MovieChat Forums > Ayn Rand & the Prophecy of Atlas Shrugged (2011) Discussion > The collectivism of Ayn Rand's readers.....

The collectivism of Ayn Rand's readers...


Please let's not consider Ayn Rand a prophet, even if we are in a sad age of greed and selfishness.

Ayn Rand railed against what she described as collectivism — the idea that society and interdependent relationships are important. Her impenetrable "literature" has become trendy in recent years, recommended by right-wing media pundits desperate to find an authority figure to support the antisocial message of greed and selfishness they push. Oddly enough, many thoughtlessly lapping up and parroting her arguments consider themselves Christian, even "Patriotic" Americans...

Ayn Rand opposed organized religions, such as Christianity (with its preaching against greed and love of money, and its social lessons of "love thy neighbor" and charity), dismissing them as collectivism and anti-individual (which they are).

And patriotism implies allegiance to something larger than the individual. Armed forces, among which patriotism is a central force, are collectivist by nature. The United States was created by a group of patriots working together, working collectively. They created a society that celebrated the freedom of the individual, not greed and selfishness.

And let's not forget, Ayn Rand couldn't have made a fortune without a group of readers collectively buying her books (which were typeset, printed, bound, published, marketed, shipped, and sold by a collective she depended upon.)

She was writing at a time when communism was still considered somewhat a legitimate idea, and understandably opposed it. In the USA we spent half a century running away from the ugly extreme of communism without stopping to realize we were running toward the opposite ugly extreme, laissez-faire capitalism. Neither extreme is good; neither the state-controlled collectivism of communism nor the corporate-controlled faux-individualism of laissez-faire capitalism.

Ayn Rand is half right: communism is bad. But she was wrong to imagine reactionary greed and selfishness are good. The best ideas are those in the middle, moderate.

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Agreed, and I'm thinking this "documentary" is just an attempt to obtain some of that greedy and selfish right-wing cash. There is pleny of it out there.

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires. That’s the only reason I can see why people in the US continue to vote against their own interests." - John Steinbeck

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You should watch the documentary, it won't hurt you. It's kind of obvious and shallow but a pretty good introduction to Rand for a general interest audience. I kept hoping it would go deeper into aspects of her philosophy, but ... no.

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No rational person lives by Rand's ideas.

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You may have something there, her ideas are quite ... I was going to say extreme but that implies crazy. Let's just say absolutist. However, I find her thought-provoking and interesting.

P.S. I should have amended my above post about the film being vague about Rand's philosophy. The interviews on the DVD's extras menu were very good.

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This is a helpful thread, for this person who is just starting with Rand's world view.

We need to remember that getting value from someone's writing is not the same as agreeing with it. If we only read writer's with whom we agree, we would live in a very restricted world

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She was a very provocative thinker. I don't necessarily agree with her much. I'm a fan of 'altruism', as she dismissively refers to it. But? I'm not entirely sure she would be a fan of 'corporate greed'. Not the way it is 'celebrated' today.

But it is being done in her name, often enough.

I've also noticed the 'collectivist blind spot' in many Rand supporters. Corporations seem to somehow not be a 'collective' at all, while they fire away at unions.

She was a strange sort of idealist. If all people who ran businesses were of the character of a Roarke or a Galt, total libertarianism would probably work. Of courser, you could say the same for Communism.

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