Does anyone know what Melyssa said when she was pointing out the baby's face in the sonogram? I played that scene several times but couldn't understand her. It started something like, "If you look closely you can see..."
I searched the board for this and didn't see it. Sorry if I missed it. Thanks in advance if you have the answer.
She said "my baby has a strong jaw". In other words the baby looks like its murderer of a father.
shareI thought it was 'strong jaw bone' but regardless, what a freak! I hate hate hate the fact that this crazy chick and her killer 'husband' is bringing a child into the world. Gee, what a lucky kid that will be! (yes, sarcasm intended) I mean, she think he's innocent for God's sake. That's scary. And the poor kid will have to visit his killer father in prison, what a great role model! And then he can visit his loser grandfather in prison too! This film angered me to the bone, as a documentary filmmaker myself I wanted Werner to challenge this crazy bitch - ask her the tough questions. Ask who's paying for this kid? Ask her WHY she is so selfish to bring a kid into this scenario. And then I wanted him to question all the killers every time they referred to "God" and his forgiveness. Yawn! Why is it these mass murderers always find God in prison and yet show zero remorse? Yawn again.
If you're really a documentary filmmaker, I'd have to assume that yours are not the most balanced and objective docs around.
shareI found it odd she wouldn't really answer his question about the conception.
She said "legally, it will be his". He pressed and she ended up saying something about "we are saying artificial insemination"
Not sure if Herzog, our most people, are aware, but in many states, if you are married, a child is automatically presumed to be fathered by the husband under the law, no matter who actually provided the sperm. Therefore her comment "legally, it will be his"
I'm not even sure the baby is Burkett's biologically. I'd say, likely not. Even smuggling out his sperm, it would unlikely have got to her and artificially placed in her uterus while the sperm were still motile.
I suppose it is possible that could happen though, still, her comment "legally, it will be his", her making that distinction, really raised my suspicions.
I'm pretty sure she was being cryptic because she didn't want to implicate anyone who may have been involved with the illegal smuggling of contraband (sperm) from prison. They certainly wouldn't be the first couple to conceive a child this way.
I believe it was mentioned in an episode of "Prison Wives" that Joe "Mad Dog" Sullivan and his wife Gail conceived a child while he was serving a long prison sentence by enclosing the sperm inside a handball and tossing it over the prison walls to awaiting accomplices in the free world.
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Heywood, I agree it could be possible to smuggle it out, just not likely.
The fact that the first thing she said is "legally, it will be his", makes me think that, biologically, it will not be.
Agreed, but there's a good chance she just wants to stay out of legal trouble by admitting to contraband (speaking as the husband of a sheriff's department captain responsible for many of the county jail operations here).
What seems even odder to me is that Herzog never asked this question:
"Do you ever worry about the possibility that there may be a genetic component to all this, given how your husband, his brother, and their father turned out? I mean, whether or not he killed those people himself, it seems clear that there is a tendency toward trouble here. You seem to be clearly an intelligent woman, and I'm sure you're aware of hereditary tendencies when it comes to an orientation toward crime and antisocial behavior. Have you thought much about that possibility?"
I mean, that question seemed so obvious, and so direct in a typical Herzog way, that I was anticipating it at any moment, and then the interview ended. Damn.
I have actually addressed this issue on several threads but , again I would like to say. If you have a problem with me, awesome. I made my bed by agreeing to be in this film. But you implying that my innocent child might be defective is not evidence based. Please show me what medical evidence you have that demonstrates a genetic trait that is a guarantee of criminal behavior. I am a high functioning productive member of society. I come from a family of college educated people. My parents were married more than 50 years. I think lumping my son into any category is wrong. I am no longer involved with Jason or any other Burkett. And fyi my child is advanced intellectually and receives comments from his teachers about his kindness all the time.
"Defective" is your word, not mine. I think it's way too harsh. Even in cases where there is such a factor, compassion is in order.
Here's what I _did_ say:
-- That I was surprised Herzog didn't ask the question(s). That was the point, not that I was advocating all of it in every detail. (Cf. "in a typical Herzog way.")
Here's what I did _not_ say:
-- That a genetic trait is a "guarantee of criminal behavior." I said genetics can carry forward a tendency toward antisocial or criminal behavior. Do you actually dispute that this statement is true?
-- That I have any "medical evidence" to demonstrate this "guarantee."
-- That you were not high-functioning or college-educated, or that your family has a history of bad marriages.
In fact, I said (in that hypothetical Herzog question) that you were clearly an intelligent woman. I did mean that. You seem like a decent and well-meaning person as well. The post wasn't a commentary on you or on anything other than the fact that I was surprised this was a question that Herzog didn't ask.
