The majority of posts on this Board are from the uninformed informing the equally uninformed about a subject clearly beyond their ken, validating each other's theories. Is this even a legitimate Message Board? Seriously, what is going ON here?
It's astonishing that so much is said when so little is understood. Then there are the repeat offenders. Literally! *Gobsmacked*
Amen. I read your post and didn't believe it, but after reading two or three of the treads, I understand you. Although it does go without saying that the Internet Movie Database is NOT the place for intellectual conversation.
How was your Limburger, Miss?
Salty as a ripe stinking bishop.
No, indeed. One does not seek intellectually satisfying exchanges on IMDB Message Boards, but even sci-fi Boards have more reality to them than this one. I think what astounds is the sheer VOLUME of ignorant rants followed by the prolific posting of said ranters.
The neverending pre-occupation with Muslim women and our hijab, the obvious lack of real-world knowledge versus TV/Media/Hollywood gained 'knowledge' being spewed as facts. The absurd ramblings of posters who've never even been inside a masjid(mosque), been to the countries they readily criticize with tremendous authority, walked side by side chatting with a Muslim friend, etc are just baffling . It's all quite surreal.
In light of this, why not contribute some posts that will inform people, sister? Start some threads, respond to questions, whatever you feel like doing. I'm a Bahá'í, and not only do I get a lot of questions about my own faith, but many about Islam as well, since we recognize Muhammad (PBBUH) as a Messenger of God :) IMDB is actually a great forum for educating people, since it gets so much traffic. Don't let the ignorance and trolls discourage you. There are also plenty of people who are genuinely curious and looking for correct information! Something to consider. God bless :)
I understand what you're saying, I really do and I would agree with you. It's just been disheartening to see the number of absurd posts on this Board. The majority don't WANT to learn from us about who we are. They have their prejudices, believe that they know all they need to know and are logging on to either criticize the families on the show or Muslims in general.
I would be shocked if ANY of the viewers commenting here actually sought out a reputable book about Islam and the Muslim experience or made a real-life effort to engage with a Muslim with the simple goal of seeking true knowledge. No, they just wait for the next episode of a reality show, laptops ready and fingers poised to expound on this.
Some presume to know our history better than WE know it! Seriously. This from people who generally learn everything they 'know' about the world beyond their borders from TV, movies, the ever 'unbiased' media and the internet. NO real-life interactions of value. I mean, they're still facinated by hijab! Hijab!! Look at the threads on it. A concept so simple for us, yet confounding for them. Nattering on about fabric choices, temperatures in Florida, people's accents, suggesting we come up with a more 'fun' holiday than Ramadaan, etc.
The trouble is, people claim to want to be taken seriously, but take precious little care in how they express themselves. Sarcastic tones don't invite serious responses.
ALL the Muslims on this Board should know this quote and who said it: "Hold fast to the truth, Command what is right, But turn away from the ignorant".
Anyway, the most interesting part of your post was when you mentioned being a Bahá'í. I know diddly about your religion and I'd be delighted if you'd enlighten me about it please. The Kuffaar may not care to learn from Muslims about Muslims, but this Muslim is keen to learn from a Bahá'í about the Bahá'í faith:-)
You mentioned that Nabi Muhammad Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam is 'a' Messenger of Allah, does that mean that he is not the Khaatemun Nabiyeen in the Bahá'í faith?
I do know that while there are various houses of worship from many different faiths in the Emirates, the Bahá'í faith is banned there.
What is the Bahá'í position on the Shahada?
What is the Bahá'í position on the Khalifas?
Oh my! I should pace myself! You may just be bringing this pitiful Board to life for me! :-)
I shall leave the Jaahilun to their own devices and their weird fixation on the attire of Muslim women, but I really want to hear from you if you please. Thanks :-)
'I would be shocked if ANY of the viewers commenting here actually sought out a reputable book about Islam and the Muslim experience or made a real-life effort to engage with a Muslim with the simple goal of seeking true knowledge. No, they just wait for the next episode of a reality show, laptops ready and fingers poised to expound on this.'
How many television shows about real Christian families do they show in the middle east?
You presume that the posters on a message board are representative of all Americans.
I assume nothing that these posts haven't proven and in many cases, repeatedly. When you get to the Middle East (pick a country-there are many), you can research your own question. You know, since you're going to use real-life methods to learn something rather than from a stranger on the internet. Oh, and, I am American, born and raised. That means I don't need TV to tell me about America.
shareAs-salámu 3alaykum, sister!
I understand what you mean. While there are people who are interested in learning more and educating themselves, there are others who just come on the boards to troll and say mean and ignorant things because they can. As you quoted, "Hold fast to the truth, Command what is right, But turn away from the ignorant". It's true, we can't waste our time on those who refuse to learn. In shá' Allah, you'll find some gems that will want to hear and understand you and what you have to say.
Thank you, sister! It would be my pleasure and privilege to tell you about my Faith.
The Bahá'í Faith is a religion that began in Persia/Iran in the 19th century. Our three fundamental beliefs are the Unity of God (tawHíd), the Unity of Mankind (there is only one human race), and the Unity of Religion (all the great religions of the world were revealed by the same Creator in order to guide and educate humanity and inform us of His will).
We believe that God has sent innumerable Messengers to humanity throughout history. Each of these Messengers gave humanity a Revelation that was appropriate in its teachings and laws for the time that the Revelation was given and for the level of development humanity was in at that time. Each revelation also promised the advent of future Messengers and Revelations. Some of the most well-known Messengers of God have been Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Krishna, Zoroaster, Buddha, Jesus, and Muhammad (upon them all be peace).
We Bahá'ís believe that the Messenger of God for this age of humanity is Bahá'u'lláh; He lived from 1817 to 1892, in what was then the Qájár and Ottoman Empires. For us, He is the Promised One of All Ages, and fulfills the Christian and Islamic prophecies of the Return of Jesus. He was preceded in His mission by another Messenger, The Báb, whose purpose was to prepare people for the coming of Bahá'u'lláh. The Báb was born in 1819 and was martyred in 1850. For us, He fulfills the Islamic prophecy of the Mahdí or Qá'im.
Besides the three Unities, the Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh teaches the following:
- The equality of men and women
- An end to all forms of prejudice, whether racial, ethnic, religious, caste, economic, gender, etc.
- A spiritual solution to economic problems
- The elimination of the extremes of wealth and poverty
- Universal compulsory education
- The harmony of science and religion
- The unification of the planet into a single world commonwealth
- The adoption of a universal auxiliary language and script
- Independent investigation of the truth
Now, to your specific questions:
We believe, as the Muslims do, that the Qur'án is the Perfect and Unchanged Word of God. So, we completely affirm that the title Khátim an-Nabiyín applies to Muhammad (Salaa lláhu 3alayhi wa-sallam). However, we differ with our Muslim brothers and sisters on the meaning of this title. In our belief, it does not mean that He is the last Messenger; in fact, we believe that God will never cease to send us Messengers to continue guiding us in our future development. Rather, the purpose of the title Khátim an-Nabiyín is to affirm the Unity of God's Messengers. In a very spiritual sense, there was and always has been only one Manifestation of God's Will, even if this Manifestation appeared as different Messengers in different ages. The following quote from the Bahá'í Writings helps explain this idea:
Religions are many, but the reality of religion is one. The days are many, but the sun is one. The fountains are many, but the fountainhead is one. The branches are many, but the tree is one.
