Jamal, worst traitor of all times
Quisling would be an angel compared to Jamal. His father apparently loved him. He was ILLEGALLY bugged by some kind of police mafia and Jamal participated in this. What kind of son would sell his father like that ?
The best one. His father was making illegal funding of terrorism and his son wanted to take him out of it the soonest possible. Because if he had gone deeper there is no saving him and his family.
The betrayal came from that guy with the glasses and the Americans. Hoffman was going to reward him with citizenship, instead of Guantanamo.
So what was that stupid question of yours again?
Jamal couldn't really know that one company was funding Yemeni insurgents. His father was apparently extremely careful about it ( Only adding it to the list in the last moment for example ). He certainly knew it after he helped police mafia to have surveillance on his father. So, he sold his father before so called terrorist funding.
Even CIA didn't have any hard proof on Dr. Abdullah and his son immediately believed mafia police instead of firstly challenging his father about him ? Is this what we are expected to believe ? He is so idiot that he believes mafia police about which he knows nothing.
As for terrorist funding, Jamal is so stupid that he doesn't even wonder where exactly the funding went. According to Americans everyone in ME is terrorist unless pro-American. Even if the funding goes to Yemen, it would be still important to know where was it used and against whom ? But Jamal, a typical of a traitor, doesn't ask these questions to his father and quickly jump into "Oh, my father is terrorist" nonsense.
One thing was good about the ending: it showed the price of treason to Jamal.
It looks like you didn't watch the moovie. Gunter besides analitics and streets work is also recruit informants: just give this photo, tell us who visited house or call your father. Nothing serious in exchange of potential sitizenship and his father protection. And Jamal still has doubts he is doing wrong thing. But he loves his father.
shareYou seem to be loyal to the Islamists. That loyalty is blinding you to what is right. Jamal was an integral part of his father's 'charity' organization and the mosque (the boxer's mother was helped with bags by Issa, an illegal with dubious motivation and intention).
Jamal and the mosque and Abdullah's charity all entirely dealt with ILLEGALITIES. Helping illegal immigrants. Raising money from uncertain sources. Using German (and European) laws and Constitution, bending and breaking them as THEY deemed necessary (for the "greater good, isn't that enough?").
To your point, if Jamal 'didn't know', then he would have no reason to cooperate or even understand what Gunther wanted him to do in the first place. Silly point-of-view. The problem is not Jamal and those like him, but the ones who stain Islam with their violence, duplicity and double-standards. Don't think for a moment that those very techniques can't be turned back on them. Or you.
The thing is that a son of a famous muslim preacher like Abdullah wouldn't jump into the same wagon with Western intelligence agencies. This is a ridiculous propaganda to show some "good muslims" to the audience.
It wasn't implied that Jamal was non-muslim or he didn't approve his father's islam-based lifestyle. Even a muslim who is not very religious wouldn't evaluate ME politics in the same way as Westerners. For a muslim two parameters would be checked before deciding if a muslim armed group could classified as "terrorist" or not :
1) If the cause is just and compatible with Islam. This is purely political side and will of course change from person to person. Jamal on the other hand, didn't even think about for what the armed group in Yemen was fighting for. He started to collaborate with German intelligence even before knowing the existence of such a group.
2) If the armed group willingly and continuously kills civilians. Jamal didn't know this one either. Attacking the military targets is not something a muslim would consider wrong.
EXAMPLE : USA and the West didn't bother to list Taliban as a terrorist group while they fought against Soviets. When it finally hurt US, they immediately became terrorists. From a muslim point of view, fighting against Americans or Soviets don't make Taliban terrorists. It is their act against the civilians that makes them terrorists. Condemning Taliban is no way equals to supporting US occupation of Afghanistan.
Jamal was gay. See the SPOILER - Jamal Gunther thread. He couldn't live as himself with his family, mosque, even in western Hamburg.
As for the Taliban, after 9/11 the Taliban gave refuge to Al Queda and refused to turn them over in Afghanistan. The Taliban happily destroyed schools that taught females, used cannons to destroy centuries-old statues,
And you must be very young and not western, or you would recall the Soviet Communists openly stating that their goal was to destroy the west and capitalism, and they would 'sell (the US) the rope with which to hang yourself.' Instead, they spent 40% of their GDP on military, and after 70 years the work-and-moral ethics of their citizens were destroyed.
The Taliban sought U.S. help, and then betrayed the U.S. If you think Jamal was awful for his betrayal, please be consistent and condemn the Taliban for their betrayal (as well as sheltering terrorists).
It wasn't stated that Jamal was gay. In fact, if he betrayed his father because he is gay, it makes him even worse. Worse than Quisling..
As for Taliban, they DID destroy schools and monuments and persecute women and such way before 9/11. It was just harmless for US. Most of the mujahideen to whom US supplied weapons for war against Soviets were already member of Taliban and al-Queda. In fact, differentiating these two in Afghanistan is nonsense. Al-Queda didn't exist as some seperate entity in Afghanistan. Bin Laden fought against Soviets as well. You need to read some history.
As for the Soviets; their casus belli for the invasion was to put pro-communist government overthrown by Islamists back into power. So, it is not really different from American reasons. They invaded Afghanistan to overthrow Taliban government and put so called democratic government into power. Taliban betrayed US ? Are u kidding ? Enemy of my enemy is my friend. Taliban took US military help because they were fighting against the Soviets. Taliban never said that they saw US as an ally.