It _is_ true, however, that you were not the only genetic contributor. That is not meant to be a cruel statement, only a true one.
As the father of several kids myself, I am actually happy -- as in made-my-day happy -- to hear that your son is doing well. I hope you'll forgive me that I'm happy you're no longer involved with Jason or the others. What relatively limited reading and research I've done on the matter of hereditary tendencies toward criminality and antisocial behavior (I was a grad student in ed psych at one time) indicate to me that with rare exceptions, heredity can never be more than part of the story, and sometimes it's not any of the story. An environment of cruelty, exploitation, alienation, superficiality, convoluted values, etc., can make a criminal itself, or it can uncork hereditary tendencies in that direction. But without the environment, it's difficult to the point of being nearly impossible to make a serious criminal. After all, a lot of people with antisocial PDs end up as cops, firefighters, and soldiers. All of which is to say, I'm happy he doesn't have the influence from the other side, and for what it's worth, I do wish you both the best.
Thanks for your reply. I am sorry I got a little defensive. I am very protective of my son. I completely agree with your points on heredity. It can be a factor in criminal behavior. But I guess I am with the thinking that environment is the most important factor. Looking at Perry/Burkett that becomes an interesting debate. On one hand Perry seems to have been born with a predisposition and Burkett seems to be a result of his parents drug use. At least that is how I believe Herzog presented them. But Michael Perry was an unmedicated Bipolar, according to the state. And Burkett is a sociopath. What is not mentioned is Perry's molestation as a child and Burkett's neurological surgeries. I think all of those factors play into them becoming who they are/were. I also think there was not much anyone could have done to prevent it. But as for my son, I will do any and everything possible to nurture and help him excel. He has a Harvard educated Godfather that works for the DOD. So the idea of positive male role modeling is not lost on me either. Sorry this has become a bit rambling ....
shareBelieve me, I don't blame you for being defensive, with all the stuff that gets said out here. I'm sure I would've been much more so. It's a weird situation, with the film having gone public -- so there is some public aspect to the story -- but also the need for privacy. I really don't know how you handle it.
Re Perry and Burkett, there's also such a thing as how an act that wouldn't have been perpetrated by only one, ends up being perpetrated by two or more. Something about the combination of personality factors and triggers that makes it possible. There was a semi-famous case in New Zealand several years ago like this, with two teenage girls (the film Heavenly Creatures was based on it). I don't know if that kind of interaction was a factor here or not, but then, it's always hard to determine what factors went into a specific crime.
Far as I'm concerned, you're not rambling at all. Every bit of what you're saying is interesting and relevant.
Whether the motivation is to avoid a recent hereditary influence or just to do the right thing any parent would do, I guess it all comes down to the fact that the job of the parent is to raise the child right, with the best role models and values that can be mustered, since nothing can be done about heredity no matter what. I'm sure all of us have criminality in our ancestry at some point anyway.
Have you seen the other movie? There is one on youtube called Wheels of Steel-Wicked Attraction the basic point of that film is that they fed of each other as you are saying. I believe that to be true. Although from my own personal experiences dealings with both of them , I believe one was clearly the leader.I have managed to review my relationship with Jason from a few steps back and its almost painful to see the manipulation and blatant sociopathic self serving behaviors he displayed. I have thrown out almost all of the letters between him and myself for that reason.
You are right about the public aspect as well, although there are parts of the movie that are either stated or implied that are not 100% factual. But Herzog is an artist and his vision was to create this kind of conversation, so for that it is a good thing. I think Herzog is a wonderful person and he was so very kind to me and my baby.
I have seen Heavenly Creatures -- quite a piece of work, actually -- but not the film(s?) you mention here. I'll have to take a look.
I absolutely love Herzog's films, but if he altered factuality in any way here, I'll be very, VERY disappointed. There is an unwritten contract between the filmmaker and the audience with a documentary that requires the film to pursue factuality above all. Artistic vision isn't license to play fast and loose with the facts, and any conversation (started by the subject of the film) that results from a nonfactual portrait of a real human tragedy is not only off-base but reprehensible, as far as I'm concerned. I know you're probably talking about minor points, but still...I just HATE it. Same goes for "docudramas" like Zero Dark Thirty or Argo, where facts were treated as dispensable for the dramatic wishes of the filmmakers. There's always been an ethic where certain things were understood of filmmakers doing "true story" films, where sometimes you might roll two characters into one, or eliminate a minor influence on the main story, just because of the need to get a coherent storyline into two hours or so. But it was always with the understanding that you weren't going to pump false drama by deliberately skewing the facts (as with many aspects of Argo, the airport escape scene being a prime example). If you were going to co-opt some of the power of the story because it was a true story, then it was your duty to keep it true. Even more so with a documentary. I do know Herzog is a bit of a postmodernist-subjectivist when it comes to this kind of thinking -- what are facts? facts are flexible, they depend on the perceiver, blah blah blah -- but I would hate to know that he's actually skewing anything in his strict documentaries like this.