The foundation of the divine religions is reality; were there no reality, there would be no religions. Abraham heralded reality. Moses promulgated reality. Christ established reality. Muhammad was the Messenger of reality. The Báb was the door of reality. Bahá'u'lláh was the splendor of reality. Reality is one; it does not admit multiplicity or division. Reality is as the sun, which shines forth from different dawning points; it is as the light, which has illumined many lanterns.
Therefore, if the religions investigate reality and seek the essential truth of their own foundations, they will agree and no difference will be found. But inasmuch as religions are submerged in dogmatic imitations, forsaking the original foundations, and as imitations differ widely, therefore, the religions are divergent and antagonistic. These imitations may be likened to clouds which obscure the sunrise; but reality is the sun. If the clouds disperse, the Sun of Reality shines upon all, and no difference of vision will exist. The religions will then agree, for fundamentally they are the same. The subject is one, but predicates are many.
(Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 126)
First and foremost: Wa Alaykumus salaam wa Rahmatullahi wa Barkaatu (Akhi or Ukhti:-)
Secondly: Shukran jazeelan for infusing this thread with much-needed relevant information. You can understand why that's MOST refreshing. I've put a couple of characters on 'ignore' as it's unlikely they'll contribute anything of value to our chat here. SubhanAllah! To be jaahil is to not know that one is. Astaghfirullah, taubah, taubah. May my Rabb forgive me if I am, ameen. I'm certainly guilty of being ghayr saboor:( Now, onto the subject at hand...for which I thank you:-)
The Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh has a familiar ring to it. Much of it relates to what is expected in the establishment of Khilafah rule which, as I'm sure you know, is incumbant upon every Muslim. More accurately, it would be the re-establishment of Khilafah. Of course, it is fundementally in direct conflict with the current world order of capitalism which puts people in competition with each other rather than to want for their neighbor what they want for themselves.
It is most interesting that the Baha'i believe that Imam Mahdi as well as Nabi Isa Alayhi Salaam have already been. What, then, will usher in Yaum al-Qiyamah? Any references to Dajjal? Kiraam and Kaatibeen? The Malaiika?
We are agreed that the Anbiyah were sent to every nation/people in all corners of the Earth. The Native Americans understood tawHeed centuries ago as did countless ancient and now vanished civiliazations.
The Day of Judgement at the foot of Mount Arafat is an integral aspect of Islamic beliefs. Is this recognized in The Bahá'í Faith? As far as Jannat and Jahannam go, how much in common do you have with Islam in reference to this?
As you may know, the 5 Principles of Islam are
1) Imaan
2) Salaat five times a day
3) Zakaat (Alms)
4) Saum in Ramadaan
5) Hajj to Mecca
These are Fard(compulsory) with the Fifth being so only when one afford and is capable.
Are any of these adhered to by Baha'is? I would imagine that since Khaatimun Nabiyeen means something different and not 'The Seal of the Prophets' in the The Bahá'í Faith, adhering to the Sunnah of Rasulullah Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam may not be part of your tenets. Would this be a fair statement?
Also, since you believe, as we Muslims do, that Al Qur'án Al Kareem is the Perfect and Unchanged Word of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'Aala, then is it referenced at all, used as the Baha'i Holy Book, studied in Arabic as we do and memorized by Hufaaz?
So the Shaafi, Hannafi, Maliki and Hanbali Madhaabs are a non-factor?
I like what you said about The Bahá'í Faith's attitude toward Sunnis and Shias that we are viewed as your Ikhwaan wa Akhawaat. Does this extend to the Ahmeddiyahs, too? It's a shame the Sunni/Shia issue has caused the degree of division among the Ummah we currently see. I am Sunni.
Sorry for all the questions:-) After my earlier post to you, I went online and reserved some books on the subject of the Baha'i Faith from the Mid-Manhattan Library. I'll pick up the books as soon as I get an email notification they're ready for pick-up. Until then, I hope you don't mind me picking your brain.
Your post is laden with excellent information and has provided me with greater clarity on The Bahá'í Faith . That said, (and I say this with a good-natured grin) I can see why it's banned in the UAE even though many other religions have established houses of worship there :-) Seriously, though, it was most enlightening. I had read before that its roots lay in Islam, but that its points of deviation are numerous, hence its status in the Muslim world.
I honestly cannot thank you enough for this marvelous chat! I appreciate it tremendously. When I came to this Board, I had hoped many would use this forum to maximize the opportunity to have meaningful exchanges and then I read a bunch of threads and lost hope. You've restored it and I shall be delighted to answer any questions you may have. JazakAllahu khayran :-) Ma:a s-salaamah
Shukran jazílan yá ukhtí! (I'm an akh :) )
Wow, first I'd like to say how much it pleases my heart that you are so curious and have come up with such good questions for me! When it comes to religion, not everyone is comfortable with really investigating a religion they're not familiar with. So I commend you on your curiosity and your courage! And as you said, it's refreshing to have someone who you can have a meaningful discussion with on IMDB.
Haha, I've studied Arabic for quite a while, but I'm still not totally familiar with all the nuances of Islamic terminology, so please forgive me if I make a mistake. I got most of what you said, but what do "taubah" and "saboor" mean?
The Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh has a familiar ring to it. Much of it relates to what is expected in the establishment of Khilafah rule which, as I'm sure you know, is incumbant upon every Muslim. More accurately, it would be the re-establishment of Khilafah. Of course, it is fundementally in direct conflict with the current world order of capitalism which puts people in competition with each other rather than to want for their neighbor what they want for themselves.
It is most interesting that the Baha'i believe that Imam Mahdi as well as Nabi Isa Alayhi Salaam have already been. What, then, will usher in Yaum al-Qiyamah? Any references to Dajjal? Kiraam and Kaatibeen? The Malaiika?
Gracious God! How far have that people strayed from the way of God! Although the Day of Resurrection was ushered in through the Revelation of Muhammad, although His light and tokens had encompassed the earth and all that is therein, yet that people derided Him, gave themselves up to those idols which the divines of that age, in their vain and idle fancy, had conceived, and deprived themselves of the light of heavenly grace and of the showers of divine mercy. Yea, the abject beetle can never scent the fragrance of holiness, and the bat of darkness can never face the splendour of the sun.
Such things have come to pass in the days of every Manifestation of God. Even as Jesus said: "Ye must be born again."[1] Again He saith: "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."[2] The purport of these words is that whosoever in every dispensation is born of the Spirit and is quickened by the breath of the Manifestation of Holiness, he verily is of those that have attained unto "life" and "resurrection" and have entered into the "paradise" of the love of God. And whosoever is not of them, is condemned to "death" and "deprivation," to the "fire" of unbelief, and to the "wrath" of God. In all the scriptures, the books and chronicles, the sentence of death, of fire, of blindness, of want of understanding and hearing, hath been pronounced against those whose lips have tasted not the ethereal cup of true knowledge, and whose hearts have been deprived of the grace of the holy Spirit in their day. Even as it hath been previously recorded: "Hearts have they with which they understand not."[3]
[1 John 3:7].