Finally, spare anti-Soviet propaganda for yourself. I am not communist but anyone who read a little bit cold war history would know that Soviets never really considered an aggressive hot-war. Destruction of capitalism is a Marxist theory which tells that capitalism will consume itself and will be overthrown by proleteriat. During cold war, USA had several times more ICBms than Soviets. And it was USA which used policy of containment to actively undermine Soviet regime. I don't say Soviet Union was an innocent boy but it is ridiculous to put all the blame for them for cold war armament race.
One of the major reasons for the soviet invasion of Afghanistan was a warm water port. Something the Russians have wanted for centuries (and one reason why they wanted Crimea in 2014). Dominating Afghanistan would give them not only a warm water naval port but a way to ship their oil year round.
I don't say Soviet Union was an innocent boy but it is ridiculous to put all the blame for them for cold war armament race.
Uhh...Aren't you forgetting what happened after WWII when they took over by force half of Europe? Did the U.S. want Europe for itself? No, they wanted democratic nations in Europe and it was this action by the soviets that started and continued the cold war. Soviet involvement in nations all over the world from Chili, Cuba, Vietnam, North Korea, etc. was what the cold war was all about.
It was not the U.S. vs. the U.S.S.R. it was the world democracies vs. the U.S.S.R. The U.S. nor its allies never wanted to conquer the Russians, they just wanted democracy and capitalism which is the only way for a successful democracy to exist.
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My favorite: Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb share
You gotta be kidding me right ? I hope that all of your post is just a joke.
1) Afghanistan doesn't have sea connection.
2) Soviets took over Eastern Europe by "force" from NAZIS. I guess you would prefer NAZIS to be in control of Eastern Europe instead of Soviets. BTW, Without Soviets, Germany couldn't have been beaten.
3) Cold War was a mutual thing, mainly about not trusting each other. You can't blame Soviets or US for it, but both. Your example of Chile is ridiculous, Allende was demoractically elected president of Chile until Kissinger planned his downfall with a military coup.
Read some history, dude!
1) I realize that but it's a short hop through Pakistan and that might have been their nexe "annexation".
2) The US didn't "take over" Germany, it defeated it, freed the democratic countries, and set up a democratic government in West Germany. The East German government was picked by the soviets. It was not a democracy and what about the rest of east Europe?
2b) Agree, the Soviet governments policy of sending their people to sure death on the front lines was a major factor in ending the war sooner. But The U.S. would have won the war without the Russians, it would have just taken longer and maybe a couple of A-Bombs.
3) Allenda was disposed because he was a communist aided by the soviets and under the Monroe Doctrine no European or Asian nation could mess with this hemisphere. Same happened during the Cuban missile crises. If those missiles hadn't been removed there were preparations and troops on the ground in South Florida to remove them. The Soviets backed down after they saw we were serious and we appeased them by removing outdated missiles from Turkey.
The Soviets proved they couldn't be trusted after WWII by taking over all the countries behind the so-called Iron Curtain. By taking over I mean literally. Elections were a sham and only one party, the communist party, was allowed.
One would think the Russian people would have learned that their leaders don't represent the common folks interest a damn bit. It will take another generation to clean out the communist ideology from their brainwashed minds. So sad.
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My favorite: Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
Deluded. Even Churchill (certainly no fans of the Soviet Union) admitted that the Allies could *never* have beaten the Axis without the Soviets. "from their brainwashed minds" <- oh the irony. I'm glad you brought up Chile, with the USA acting *exactly* like the USSR did in Czechoslovakia. Both superpowers were imperialistic meddlers.
shareThe US most definitely could have defeated the Nazis by themselves. It just would have taken a long time. The US had a blue water navy. The Nazis did not. The US had long range bombers. The Nazis did not. The US had vastly superior industrial capacity and twice the population then Nazi Germany.
How in the world did you ever get the idea that the Allies lead by the US could not have eventually crushed the Nazis? Basic demographics and economics would tell you that the US could have defeated the Nazis by themselves. It would have taken some time because the US did not have a large standing army, but if you look at what the US was able to produce in numbers(tanks, planes, ships) Nazi Germany had no chance.
The US most definitely could have defeated the Nazis by themselves. It just would have taken a long time. The US had a blue water navy. The Nazis did not. The US had long range bombers. The Nazis did not. The US had vastly superior industrial capacity and twice the population then Nazi Germany.
How in the world did you ever get the idea that the Allies lead by the US could not have eventually crushed the Nazis? Basic demographics and economics would tell you that the US could have defeated the Nazis by themselves. It would have taken some time because the US did not have a large standing army, but if you look at what the US was able to produce in numbers(tanks, planes, ships) Nazi Germany had no chance.
If Germany isn't fighting a war on 2 fronts, the UK probably falls before the US even gets involved. Without their Navy, intelligence, troops, and especially the actual British Isles to be used as a staging point and a supply line, it seems unlikely we beat Germany in Europe. If the UK isn't already defeated it's still highly questionable the allied powers can win, as things were pretty bleak early on, even with the Axis troops fighting "the largest land theater of war in history" thanks to their invasion of the USSR.
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Jamal was gay
Agree with this.
In that scene with all the bigwigs talking, PSH said "...even become their lover if need be". share
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According to Americans everyone in ME is terrorist unless pro-American.How old are you, seriously?
Also - are you trolling? Because your illogical bending-over-backwards to try and find some reason to side with the terrorists in this film actually gives those who are already paranoid an EXCELLENT reason to be suspicious of anyone with a name like yours.
And then you'll sit there and play the victim, wondering why...
The Doctor is out. Far out. share
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According to Americans everyone in ME is terrorist unless pro-American.
It certainly does seem that way when every male over the age of 15 killed in a US drone strike is counted as a militant or terrorist unless proven otherwise, posthumously. That isn't my opinion, it is official US policy. share