and about the idea of ghosts as real. They aren't real and if they were why is it they all come from the same era of recent history(relatively speaking of course).

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[–] Clemencedane 9 years ago

I've heard of people in the U.K. seeing Roman ghosts, but I do take your point. This show is especially ludicrous.

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[–] kurtbrian14 9 years ago

Actually I encountered a ghost, so I know ghosts existence. I haven't seen credible evidence that this team is telling lies.

Amy Allan is known by a lot of people in the paranormal community, and I haven't seen these people come out and accuse her of hoaxing.

Steve is a well respected retired NY detective, and I find it hard to believe he'd throw away his reputation on hoaxing. These shows don't pay enough and Steve owns a successful security business, so money motivation is questionable.

I'm not attempting to imply that hoaxers don't exist. I just think we should put away words like, "garbage", and put together irrefutable evidence that fraud is taking place, assuming it is.

Don't believe all the fraud claims you read on the internet about paranormal investigations. Some people are obsessed with claiming the afterlife doesn't exist, and they'll write their own phony stories to push their agenda. Most atheists are good people, but a few do resort to lies to convince people there is no afterlife and people don't have souls.

I'm not suggesting The Dead Files team shouldn't be investigated. I just don't want a crooked investigation to dominate internet assumptions.

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[–] GameofMoans 9 years ago

There is no such thing as a well respected NYC detective.

All kidding aside what agenda do you speak of? I wish these things were real, how cool would that be? Proof of an afterlife is something most atheists would welcome. I sure would. It means we have something to look forward to when our time on this planet is over.

Where is the evidence? The peer reviewed studies? If paranormal acvity is as common as this and other TV shows make it out to be, why the fight against transparency?

Like I said if physics or the paranormal were real why did no one claim the James Randi million dollar prize? It ran for over 20 years! It was well advertised and James Randi is well known to the physic/medium/paranormal community.

All I'm interested in is facts & truth. Did you see a Ghost? Possibly. But what is more likely, you saw the spirit of a dead person or you had a visual/auditory expierence that you can't explain? Something you can't explain doesn't=paranormal. There are millions of variables to consider before "ghost".

Can science explain everything? No! Are there mysteries in the world we can't explain? Yes! Are human beings guilable, manipulative and dishonest? Yes, yes and double yes!

This show and others like it have a jobs to do(entertain you enough so you'll stick around for the commercial). They can't make a paranormal show and have no paranormal events happen. What does that tell you?

Oh and as for this well respected cop? Plenty of people that lie are well respected. Look what happened to Bill Cosby. Look at this show with a critical eye and all you'll see is phoney non-sense

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[–] josephinemuscat 9 years ago

Game of Moans

Did you see a Ghost? Possibly. But what is more likely, you saw the spirit of a dead person or you had a visual/auditory expierence that you can't explain? Something you can't explain doesn't=paranormal.

par·a·nor·mal (păr′ə-nôr′məl)
adj.
Beyond the range of normal experience or scientific explanation.

Who will be first to have their backs against the wall when the revolution comes?

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[–] kurtbrian14 9 years ago

There is no such thing as a well respected NYC detective.

wow...that was mean.

Where is the evidence? The peer reviewed studies? If paranormal acvity is as common as this and other TV shows make it out to be, why the fight against transparency?

There are over 250 established paranormal investigation groups in the U.S. alone. Participate with one if you want answers.

Where is the evidence?

Many of these paranormal groups have web sites that offer the photos or EVP's they've gathered.

The peer reviewed studies?

At universities? Most colleges don't have paranormal science departments. Academic prejudice.

Like I said if physics or the paranormal were real why did no one claim the James Randi million dollar prize? It ran for over 20 years! It was well advertised and James Randi is well known to the physic/medium/paranormal community.

He's not impartial so no groups want to have anything to do with him. Nor was he ever willing to go on paranormal investigations. The one million isn't worth dealing with a bigot. Assuming he even has the money. I wouldn't deal with Randi for any amount of money. He would simply disagree with everything, even if a ghost slapped his face.

There are millions of variables to consider before "ghost".

The people who've told me this, didn't even know how EVP's are gathered, or how ghost boxes work.

(entertain you enough so you'll stick around for the commercial).

Nothing in life is free, but that doesn't assume commercials equal fraud.

Look at this show with a critical eye and all you'll see is phoney non-sense

Please show your irrefutable evidence of fraud.

Look what happened to Bill Cosby.