[2 John 3:5-6]
[3 Qur'án 7:178]
(Bahá'u'lláh, The Kitáb-i-Iqán, p. 117)
The following is an evidence of the sovereignty exercised by Muhammad, the Day-star of Truth. Hast thou not heard how with one single verse He hath sundered light from darkness, the righteous from the ungodly, and the believing from the infidel? All the signs and allusions concerning the Day of Judgment, which thou hast heard, such as the raising of the dead, the Day of Reckoning, the Last Judgment, and others have been made manifest through the revelation of that verse. These revealed words were a blessing to the righteous who on hearing them exclaimed: "O God our Lord, we have heard, and obeyed." They were a curse to the people of iniquity who, on hearing them affirmed: "We have heard and rebelled." Those words, sharp as the sword of God, have separated the faithful from the infidel, and severed father from son. Thou hast surely witnessed how they that have confessed their faith in Him and they that rejected Him have warred against each other, and sought one another's property. How many fathers have turned away from their sons; how many lovers have shunned their beloved! So mercilessly trenchant was this wondrous sword of God that it cleft asunder every relationship! On the other hand, consider the welding power of His Word. Observe, how those in whose midst the Satan of self had for years sown the seeds of malice and hate became so fused and blended through their allegiance to this wondrous and transcendent Revelation that it seemed as if they had sprung from the same loins. Such is the binding force of the Word of God, which uniteth the hearts of them that have renounced all else but Him, who have believed in His signs, and quaffed from the Hand of glory the Kawthar of God's holy grace. Furthermore, how numerous are those peoples of divers beliefs, of conflicting creeds, and opposing temperaments, who, through the reviving fragrance of the Divine springtime, breathing from the Ridván of God, have been arrayed with the new robe of divine Unity, and have drunk from the cup of His singleness!
(Bahá'u'lláh, The Kitáb-i-Iqán, p. 111)
We are agreed that the Anbiyah were sent to every nation/people in all corners of the Earth. The Native Americans understood tawHeed centuries ago as did countless ancient and now vanished civiliazations.
The Day of Judgement at the foot of Mount Arafat is an integral aspect of Islamic beliefs. Is this recognized in The Bahá'í Faith? As far as Jannat and Jahannam go, how much in common do you have with Islam in reference to this?
As you may know, the 5 Principles of Islam are
1) Imaan
2) Salaat five times a day
3) Zakaat (Alms)
4) Saum in Ramadaan
5) Hajj to Mecca
These are Fard(compulsory) with the Fifth being so only when one afford and is capable.
Are any of these adhered to by Baha'is?
I would imagine that since Khaatimun Nabiyeen means something different and not 'The Seal of the Prophets' in the The Bahá'í Faith, adhering to the Sunnah of Rasulullah Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam may not be part of your tenets. Would this be a fair statement?
Also, since you believe, as we Muslims do, that Al Qur'án Al Kareem is the Perfect and Unchanged Word of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'Aala, then is it referenced at all, used as the Baha'i Holy Book, studied in Arabic as we do and memorized by Hufaaz?
So the Shaafi, Hannafi, Maliki and Hanbali Madhaabs are a non-factor?
I like what you said about The Bahá'í Faith's attitude toward Sunnis and Shias that we are viewed as your Ikhwaan wa Akhawaat. Does this extend to the Ahmeddiyahs, too? It's a shame the Sunni/Shia issue has caused the degree of division among the Ummah we currently see. I am Sunni.
Act in accordance with the counsels of the Lord: that is, rise up in such wise, and with such qualities, as to endow the body of this world with a living soul, and to bring this young child, humanity, to the stage of adulthood. So far as ye are able, ignite a candle of love in every meeting, and with tenderness rejoice and cheer ye every heart. Care for the stranger as for one of your own; show to alien souls the same loving kindness ye bestow upon your faithful friends. Should any come to blows with you, seek to be friends with him; should any stab you to the heart, be ye a healing salve unto his sores; should any taunt and mock at you, meet him with love. Should any heap his blame upon you, praise ye him; should he offer you a deadly poison, give him the choicest honey in exchange; and should he threaten your life, grant him a remedy that will heal him evermore. Should he be pain itself, be ye his medicine; should he be thorns, be ye his roses and sweet herbs. Perchance such ways and words from you will make this darksome world turn bright at last; will make this dusty earth turn heavenly, this devilish prison place become a royal palace of the Lord -- so that war and strife will pass and be no more, and love and trust will pitch their tents on the summits of the world. Such is the essence of God's admonitions; such in sum are the teachings for the Dispensation of Bahá.
(Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 34)
Your post is laden with excellent information and has provided me with greater clarity on The Bahá'í Faith . That said, (and I say this with a good-natured grin) I can see why it's banned in the UAE even though many other religions have established houses of worship there :-) Seriously, though, it was most enlightening. I had read before that its roots lay in Islam, but that its points of deviation are numerous, hence its status in the Muslim world.
As-Salaamu 3Alaykum once more Akhi:-)
JazakAllahu khair for taking the time to offer this thorough and well-presented response to my MANY questions. SENSATIONAL and delightful!!! :-)
First, I must say, you need not commend me for seeking knowledge, but you may reprimand me if I shun it:-) Seeking knowledge, critical thinking and questioning received wisdom is incumbant upon Muslims. Rasulullah Sallallahu Alayhi wa sallam had stated as much. My Ab is a theologian as well as a surgeon and my waalidain have always encouraged their aTfaal to be knowledge-seekers. They're both Polyglots so as a Linguist, you'd easily relate. Nevertheless, I am humbled by your words and I thank you. I am most grateful for the fact that you would take the time to offer thoughtful responses. Ashkur-ak Akhi :-)
To answer your question about Tawbah/Taubah and Saboor: 'Tawbah' refers to repentance and in that context I meant that if I'm guilty of being jaahil(which is a dreadful vulnerability in my opinion) then I seek to repent and have Allah's forgiveness. 'Saboor' stems from the word Sabr, meaning patience. To be 'ghayr saboor' is to be impatient. Another dreadful vulnerability:(
In response to your question about Mount Arafat on Yaum Al-Qiyamah. I'll briefly refer to The Final Sermon of Rasulullah Sallalhu Alayhi wa Sallam. The Nabi(SAW) delivered his final sermon on the 9th Day of Dhul-Hijjah, 10 A.H.(623AD) in the Uranah Valley of Mount Arafat in Makkah. It was the occassion of the annual rites of Hajj. It is also known as The Farewell Pilgrimage. On Yaum Al-Qiyamah essentially life on earth as we know it will cease to be after the second time Malaikah Israfil blows the Trumpet.
This event is most assuredly understood to be cataclysmic in the physical realm and there is a detailed description on what will transpire. After he blows the Trumpet a third time, The day of Ressurection will follow where every soul ever born, from the time of Nabi Aadam Alayhi Salaam to the last human being will be gathered at the foot of Mount Arafat for Judgment before Allah Subhaanahu wa Ta'Ala. Every deed done, good and bad will be accounted for and this will transpire for all in a single day. Does this feature in The Baha'i Faith?
