MovieChat Forums > After Fall, Winter (2012) Discussion > Gypsy subplot

Gypsy subplot

posted 12 years ago by bmusler-1
5 replies | jump to latest

Did the whole "gypsy curse" subplot bother anyone?

I don't mean from the point of view of political correctness (though it did seem highly sterotypical to me,) but because it dictated the unsatisfying ending. It's what Checkov (is supposed to have) said about putting a gun on stage in the first act means it has to be fired by the end of the play. Once the gypsy woman cursed him, we had to see a tragedy play out...but that hacneyed strategem seemed so at odds with the overall psychology of the film, not to mention the sensitivity of the performances and direction.

It seems to me if the gypsy woman, brother and daughter were rethought we would have had a far more satisfying ending and therefore a much better movie...or am I missing something crucial here?

[–] TheMonkofDestiny 12 years ago

When you frame it into a foreshadowing device like that, yes, it is bothersome.

If it had been re-worked to such a degree that the curse never came into the plot (just the curse, mind you, though I suppose I could argue that the subplot with the girl could have been excised entirely as well), the eventual clash between Michael and Sophie and their reluctance to completely divulge everything to one another would have been (though still inevitable from the point of a viewer) a natural progression of their relationship.

Truth be told, the subplots kind of kill this film. I liked it all the same but a few less would've been an improvement as far as I'm concerned.

[–] ampersanda 11 years ago

I concur. This film is like a painting of Elvis on velvet by a Flemish master - up close it is exquisitely wrought, but as you stand further back it starts failing.
This film has outstanding acting, and the dialogue and its delivery is exquisite and so plausible - some of the best dialogue I have viewed in a drama. This film would have been one of my favorites were it not for the pre-adolescent plotting and execution of plot elements. The tenor of the sex scene didn't fit with the character development; the "Checkov's gun" issue and how hackneyed it was acting through the Gypsy curse was unnecessary, and equally puerile and hackneyed was the ending (shades of R&J). Also, someone who works in Hospice would certainly be more skilled and careful in determining death.
I think this film could be as good as Trout Fishing in the Yemen with some significant re-editing. Even an ending like Blue Valentine's would have been a vast improvement. I wonder if they shot alternate scenes for these problematic elements.

[–] Molly-31 11 years ago

Brautigan fan, much?

I thought it was Salmon Fishing in the Yemen.

You've got me?! Who's got you?!

[–] ampersanda 11 years ago

Yes, Salmon, not Trout. (palm-to-forehead)Thanks.

[–] GuyOnTheLeft 10 years ago

I kind of have the opposite position. I overall liked the film quite a bit (8/10), but I did feel a little uneasy from a "PC" standpoint about the portrayal of Roma ("Gypsy") characters.

However, maybe it's because I am a staunch atheist, but like Michael I never took the "gypsy curse" seriously. I did not think it had any magical effect, and until reading this board it never occurred to me that this might have been Schaeffer's intent as to how to interpret the plot. I am still 90 percent sure it is a misreading, but I do now acknowledge that it is possible.

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