I knew about Cosby's perversion 15 years ago, and others knew about Cosby long before me. People didn't say anything out of fear of being sued. Can you now offer evidence regarding Steve and Amy? I'll be glad to look into it.

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[–] GameofMoans 9 years ago

The Randi Prize does not involve Randi himself. A 3rd party uses tried and true scientific methods to determine if something is paranormal or not. The prize is as impartial as can be.

Randi, like me, wishes this stuff was real. He wants to be proven wrong. It's just that time and time again all of these so called mediums/physics/healers are shown to be frauds. Watch the documentary called "An Honest Liar". How is Randi a bigot?

All this evidence, EVP or pictures, are easily faked. Easily. If it was that simple to contact the dead EVERYONE WOULD BE DOING IT.
Give me video shot in daylight with no funky editing and then we shall see.

You don't need to belong to a university to submit an article for peer review. Journals will take any peer reviewed discoveries.

Don't you see how much money is being made by this paranormal industry? Look at the amount of television shows that focus on paranormal. They all use the same tactics.

Yes I can offer evidence. If this stuff was real why wouldn't FBI, CIA etc use Steve and Amy as a resource?
Why don't physics play the lottery and win? Steve and Amy are out to make money. End of story.

If this stuff was real we would have quality evidence. Undisputable evidence. Why don't universities offer paranormal courses? Because it's all baloney.

Yes there are mysteries in our world, yes it's scary to think of what happens when we die. But billion upon billions of humans have perished. Why is it these Ghosts aren't everywhere for all of us to see? You'd think they would want to make contact. But no. It's always these spooky old houses/jails/army barracks/light houses. Blah blah blah.

I really wish this stuff was legit. I really do. But come on! These TV shows are for entertainment. They can't very well make a TV show about the paranormal and have nothing happen can they? Of course not. You don't see these shows on network TV do you? Only cable channels. Why is that?

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[–] kurtbrian14 9 years ago

The prize is as impartial as can be.

Under no conditions would the "skeptics" give out this prize money anyway, because they'd never believe anything. So the prize is a phony contest.

Randi, like me, wishes this stuff was real.

No he doesn't. He has very serious anger issues over anything alleged to be paranormal.

It's just that time and time again all of these so called mediums/physics/healers are shown to be frauds.

The general public doesn't share your view or Randi's bias.

You don't need to belong to a university to submit an article for peer review. Journals will take any peer reviewed discoveries.

Starting with a doctorate on the resume, but it's a known fact that university studies get the most attention in professional journals. You're full of it.

Don't you see how much money is being made by this paranormal industry?

There are over 250 well known paranormal groups in the U.S. and most of them work for free. Mediums could work for free, but how would they put food on their table and a roof over their heads. You neglected to explain that one.

I really wish this stuff was legit. I really do. But come on! These TV shows are for entertainment.

You could really impress the hell out of me by joining a legit paranormal investigation group and spending some quality time on their cases. Then you wouldn't have to "wish".

Of course not. You don't see these shows on network TV do you? Only cable channels. Why is that?

Because CBS, NBC and ABC are too busy trying to get people to watch their "reality shows". Reality shows were a trend started on the cable stations like MTV, remember?

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[–] Iamnotasuperhero 8 years ago

Hey Kurt,
I just want to clear something up here.
The onus isn't on a skeptic to prove an extraordinary claim.

I could tell you that right now I am talking to BigFoot, I could tell you how his fur is matted and he speaks in guttural and broken English that he learned from watching over backpackers and hikers.
You would ask me for proof of this and you would be right to do so, because I am making an extraordinary claim.

In this instance, the extraordinary claim is that Amy is in fact talking to ghosts.
It is perfectly reasonable to ask for proof of this.

This is compounded by the fact that hundreds of mediums and psychics have been proven to be false, whilst there has been no credible evidence that there has been one that works.
By credible evidence, I mean things that can be reproduced and verified.

Personally, I am a skeptic that would love there to be more after life.
My ability to have any kind of faith in such things is severely hindered when every psychic has a different "method" of seeing things, or talking to the dead.
Additionally, when EMF detectors get paraded out as if it's the holygrail of ghost hunting, do you even know where that bastion of paranormal technology comes from? Ghost Busters, that's the first instance of this sort of technology, but ever since it's been treated like it's the most common sense thing in the world.
Then we have EVP's, there was a time you had to record things and then play it back, listening to the static for something that vaguely sounds like a word, as technology progressed and we stopped using magnetic tape and recordings held less static for us to listen so intently to, we've had new technology come up throwing messages from radio static instead, the odd word here and there and again nothing ever concrete or verifiable.
Why does it always have to be static, or "orbs" of light, or who knows what else, the reason is because when we see a ghost in high detail, it gets disproven.