Your answers were so detailed and clear and I really appreciate that. You're right, though, I have more questions;-)
My next question refers to the Malaak. Malaikah Jibril is charged with the key task of revelations to all of the Anbiyah. Is this so in the Baha'i Faith and is it believed that the Bab and Bahá'u'lláh were addressed by him? Do the Malaak have the same tasks in The Baha'i Faith as in Islam?
Malaikah Israfil's duty regarding Yaum Al-Qiyamah involves signaling the start of it, the ending of all life and the resurrection of all souls for judgment with the blowing of the trumpet 3 times.
Malaikah Azraaiyl, also refered to as Malaik Al Maut(Angel of death) is tasked with seperating the soul from the body and Malaikah Mikaeel is charged with matters of the natural world (health, nourishment, weather, etc).
Kiraman Katibin are known as The Noble(Honorable) Recorders. They are positioned on the right and left shoulders of every human being, recording our deeds. They are not Guardian Angels, also known as the Mu'aqqibat. There are two Mu'aqqibats for each person, one in front of you and one behind you.
With the Bab perceived as Nabi Isa Alayhi Salaam returned and now gone, does this mean that you believe more Anti-Christs will arise and new prophets will defeat them?
Your answers regarding the 5 Principles of Islam as they correspond to The Baha'i Faith served to give me greater clarity on where key deviations in The Baha'i Faith from Islam occur. The Last Sermon can be referenced to great effect to explain where the concern arises. I remember reading a while back that you had a Qiblah, just not the Kaaba and I remember being utterly gobsmacked! :-) (Imagine that sound Scooby Doo makes. That was me:-) Anyway, that is a MASSIVE deviation from Rasulullah's teachings. The issue of Saum and your solar calendar is obviously another. So that's Haj and compulsory Saum where there are differences. As for the frequency and method of Salaat and Zakaat, again, differences. The giving of Alms is done in several ways for several types of ricipients and is not restricted to Muslims only.
Now, Akhi, you must correct me if I'm wrong on my understanding of the following please. I was going to ask if The Last Sermon (from which I will quote excerpts) had any significance in The Baha'i Faith, but, respectfully, it appears almost every warning given during the sermon seems to have been rejected by Bahá'u'lláh.
For example: Regarding changing the established Lunar calendar, Rasulullah Sallallahu Alayhi wa sallam says,
"O men! The unbelievers indulge in tampering with the calendar in order to make permissible that which Allah forbade, and to prohibit what Allah has made permissible. With Allah the months are twelve in number. Four of them are holy, they are successive and one occurs singly between the months of Jumada and Sha’baan."
On the issue of Salaat, Saum and Haj, Rasullallah Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam says,
"O People! Listen to me in earnest, worship Allah, say your five daily prayers, fast during the month of Ramadan, and give your wealth in Zakaat. Perform Hajj if you can afford it."
The warning not to deviate from all his teachings and to hold fast to Al Haqq and the clear knowledge that Nabi Muhammad Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam is, indeed, the Seal of the Prophets, comes a wee bit later when Rasullullah Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam says,
"Do not therefore do injustice to yourselves. Remember one day you will meet Allah and answer for your deeds. So beware, do not astray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.
O People! No Prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore O People! And understand words that I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Quran and the Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray."
As part of this sermon, Rasulullah (SAW) recited to those gathered a revelation from Allah, which he had just received, and which completed the Quran, for it was the last passage to be revealed:
"This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me(Allah). This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion." Surat Al-Ma'idah (Surah 5 Ayah 3) Al Qur'an
So, The Last Sermon already goes a long way to explaining where the fundemental differences in Islam and The Baha'i Faith occur. If Al Qur'an Al Kareem is accepted by both faiths, how is the ayah from Surat Al-Ma'idah disregarded with the establishment of a new religion?
I hope that in my juxtaposition of our two religions I have not offended you any way as it is far from my intention to do so. If I have, Akhi, I ask that you forgive me, min faDHl-ak. It saddens me that the Baha'i people suffer great hardships in some places. This Duniya is troubled in so many ways, it's astonishing that we haven't destroyed ourselves yet! May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'Ala grant us all hidayat and hikma as we navigate our way through this life, insha'Allah.
Ooh, you work with Native American communities in your studies? How perfectly splendid that is! May I ask what it is your tasks entail? I like the Lakhota name for The Great Spirit, Wakan Tanka:-) It sounds like a word my brother would repeat just because it sounds cool. He's silly that way:-) You're not wrong about the way Westerners treated their belief system. Once branded heathens, the forcible indoctrinations were merciless. In some areas of Canada, many Native American children were removed from their family homes by law, forced into Christian schools, their long hair forcibly sheared and their native tongues strictly prohibited. Punishment was severe when caught speaking a native language at school. Heartbreaking. What part of the Duniya is untainted by man's inhumanity towards man? May Allah Azzawajal grant us His Rahmat in spades, for without it, we are surely doomed to despair.
SUBHANALLAH!! It's after 1am and I'm running on auto pilot here! :-) I hope I've been coherent otherwise I've rendered us both a tremendous disservice with posting while exhausted:-) I have more thoughts rattling about in the old noggin, but I'd best leave you in peace for now:-)
Once, more, Akhi, I thank you for your time and your willingness to share your knowledge. BaarakAllahu feek
Ma:a s-salaamah :-)
First, I must say, you need not commend me for seeking knowledge, but you may reprimand me if I shun it:-) Seeking knowledge, critical thinking and questioning received wisdom is incumbant upon Muslims. Rasulullah Sallallahu Alayhi wa sallam had stated as much. My Ab is a theologian as well as a surgeon and my waalidain have always encouraged their aTfaal to be knowledge-seekers. They're both Polyglots so as a Linguist, you'd easily relate. Nevertheless, I am humbled by your words and I thank you. I am most grateful for the fact that you would take the time to offer thoughtful responses. Ashkur-ak Akhi :-)
Oops, hit 'reply' :P
To answer your question about Tawbah/Taubah and Saboor: 'Tawbah' refers to repentance and in that context I meant that if I'm guilty of being jaahil(which is a dreadful vulnerability in my opinion) then I seek to repent and have Allah's forgiveness. 'Saboor' stems from the word Sabr, meaning patience. To be 'ghayr saboor' is to be impatient. Another dreadful vulnerability:(
In response to your question about Mount Arafat on Yaum Al-Qiyamah. I'll briefly refer to The Final Sermon of Rasulullah Sallalhu Alayhi wa Sallam. The Nabi(SAW) delivered his final sermon on the 9th Day of Dhul-Hijjah, 10 A.H.(623AD) in the Uranah Valley of Mount Arafat in Makkah. It was the occassion of the annual rites of Hajj. It is also known as The Farewell Pilgrimage. On Yaum Al-Qiyamah essentially life on earth as we know it will cease to be after the second time Malaikah Israfil blows the Trumpet.