I _am_ glad to hear that he treated you right. He has always struck me as a real human being, and I wondered if that was only an impression.
I don’t understand how you somehow, randomly (documentary never even asks?!) started communicating with an inmate serving a LIFE sentence and fell in love with him? You say you’re convinced of his innocence and actually know the true story but never tell us what it is?!?! I wish the best for your son but something seemed very off with you in this particular film. I literally got beyond annoyed by it and felt the whole film lacked any true depth about this horrific and unforgivable tragedy.
shareWhere the hell do women like her come from? I mean seriously, all that 'destiny' and 'rainbows over the prison gates' garbage... she seriously sees that dude as good husband material? That's the height of her scope???? Insane.
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Duty Now For The Future
Google her screen name.
shareWhere the hell do women like her come from? I mean seriously, all that 'destiny' and 'rainbows over the prison gates' garbage... she seriously sees that dude as good husband material? That's the height of her scope???? Insane.I don't know where they come from, but there certainly are a lot of them out there. I'm not sure why women want relationships with prisoners. Maybe it's low self esteem, insecurity (she always knows where he is), or just plain delusion. The fact that she insisted on Burkett's innocence seems to point toward the latter, IMO.
A while back I read a book called Newjack: Guarding Sing Sing, by a journalist who becomes a prison guard (good book, btw).
Anyway, in one part he describes how the guards would just be amazed at the number of good-looking women who visited the inmates. The author speculates (IIRC) that the "she always knows where he is" has quite a bit to do with it.
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I have already explained this on these threads before but to restate some facts. The movie was heavily edited and unfortunately for me the more serious intellectual parts of my interview wet omitted. But long story short.... I met Jason at a very bad time in my life. I had just lost my parents and was very easily taken in by Jason's constant need for help. I am not an inmate groupie , nor a lonely woman with self esteem issues. I honestly just wanted to help someone. And he spun a web that was hard to escape. But after I became a mother everything changed. I have made my son my focus and Jason has received lots of fans who have sent thousands of dollars. I am no longer involved with him and I am ok with that. My son has not and will not ever go into a prison.
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The same reason most people find god because they are scared and don't want to die, at least not without the chance of another life.
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For the record I have already addressed most of your questions on other threads here. But I would like to say I take care of my chid. I am college educated and more than able to work. Your implication that I am somehow relying on anyone else is unfounded.
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I thought Werner was suggesting that he or someone in his crew had actually smuggled the sperm to her. He kept saying that "I went to see your husband on the 18th, and you conceived on the 20th" or something like that.
He said it several times just to get her to say the exact dates that he went to visit him, and when she supposedly concieved.
And he brought up the point that sometimes things are smuggled OUT of jails.
Herzog had nothing to do with the conception of my baby. He did edit my comments to make for a more interesting movie but thats pretty much it.
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I know this will sound like BS but I am Melyssa. I get bored and google things. So I wanted to update you all. Jason Burkett and I are no longer together. When my son was born everything changed very quickly. It is hard to explain but for so long I had believed Jason was the most important person in my world but then came this most amazing innocent little person that needed me. Having the baby brought out the best in me and the worst in Jason. Allot of things happened and I opened my eyes to the reality of who he is as a person. It took me awhile to untangle myself from him but I have 100%. As for the nasty comments about who my baby will become I can only say just because his mom made a bad choice does not make him doomed. I am also college educated and successful. I can say that my son is more advanced than most his age. He get's notes from his teachers about his kindness and his movie star smile. I love my baby and everyday I work hard to prove it. Jason Burkett has never seen him in person and never will. That's all I really have to say. O and he has my jaw :)
Couple questions...First it seems to me that there is another account on these boards claiming to be you, Which one is the real one?
Also you keep saying his teachers but your son should only be 2 or 3 correct, so you must mean preschool, correct?
Finally I don't want this to be interpreted as nasty however it is a genuine concern that the fathers genes could play a factor in his growth as a person, however if you truly are as good of mother as your writing would imply(you seem to genuinely care and have done things to shelter him from that world) then I'm sure in the end your son will be a fine(if not great) member of society
If this really is you then I truly wish you and your son the best in life
If this is a troll then congratulations you helped me pass 15 minutes writing a post where I wasn't angry but rather hopeful for a family, which would be a nice change thank you
You keep repeating that you're college educated,like that's supposed to mean something,seriously,nobody cares.
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