I don't doubt you're just going to shrug this off and carry on with your day, but I hope you remember one thing out of this, when Amy or any psychic claims to be talking to the dead, that is the claim that needs to be proven.

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[–] nerevar59 8 years ago

Ghosts DO NOT exist.

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[–] jaxx-meist 9 years ago

I read through the synopsis and I legitimately thought this was an X-Files clone until I came here and saw all the "My God, guys...do you think maybe it's not real?" which is typical of these sorts of American shows...but it still blows me away that you people have trouble distinguishing reality from fiction.

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[–] spudwas 9 years ago

Skeptics run-amok!

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[–] mseancary 9 years ago

I could reply but Kurt explained my position quite well.
I understand you don't believe, but to take the time to come here and spout your opinion smacks of just plain ugliness and a perverted desire to spread it.
Why should you care what we like and/or believe?
Just ... Shhhh.

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] GameofMoans 9 years ago

Say what? I'm not being unkind or mean. Spread what? The truth? Why are you so afraid of someone else's opinion? I don't care what you believe but if I can change someone's mind who is fooled into believing this stuff is real, at least as presented on this show and others like it, then great. People are easily fooled and manipulated. The paranormal industry sucks money from such people all the time.

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[–] at-32785 9 years ago

Why are telling 'the truth' and everyone who believes that the paranormal exists are delusional? I personally have seen, heard and felt many spirits. I know what I saw was something.

No matter what your opinion is, it contradicts what I know is real.

As far as the show is concerned, I have met people like Amy. I have saw them use their talents at work. When you have 6 different psychics walk into a building and all tell you about two spirits up stairs. All their descriptions were the same.

One day you will see something you can't explain away. One day you may hear someone call your name when no one is there. You might feel someone grab your arm that you can't see.

You might then change your opinion. As for myself, I will never be able to deny what I have experienced.

It is real!

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[–] GameofMoans 9 years ago

You say you've seen, felt and heard spirits. What makes you so sure your expierence was a spirit? Why would 6 psychics be needed? Wouldn't 1 be enough? I've seen things I can't explain. But instead of jumping to conclusions and saying what I saw was something from beyond, I use logic to tell me what I experienced has a rational explanation. Perhaps my mind was playing tricks on me, perhaps I witnessed a natural phenomenon but lack the knowledge of its origin & cause. There are many possibilities, a spirit or paranormal occurrence is not one of them. Everyone would be seeing ghosts if this was the case. Trillions upon trillions of people have died on this planet, if spirits were real they'd be everywhere. We'd have indisputable photographic proof. It would be studied at major universities. Why are they so camera shy? Why don't we see them in places where large crowds propagate like Times Square? No it's always anecdotal "I saw it in my bedroom at night". Why aren't highways haunted? Look at how many deaths there are on highways every year! We'd see them all the time. Why is it just humans that have ghosts? Why not dogs, cats, deer, pigs, spiders, flies etc. I mean come on!

There are so many justifications for why these things aren't real. We feel better thinking that there is some mystery left in the world, that there is a point to all this and something to look forward to after we die. This is our heaven, right here, right now. So many people fail to see that. We like to think we are special & unique. So fortune tellers & psychics come along and make a living off these people. Ever heard of cold reading? It's a parlour trick. That's it. That's how they do it

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[–] Lets_talk_about_that 9 years ago

There are so many justifications for why these things aren't real. We feel better thinking that there is some mystery left in the world, that there is a point to all this and something to look forward to after we die. This is our heaven, right here, right now. So many people fail to see that.

Your self-righteousness is incredible.

Unfortunately, you are the one whose thinking is on the way out. You're very similar to a fundamentalist Christian or religious fanatic, but your fundamentalism is for materialism, which is a notion that is, by slow degrees, being seen as erroneous.
There is a lot of evidence for an afterlife out there. Go read some Dr. Ian Stevenson, Dr. Sam Parnia, Dr. Barry Taff, etc.
And what of quantum physics, the discovery that consciousness is literally required to collapse a wave into a particle, to bring "reality" into being.