This event is most assuredly understood to be cataclysmic in the physical realm and there is a detailed description on what will transpire. After he blows the Trumpet a third time, The day of Ressurection will follow where every soul ever born, from the time of Nabi Aadam Alayhi Salaam to the last human being will be gathered at the foot of Mount Arafat for Judgment before Allah Subhaanahu wa Ta'Ala. Every deed done, good and bad will be accounted for and this will transpire for all in a single day. Does this feature in The Baha'i Faith?
In like manner, strive thou to comprehend from these lucid, these powerful, conclusive, and unequivocal statements the meaning of the "cleaving of the heaven" -- one of the signs that must needs herald the coming of the last Hour, the Day of Resurrection. As He hath said: "When the heaven shall be cloven asunder."[1] By "heaven" is meant the heaven of divine Revelation, which is elevated with every Manifestation, and rent asunder with every subsequent one. By "cloven asunder" is meant that the former Dispensation is superseded and annulled. I swear by God! That this heaven being cloven asunder is, to the discerning, an act mightier than the cleaving of the skies! Ponder a while. That a divine Revelation which for years hath been securely established; beneath whose shadow all who have embraced it have been reared and nurtured; by the light of whose law generations of men have been disciplined; the excellency of whose word men have heard recounted by their fathers; in such wise that human eye hath beheld naught but the pervading influence of its grace, and mortal ear hath heard naught but the resounding majesty of its command -- what act is mightier than that such a Revelation should, by the power of God, be "cloven asunder" and be abolished at the appearance of one soul? Reflect, is this a mightier act than that which these abject and foolish men have imagined the "cleaving of the heaven" to mean?
[1 Qur'án 82:1.]
(Bahá'u'lláh, The Kitáb-i-Íqán, p. 43)
In like manner, endeavour to comprehend the meaning of the "changing of the earth." Know thou, that upon whatever hearts the bountiful showers of mercy, raining from the "heaven" of divine Revelation, have fallen, the earth of those hearts hath verily been changed into the earth of divine knowledge and wisdom. What myrtles of unity hath the soil of their hearts produced! What blossoms of true knowledge and wisdom hath their illumined bosoms yielded! Were the earth of their hearts to remain unchanged, how could such souls who have not been taught one letter, have seen no teacher, and entered no school, utter such words and display such knowledge as none can apprehend? Methinks they have been moulded from the clay of infinite knowledge, and kneaded with the water of divine wisdom. Therefore, hath it been said: "Knowledge is a light which God casteth into the heart of whomsoever He willeth." It is this kind of knowledge which is and hath ever been praiseworthy, and not the limited knowledge that hath sprung forth from veiled and obscured minds. This limited knowledge they even stealthily borrow one from the other, and vainly pride themselves therein!
Would that the hearts of men could be cleansed from these man-made limitations and obscure thoughts imposed upon them! haply they may be illumined by the light of the Sun of true knowledge, and comprehend the mysteries of divine wisdom. Consider now, were the parched and barren soil of these hearts to remain unchanged, how could they ever become the Recipients of the revelation of the mysteries of God, and the Revealers of the divine Essence? Thus hath He said: "On the day when the earth shall be changed into another earth."[1]
[1 Qur'án 14:48.]
The breeze of the bounty of the King of creation hath caused even the physical earth to be changed, were ye to ponder in your hearts the mysteries of divine Revelation.
(Bahá'u'lláh, The Kitáb-i-Íqán, p. 45)
And now, comprehend the meaning of this verse: "The whole earth shall on the Resurrection Day be but His handful, and in His right hand shall the heavens be folded together. Praise be to Him! and high be He uplifted above the partners they join with him!"[1] And now, be fair in thy judgment. Were this verse to have the meaning which men suppose it to have, of what profit, one may ask, could it be to man? Moreover, it is evident and manifest that no such hand as could be seen by human eye could accomplish such deeds, or could possibly be ascribed to the exalted Essence of the one true God. Nay, to acknowledge such a thing is naught but sheer blasphemy, an utter perversion of the truth. And should it be supposed that by this verse are meant the Manifestations of God, Who will be called upon, on the Day of Judgment, to perform such deeds, this too seemeth far from the truth, and is surely of no profit. On the contrary, by the term "earth" is meant the earth of understanding and knowledge, and by "heavens" the heavens of divine Revelation. Reflect thou, how, in one hand, He hath, by His mighty grasp, turned the earth of knowledge and understanding, previously unfolded, into a mere handful, and, on the other, spread out a new and highly exalted earth in the hearts of men, thus causing the freshest and loveliest blossoms, and the mightiest and loftiest trees to spring forth from the illumined bosom of man.
[1 Qur'án 39:67.]
In like manner, reflect how the elevated heavens of the Dispensations of the past have, in the right hand of power, been folded together, how the heavens of divine Revelation have been raised by the command of God, and been adorned by the sun, the moon, and stars of His wondrous commandments. Such are the mysteries of the Word of God, which have been unveiled and made manifest, that haply thou mayest apprehend the morning light of divine guidance, mayest quench, by the power of reliance and renunciation, the lamp of idle fancy, of vain imaginings, of hesitation, and doubt, and mayest kindle, in the inmost chamber of thine heart, the new-born light of divine knowledge and certitude.
Know verily that the purpose underlying all these symbolic terms and abstruse allusions, which emanate from the Revealers of God's holy Cause, hath been to test and prove the peoples of the world; that thereby the earth of the pure and illuminated hearts may be known from the perishable and barren soil. From time immemorial such hath been the way of God amidst His creatures, and to this testify the records of the sacred books.
(Bahá'u'lláh, The Kitáb-i-Íqán, p. 45)
These are the melodies, sung by Jesus, Son of Mary, in accents of majestic power in the Ridván of the Gospel, revealing those signs that must needs herald the advent of the Manifestation after Him. In the first Gospel according to Matthew it is recorded: And when they asked Jesus concerning the signs of His coming, He said unto them: "Immediately after the oppression[1] of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the earth shall be shaken: and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet."[1] Rendered into the Persian tongue,[2] the purport of these words is as follows: When the oppression and afflictions that are to befall mankind will have come to pass, then shall the sun be withheld from shining, the moon from giving light, the stars of heaven shall fall upon the earth, and the pillars of the earth shall quake. At that time, the signs of the Son of man shall appear in heaven, that is, the promised Beauty and Substance of life shall, when these signs have appeared, step forth out of the realm of the invisible into the visible world. And He saith: at that time, all the peoples and kindreds that dwell on earth shall bewail and lament, and they shall see that divine Beauty coming from heaven, riding upon the clouds with power, grandeur, and magnificence, sending His angels with a great sound of a trumpet. Similarly, in the three other Gospels, according to Luke, Mark, and John, the same statements are recorded. As We have referred at length to these in Our Tablets revealed in the Arabic tongue, We have made no mention of them in these pages, and have confined Ourselves to but one reference.
[1] The Greek word used (Thlipsis) has two meanings: pressure [1] and oppression. 25
[1 Matthew 24:29-31.]
[2 The passage is quoted by Bahá'u'lláh in Arabic and interpreted in Persian.]
Inasmuch as the Christian divines have failed to apprehend the meaning of these words, and did not recognize their object and purpose, and have clung to the literal interpretation of the words of Jesus, they therefore became deprived of the streaming grace of the Muhammadan Revelation and its showering bounties. The ignorant among the Christian community, following the example of the leaders of their faith, were likewise prevented from beholding the beauty of the King of glory, inasmuch as those signs which were to accompany the dawn of the sun of the Muhammadan Dispensation did not actually come to pass. Thus, ages have passed and centuries rolled away, and that most pure Spirit hath repaired unto the retreats of its ancient sovereignty. Once more hath the eternal Spirit breathed into the mystic trumpet, and caused the dead to speed out of their sepulchres of heedlessness and error unto the realm of guidance and grace. And yet, that expectant community still crieth out: When shall these things be? When shall the promised One, the object of our expectation, be made manifest, that we may arise for the triumph of His Cause, that we may sacrifice our substance for His sake, that we may offer up our lives in His path? In like manner, have such false imaginings caused other communities to stray from the Kawthar of the infinite mercy of Providence, and to be busied with their own idle thoughts.
(Bahá'u'lláh, The Kitáb-i-Íqán, p. 23)
[deleted]
My next question refers to the Malaak. Malaikah Jibril is charged with the key task of revelations to all of the Anbiyah. Is this so in the Baha'i Faith and is it believed that the Bab and Bahá'u'lláh were addressed by him? Do the Malaak have the same tasks in The Baha'i Faith as in Islam?
Malaikah Israfil's duty regarding Yaum Al-Qiyamah involves signaling the start of it, the ending of all life and the resurrection of all souls for judgment with the blowing of the trumpet 3 times.
Malaikah Azraaiyl, also refered to as Malaik Al Maut(Angel of death) is tasked with seperating the soul from the body and Malaikah Mikaeel is charged with matters of the natural world (health, nourishment, weather, etc).
Kiraman Katibin are known as The Noble(Honorable) Recorders. They are positioned on the right and left shoulders of every human being, recording our deeds. They are not Guardian Angels, also known as the Mu'aqqibat. There are two Mu'aqqibats for each person, one in front of you and one behind you.
Shake off, O heedless ones, the slumber of negligence, that ye may behold the radiance which His glory hath spread through the world. How foolish are those who murmur against the premature birth of His light. O ye who are inly blind! Whether too soon or too late, the evidences of His effulgent glory are now actually manifest. It behoveth you to ascertain whether or not such a light hath appeared. It is neither within your power nor mine to set the time at which it should be made manifest. God's inscrutable Wisdom hath fixed its hour beforehand. Be content, O people, with that which God hath desired for you and predestined unto you.... O my ill-wishers! The Day Star of eternal Guidance beareth me witness: Had it been in my power, I would have, under no circumstances, consented to distinguish myself amongst men, for the Name I bear utterly disdaineth to associate itself with this generation whose tongues are sullied and whose hearts are false. And whenever I chose to hold my peace and be still, lo, the voice of the Holy Ghost, standing on my right hand, aroused me, and the Supreme Spirit appeared before my face, and Gabriel overshadowed me, and the Spirit of Glory stirred within my bosom, bidding me arise and break my silence. If your hearing be purged and your ears be attentive, ye will assuredly perceive that every limb of my body, nay all the atoms of my being, proclaim and bear witness to this call: "God, besides Whom is none other God, and He, Whose beauty is now manifest, is the reflection of His glory unto all that are in heaven and on earth."
(Bahá'u'lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh, p. 102)
"One night in a dream," He Himself, calling to mind, in the evening of His life, the first stirrings of God's Revelation within His soul, has written, "these exalted words were heard on every side: 'Verily, We shall render Thee victorious by Thyself and by Thy pen. Grieve Thou not for that which hath befallen Thee, neither be Thou afraid, for Thou art in safety. Ere long will God raise up the treasures of the earth -- men who will aid Thee through Thyself and through Thy Name, wherewith God hath revived the hearts of such as have recognized Him.'" In another passage He describes, briefly and graphically, the impact of the onrushing force of the Divine Summons upon His entire being -- an experience vividly recalling the vision of God that caused Moses to fall in a swoon, and the voice of Gabriel which plunged Muhammad into such consternation that, hurrying to the shelter of His home, He bade His wife, Khadijih, envelop Him in His mantle. "During the days I lay in the prison of Tihran," are His own memorable words, "though the galling weight of the chains and the stench-filled air allowed Me but little sleep, still in those infrequent moments of slumber I felt as if something flowed from the crown of My head over My breast, even as a mighty torrent that precipitateth itself upon the earth from the summit of a lofty mountain. Every limb of My body would, as a result, be set afire. At such moments My tongue recited what no man could bear to hear."
In His Súratu'l-Haykal (the Surih of the Temple) He thus describes those breathless moments when the Maiden, symbolizing the "Most Great Spirit" proclaimed His mission to the entire creation: "While engulfed in tribulations I heard a most wondrous, a most sweet voice, calling above My head. Turning My face, I beheld a Maiden -- the embodiment of the remembrance of the name of My Lord -- suspended in the air before Me. So rejoiced was she in her very soul that her countenance shone with the ornament of the good-pleasure of God, and her cheeks glowed with the brightness of the All-Merciful. Betwixt earth and heaven she was raising a call which captivated the hearts and minds of men. She was imparting to both My inward and outer being tidings which rejoiced My soul, and the souls of God's honored servants. Pointing with her finger unto My head, she addressed all who are in heaven and all who are on earth, saying: 'By God! This is the Best-Beloved of the worlds, and yet ye comprehend not. This is the Beauty of God amongst you, and the power of His sovereignty within you, could ye but understand. This is the Mystery of God and His Treasure, the Cause of God and His glory unto all who are in the kingdoms of Revelation and of creation, if ye be of them that perceive.'"
(Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, p. 100)
With the Bab perceived as Nabi Isa Alayhi Salaam returned and now gone, does this mean that you believe more Anti-Christs will arise and new prophets will defeat them?
In regards to the Bahá'í Dispensation changing many of the laws and practices of the Islamic Dispensation:
Since we believe The Báb and Bahá'u'lláh were Messengers (or in our usual terminology "Manifestations") of God, we believe that They, in manifesting God's Will, have the right to abrogate the laws of previous Dispensations and establish new ones. I agree with you sister, that no ordinary human has the right to do this, which is what the Prophet Muhammad (Salá lláhu 3alayhi wa-sallam) warns against. So, from our perspective, this change in laws is perfectly natural. I'm sure you agree that the Messengers of God have this right; the Revelation of the Qur'án, for instance, made consumption of alcohol unlawful, while it was lawful in the Christian Dispensation.