I'm not going to go through all the evidence for an afterlife (and by extension what we currently consider "paranormal" phenomena, but which should really be called preternatural phenomena), however I'll just say that we are lucky to live in a time when the information is there at our disposal if one seeks it out. I am not talking about charlatans, snake oil salesmen, and BS like Sylvia Browne. I'm talking about evidence and cases written by very educated, intelligent, critically thinking people.

www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-j-winograd/PETA-KILLS-PUPPIES-KITTENS_b_2979220.html

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[–] GameofMoans 8 years ago

Did you really just use Dr. Ian Stevenson as a would be source of enlightenment? The most gullible, confirmation bias laden psychiatric quack in the history of man?(ok perhaps that's a tad overstated). The guy believed everything he was told vis a vis reincarnation. Check out Paul Edwards if you want a serious take down of Stevenson's work.

How am I anything like fundamental Christians? I require proof, they require faith. Those are pretty opposite ends of the spectrum.

If anything the advent and spread of technology has shown there are no such things as ghosts, goblins and vampires. (You rolled your eyes at the latter two examples didn't you? You know those creatures are simply fairytale beings. Yet spirits come from that same imaginary place in the human psyche, yet those you believe in. Hmm). How many people have cameras at an arms reach away on their cellphones? Camera's with video capabilities to boot. Millions upon millions. So I say again sir(or m'am) where is all the proof? The peer reviewed quantifiable proof? Not some anecdotal he said she said baloney. I deal in facts, not wish fulfilment. In the 1800's I might be on your side of the paranormal ideology. But we just know too much these days about the human mind and it's evolution. There are plenty of mysteries left in the world, I'll give you that. Consciousness is a strange thing. Why do we have it? What purpose does it serve? How did it spread to all human-kind in such similar ways. What created the universe? A Big Bang? Ok well what created that? And so on.

I must admit I love having debates/conversation about these topics. It can be a fascinating, educational experience. It's amazing how vast human belief systems are. You think you know what you know & I think I know what I know. But who knows, ya know?

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[–] Iamnotasuperhero 8 years ago

If reality can't exist without consciousness, then reality wouldn't have existed in order for the first consciousness to come into being.

Bringing theoretical physics into a debate on the supernatural is generally a way to obfuscate the argument and claim some sort of science backs you up.
You're doing it wrong.

Lets take a quick look at Schrodingers Cat, the simplest example of observation collapsing a waveform.
So we have a cat, in a box that is either alive or dead, we all know this.
The common misconception is that Quantum Theory indicates that the cat is alive and dead at the same time, by observing the cat we create the reality of the cat being dead or alive.
This is inaccurate, the experiment (and it is a thought experiment remember) says only that we do not know if the cat is alive or dead, not that it is both merely that we do not know.
That is the waveform, the unknowing of the outcome, through observation we have the result, the result still exists whether we observe it or not but we don't create it, just observe it.

Of course, when we take that experiment to the quantum level (really, really, really small) we have particles in flux and through observation we see what state they are in, we didn't create their state through observation, they were already there, we just... made a note of it.
Of course it gets somewhat fuzzy the smaller you get, as we have observed subatomic particles that appear to be locked in position while being observed, but that just means we have something to learn about that particle, not that we are creating the result.
Imagine it like rolling a dice inside an automatic machine, you can beer in and see what the current result is, you didn't create that result you just caught a glimpse of what it was.

You don't have to care about this, but I'll be damned if I let you try and blind the facts with pseudo-science.
Science is about verifiable facts, quantum mechanics is filled with untested theories based upon observations, twisting an unproven theory to fit an agenda does not make it science.

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[–] Lets_talk_about_that 8 years ago

If reality can't exist without consciousness, then reality wouldn't have existed in order for the first consciousness to come into being.

Your use of "reality" above is both ill-defined and meaningless. This is the Dead Files Board and the context of this discussion is an invisible, currently immeasurable "spirit world" contrasted with the physical world of matter i.e. our corporeal reality.
So to answer your poorly thought-out question: a potential implication of quantum physics is that the hard & fast rules of our material universe could not have come into being without it entering first into [someone's] consciousness while it was in a more 'indefinite' state.

It's called the Double Slit Experiment, and yes - observation was shown to eliminate the interference pattern (wave characteristics) of electrons blasted through two slits, and caused it to act as a particle. And yes the notion that observation CAUSES a wave to collapse into "particle-hood" is a legitimate interpretation of the phenomenon.

I am not a "true-believer" - I think a lot of paranormal stuff is not legit, but there ARE things in this world which are inexplicable. I've experienced some of them myself. And the fact that it cannot be reproduced in a lab (why would you ever expect it to - it's not a chemical experiment.), does not mean that it doesn't exist.