On the changing of the Qiblah: This is another example of the theme mentioned above. Muhammad (SA3WS) had the right to change the Qiblah from Jerusalem to Mecca; in our view, its change in the Bahá'í Dispensation from Mecca to Bahjí was likewise within the Messenger's right. Here's what Bahá'u'lláh says about this:
And likewise, reflect upon the revealed verse concerning the "Qiblih."[1] When Muhammad, the Sun of Prophethood, had fled from the dayspring of Batha[2] unto Yathrib,[3] He continued to turn His face, while praying, unto Jerusalem, the holy city, until the time when the Jews began to utter unseemly words against Him -- words which if mentioned would ill befit these pages and would weary the reader. Muhammad strongly resented these words. Whilst, wrapt in meditation and wonder, He was gazing toward heaven, He heard the kindly Voice of Gabriel, saying: "We behold Thee from above, turning Thy face to heaven; but We will have Thee turn to a Qiblih which shall please Thee."[4] On a subsequent day, when the Prophet, together with His companions, was offering the noontide prayer, and had already performed two of the prescribed Rik'ats,[5] the Voice of Gabriel was heard again: "Turn Thou Thy face towards the sacred Mosque."[6],[7] In the midst of that same prayer, Muhammad suddenly turned His face away from Jerusalem and faced the Ka'bih. Whereupon, a profound dismay seized suddenly the companions of the Prophet. Their faith was shaken severely. So great was their alarm, that many of them, discontinuing their prayer, apostatized their faith. Verily, God caused not this turmoil but to test and prove His servants. Otherwise, He, the ideal King, could easily have left the Qiblih unchanged, and could have caused Jerusalem to remain the Point of Adoration unto His Dispensation, thereby withholding not from that holy city the distinction of acceptance which had been conferred upon it.
[1 The direction toward which the face must be turned when praying.]
[2 Mecca.]
[3 Medina.]
[4 Qur'án 2:144.]
[5 Prostrations.]
[6 At Mecca.]
[7 Qur'án 2:149.]
None of the many Prophets sent down, since Moses was made manifest, as Messengers of the Word of God, such as David, Jesus, and others among the more exalted Manifestations who have appeared during the intervening period between the Revelations of Moses and Muhammad, ever altered the law of the Qiblih. These Messengers of the Lord of creation have, one and all, directed their peoples to turn unto the same direction. In the eyes of God, the ideal King, all the places of the earth are one and the same, excepting that place which, in the days of His Manifestations, He doth appoint for a particular purpose. Even as He hath revealed: "The East and West are God's: therefore whichever way ye turn, there is the face of God."[1] Notwithstanding the truth of these facts, why should the Qiblih have been changed, thus casting such dismay amongst the people, causing the companions of the Prophet to waver, and throwing so great a confusion into their midst? Yea, such things as throw consternation into the hearts of all men come to pass only that each soul may be tested by the touchstone of God, that the true may be known and distinguished from the false. Thus hath He revealed after the breach amongst the people: "We did not appoint that which Thou wouldst have to be the Qiblih, but that We might know him who followeth the Apostle from him who turneth on his heels."[2] "Affrighted asses fleeing from a lion."[3]
[1 Qur'án 2:115.]
[2 Qur'án 2:143.]
[3 Qur'án 74:50.]
Were you to ponder, but for a while, these utterances in your heart, you would surely find the portals of understanding unlocked before your face, and would behold all knowledge and the mysteries thereof unveiled before your eyes. Such things take place only that the souls of men may develop and be delivered from the prison-cage of self and desire. Otherwise, that ideal King hath, throughout eternity, been in His Essence independent of the comprehension of all beings, and will continue, for ever, in His own Being to be exalted above the adoration of every soul. A single breeze of His affluence doth suffice to adorn all mankind with the robe of wealth; and one drop out of the ocean of His bountiful grace is enough to confer upon all beings the glory of everlasting life. But inasmuch as the divine Purpose hath decreed that the true should be known from the false, and the sun from the shadow, He hath, therefore, in every season sent down upon mankind the showers of tests from His realm of glory.
(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 49)
I hope that in my juxtaposition of our two religions I have not offended you any way as it is far from my intention to do so. If I have, Akhi, I ask that you forgive me, min faDHl-ak. It saddens me that the Baha'i people suffer great hardships in some places. This Duniya is troubled in so many ways, it's astonishing that we haven't destroyed ourselves yet! May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'Ala grant us all hidayat and hikma as we navigate our way through this life, insha'Allah.
Ooh, you work with Native American communities in your studies? How perfectly splendid that is! May I ask what it is your tasks entail? I like the Lakhota name for The Great Spirit, Wakan Tanka:-) It sounds like a word my brother would repeat just because it sounds cool. He's silly that way:-) You're not wrong about the way Westerners treated their belief system. Once branded heathens, the forcible indoctrinations were merciless. In some areas of Canada, many Native American children were removed from their family homes by law, forced into Christian schools, their long hair forcibly sheared and their native tongues strictly prohibited. Punishment was severe when caught speaking a native language at school. Heartbreaking. What part of the Duniya is untainted by man's inhumanity towards man? May Allah Azzawajal grant us His Rahmat in spades, for without it, we are surely doomed to despair.
Salaams to you, once more, ya Akhi, and JazakAllahu khair for the above:-)
I'm keen to respond and continue our discussion, but must halt for a couple of days. CTS & tendonitis are pummeling my wrists right now. Will be back in a day or so when the discomfort subsides and I can type more, insha'Allah.
PS: Don't disappear on me now! Been loving learning and sharing :-)
BaarakAllahu feek
Ma:a s-salaamah
Shukran jazílan yá ukhtí for such challenging questions!
Please feel better! I look forward to talking with you again soon :)
Alhamdulillah! Al-yawma ana bi-khair, ya Akhi. Ashkur-ak! :-) Baakir, insha'Allah, sawf adhhab 3ela yaktubu:-)
shareAs-salaamu Alaykum, ya Akhi. Sincere apologies for the delayed response. I hope you are well and having a splendid week. so far. I sent you a PM. Please check your Inbox:-) Shukran
Ma:a s-salaamah
I learned everything I need to know about islam on 9-11
I would encourage you to read the Qur'án and form your opinion from that. People are very good at twisting and corrupting religious scriptures to fit their own political and social goals; Al-Qaeda is a good example of this. Better to go to the source.
shareI also would encourage you to read the Qur'an.. Completely.. All of it.. Not just some verse here and there that sounds good... In fact, recites those verses about killing, stoning, hell, over and over...
shareI also would encourage you to read the Qur'an.. Completely.. All of it.. Not just some verse here and there that sounds good... In fact, recites those verses about killing, stoning, hell, over and over...
ok how about you muslims read the King James Bible from cover to cover ? any takers ? anyone ?
[deleted]
[deleted]
I learned everything I need to know about islam on 9-11Then people learned everything there is to know about America on 9/11/1973 when the CIA overthrew a democracy and established a murderous Fascist regime in its place in Chile. And people learned everything there is about Japan in Nanjing in 1937, and everything there is to know about Germany on September 1 1939, blah blah blah blah blah. People who take singular examples of political events orchestrated by governments and other such political organizations and use them to define millions or even billions of people and entire countries, religions, races, cultures and histories, are such absurdly simple-minded people that they shouldn't even be commenting on ice cream flavors, let alone matters of global consequence.
Salaams Akhi. I've emerged after a long break, much later than I anticipated and I apologize for disappearing (after I asked you not to :-) Are you still keen to continue our exchange?
BaarakAllahufeek
As-salámu 3alaykum, sister! I actually was gone too, I just got back from 3 weeks in India!
I am totally interested in continuing our discussion :) I'll start off with this question: In the Islamic Faith, what is the purpose of our existence?
[deleted]
[deleted]
WasSalaam, Akhi. Wow! India. Sounds fantastic. Glad you're back and had a safe trip:-) Still battling the CTS, so I'll try to be succinct. Anyway, in response to your question above, here's a reference below:
To a Muslim the whole purpose of life is "ibadah" or worship to the One True Almighty God on His Terms and under His Conditions.
The term "worship" to a Muslim includes any and all acts of obedience to Almighty Allah.
So his purpose of life is a standing purpose; Worshipping Allah by accepting Allah's Will over his own.
This act of ibadah [worshipping, thanking and extolling the Greatness Almighty Allah on His Terms and Conditions] is for the Muslim, throughout his whole life regardless of the stage. Whether he is a child, adolescent, adult or aged person, he is seeking after the Will of the Almighty in all these stages.
His life here on earth although short, is full of purpose and is totally meaningful within the complete framework of total submission [Islam].
Similarly, in the Next Life as well, his faith, intentions, attitudes and good deeds will all be weighed into his account as favorable putting him in high esteem with his Creator and Sustainer.
Because Islam teaches that this life is only a test or trial for the individual to show him his true nature it is only natural that he would accept death as not so much an ending to everything but more as a beginning of the final and lasting life in the Hereafter.
That is beautiful, sister. It is exactly what we Bahá'ís believe as well. Our daily Obligatory Prayer affirms this:
"I bear witness, oh my God, that Thou hast created me to know Thee and to worship Thee. I testify at this moment to my powerlessness and to Thy might, to my poverty and to Thy wealth. There is none other God but Thee, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting."
There is an often-used metaphor in the Bahá'í Writings regarding our earthly life and its purpose. It likens this earthly life to that of the child in the womb of its mother. The purpose of the child's life in the womb is to grow and develop appropriately and sufficiently so that it will be prepared for the life after birth. Likewise, we must develop our spiritual qualities and faculties in order to be prepared for our eternal lives in the Hereafter. If we fail to do so, we will be like the child who failed to develop properly in the womb and so is disadvantaged in the physical life. We will be spiritually disadvantaged in the next, eternal life.
The fundamental requirement in our spiritual development is recognition of God and His Messengers, and obedience to God's law. Practices such as prayer, fasting, service to humanity, and living a virtuous, righteous life all follow from this.
Personally I do not care if you are or are not an American or whether middle eastern countries show American families on television. My point was that at least in this country a program showing Muslim families has an audience. There is no rioting, no protests but a few narrow-minded and weak people (Lowe's, for example) who respond to threats.
shareAre you serious? For decades Hollywood portrayals of Muslims/Arabs defamed us to the point where a reality show in 2011 can't even emerge without ridiculous stereotypes surfacing at break-neck speed. Do you NOT know that there are Arab Christians that you should even ask me if Christian families appear on 'Middle Eastern' tv? Of course, now you claim you don't care about that or that I'm American, but you cared when you accused me of painting Americans with the same brush.
Points can be made without going into battle over them. I, for one, am looking forward to a response from the Baha'i poster about their religion. I'm well-enough versed on America and the Middle East.
'Of course, now you claim you don't care about that or that I'm American, but you cared when you accused me of painting Americans with the same brush.'
That comment isn't deserving of a response.
Besides, it seems to me that one doesn't have to be an outsider to something to be ignorant of it. When someone says that they are American and therefore don't need to be schooled on American attitudes via TV, that says that they are painting everyone with a very broad brush. How many dozens of ethnicities, religions, and creeds make up the landscape of the American populace? To think that a few misinformed replies on an IMDb board is representative of the average or median American perspective is naive at best, and at worst is as ignorant and close-minded as their accusations to others suggest. A spirit of information and consciousness-raising, as the next previous poster used, rather than one of derision, exasperation, and mockery, is what will dispel any misinformation that continues to so frustrate.
Oh, and btw, if my thread about Shadia's family's accent was going to be referenced broadly to suggest that it was part of this closed-mindedness, let me remind anyone who cares to go back and review it that it had nothing to do with their religion or ethnicity, but rather their regional dialect in that part of the U.S., so it would equally apply to any other resident in the same geographical region. So, not to split hairs, but completely irrelevant from the current thread topic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k62kc07m1Dc
Go back and re-read the post. This time, WITH comprenhension.
shareNo amount of haughty indignation and pseudo-superiority overshadows the fact that: a) you have fundamentally contradicted your own point by making sweeping generalizations about Americans who make sweeping generalizations; and b) you already said you didn't wish to make this a war of words, so why are you doing so? Your hypocrisy has been exposed, so the graceful thing would be to recognize that and admit the mea culpa. Also, deriding others' lack of awareness by exhibiting the limits of your own comprehension, and choosing to get on one's high horse about the intellectual dearth on the very same board on which you are also repeatedly visiting and posting does nothing further for your self-displayed hypocrisy.
share[deleted]
[deleted]
I noticed the OP didn't answer the question about how many shows showing Christianity are shown in Muslim countries.
share[deleted]
I noticed the OP didn't answer the question about how many shows showing Christianity are shown in Muslim countries.In Iran there are Christmas TV specials that come on around Christmastime directed at the Iranian Christian community even though they're less than 1% of the Iranian population. In Jordan and Syria, even Muslims buy Christmas trees and put up decorations so as to take part in the festivities with their Christian compatriots. You know nothing about Muslim countries so you shouldn't comment on them. Can you imagine if major American TV channels played Islamic TV specials directed at the American Muslim community on Muslim holidays, or if American Christians took part in the Muslim holidays? The right wing (and even some liberals) would throw a SH!T FIT, just like they did over this TV show. Don't lecture anyone on tolerance when people like you come to this board just to spew your hate.
todays headline news december 25 2011
LAGOS, Nigeria - Terror attacks across Nigeria by a radical Muslim sect killed at least 39 people Sunday, with the majority dying on the steps of a Catholic church after celebrating Christmas Mass as blood pooled in dust from a massive explosion.
these are your people doing this
I can guarantee you, 100%, that the people who carried out these terror attacks were peasants without access to education, and so were easily manipulated and brainwashed by their local "imam", "mullah", "mujtahid", etc. I use quotes on these titles because the vast majority of such clerics are charlatans who are no more Muslim than Timothy McVeigh was Christian. Oh, they may believe that they're pious, righteous Muslims. But they don't practice Islam - the submission of one's own will to the Will of God. Instead, they use their power and influence in the local community to get desperate unfortunates to go out and kill themselves and others in order to further their own selfish and corrupt inclinations.
Everything that has been labeled "Islamic extremism", "Islamic fundamentalism", or "Islamofascism", is, at its core, the exploitation of the poor and ignorant by sociopaths posing as pious religious leaders.
[deleted]
[deleted]
Here's an intellectually stimulating exercise for you. Please explain verse 4:34 of the Quran.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Why Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world... but for Wales?