For the person above who cast aspersions on Dr. Ian Stevenson, you are wrong. He was a very thorough and skeptical researcher, and highly respected. He was the first person to take note of any potential red-flags or dubiousness in the cases he investigated and his vast collection of reincarnation cases stand as some of the most startling & profound evidence of reincarnation. Also read the book 'Old Souls;' the author began as an extreme skeptic of Dr. Stevenson's findings, and the book is the account of the author's journey w/ Dr. Stevenson on his cases, interviewing him as a journalist and watching his process as he gathered data and investigated cases. The author ends as a believer in Stevenson's work and in reincarnation. It's a very interesting book.

www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-j-winograd/PETA-KILLS-PUPPIES-KITTENS_b_2979220.html

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[–] shadowfax73 8 years ago

However entertaining these reality show are - paranormal or whatever, the one thing that IS real is the fact they're all fake. Once upon a time there used to be shows on Discovery (for example)that told real stories, that didn't treat the viewers like idiots. Then some cretin discovered that if you 'spiced' them up then viewer numbers went up followed by commercial revenue and like a snowball rolling down a mountainside, it keeps getting bigger and bigger and the dollars keep rolling in.

It's fecking tragic that people are being fed this b*llsh*t and are made to believe it's real.

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[–] GameofMoans 8 years ago

This guy(or gal, but I'll assume guy) gets it. It's disgusting what these channels have been reduced to. TLC, Discovery & History Channel use to be flat out amazing. Now it's all paranormal junk crap. When will it end? Probably never.

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[–] GameofMoans 8 years ago

This guy(or gal, but I'll assume guy) gets it. It's disgusting what these channels have been reduced to. TLC, Discovery & History Channel use to be flat out amazing. Now it's all paranormal junk crap. When will it end? Probably never.

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[–] GameofMoans 8 years ago

Bringing theoretical physics into a debate on the supernatural is generally a way to obfuscate the argument and claim some sort of science backs you up.
You're doing it wrong.

Was this comment aimed at me? If so I didn't do anything of the kind. All I said is that there are many unanswered questions that fascinate me. Consciousness is one of them.

If comment wasn't for me then disregard and carry on

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[–] at-32785 9 years ago

Many questions. Six psychics weren't needed. They were all coming to investigate. My point was independently as they entered the house as different times, they all sensed the same thing. They all were very precise. None of these people knew each other or what each other had said. I was greeting them as they entered and they all told me the same thing. Why do we need photographs? I KNOW what I see, hear, feel, smell and sense.

I don't feel the NEED to prove it to anyone. Skeptics feel the need to tell us how wrong we are.

As for spirits other than human, I've encountered dogs and cats.

I've saw spirits in large crowds. I've saw them in parking lots. I've saw them in a store. I've saw them walking on the sidewalk. I've saw them in a church.

I've never saw one in a graveyard though.

As for mediums, I have a many friends who are. I had a friend who past. One evening I mentioned it to medium friend, who had never met this person. She started telling me about this friend with amazing accuracy. It wasn't just general things, but very specific personal things. I was skeptical about mediums until that point.

I know there are some who are frauds and steal money from people. There are the very gifted one who help people. You get both. From your statements they are all frauds, this isn't true.

I know I'll never convince you and I'm not trying to convert you. I'm not saying you are wrong.

You asked the questions, I answered them.

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[–] coldshot89 8 years ago

Don't waste your time as this GameOfMoans character is a troll with fake bravado behind a keyboard trying to lift himself up by putting others down. I'd love him to come to NYC and get tough with some of the cops I know. Forget it, he couldn't last 2 seconds in NYC anyway much less have the brains on how to get there.

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[–] GameofMoans 8 years ago

What? Get tough? A troll? Why am I a troll? Because I hold a different opinion than you I'm a troll? I love NYC, great city. NYPD has had it's fair share of corruption like any other major city but I hold nothing against them. Many brave NYC policemen lost their lives on 9/11 & are heroes.

But what does that have to do with this incredibly fake show?

I'm a terrible fighter by the way so I don't get where you think I come off as tough. You're grandma could probably choke me with her pinky.

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[–] kurt-2000 8 years ago

But what does that have to do with this incredibly fake show?

you have no proof this show is fake or the team members are hoaxers. this is simply what you want to believe.

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[–] GameofMoans 8 years ago

That's the right attitude to have & you are correct! I have no proof! But then again neither does this show, does it? You'd think you would ask for the same out of a television show telling you that ghosts are real and psychics are real, but instead you follow it blindly. Where is their proof?

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[–] TheButlerDidItYes 8 years ago

I don't know if it's real or not but I like this show because it is scary. Plus I like Amy.

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