MovieChat Forums > American Mary (2013) Discussion > Why I couldn't enjoy this mess of a film

Why I couldn't enjoy this mess of a film


The first 40 minutes of the film were excellent. It was basically a character piece and we were following around a desperate character who was unsure what she was doing, but was heavily motivated by getting money because she was broke. She was a likable character who was sarcastic but still cool. Once she gets date raped by her professor, the character of Mary does a COMPLETELE 180. The film DRASTICALLY changed from here on out. After getting date raped, she decides to torture him and tells him shes changing specialties and going into body modification. She does jobs out of her apartment, has a security guard and decides to closely work with the guy from the club.

Did I miss something? Where the hell did all this suddenly come from? This film just did a complete 180. She only did two jobs before and after both times she was pretty freaked out and taken back by it because they were so strange. To have the character drastically change from normal to psycho in a minute like that just doesn't make any sense. I am all for twists, but this just came across as completely random. I felt like I was watching a totally different film. Mary in the first 40 minutes of the film is drastically different from Mary in the remainder of the film. There is no transition.

The rest of the film was all over the place. I had no idea what was going on because the character of Mary just seemed to be all over the place. She goes back to helping out Beatress, then to hanging out at the club and becomes closer with Billy and develops feelings for him out of nowhere. I just didn't know what was going on or what to follow.

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It's a rape revenge flick, primarily. People can and do change completely after a traumatic event, sometimes rather abruptly so. The morning after the rape scene showed she was visibly traumatised. I thought that was done quite well. The table-throwing scene felt a bit unnecessary, but it underscored her disillusionment.

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I disagree. This wasn't primarily a rape revenge flick. If it were, it would have started with the offending act, and it would have ended with the revenge, or shortly after. If a quarter of the story is what goes on before the rape, more than half the story is what goes on after the revenge, it's not primarily revenge movie.

Other than calling it horror, I think it's hard to classify.

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The table-throwing scene felt a bit unnecessary

I found that scene extremely distracting since it's exactly like Catwoman's in 'Batman Returns'. I understand inspiration and odes but this was a distraction.


We've met before, haven't we?

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Ive just seen it and I too feel the same way. Great first half but it's almost like they turned it into a rape/revenge film which, due to all the plot holes and the fact that Mary suddenly acts like a sophisticated hit woman who tries far too hard to be cool and sassy and all the plot holes you mentioned left it as a total mess, it's as if there was like 30 mins left out for Mary's believable transition, it just ends up as a completely different movie, and a far worse one as well, Mary became a deeply unlikable and cold character but its as though we're supposed to root for her. Why it has so much acclaim I'll never know.

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Beautifully said Ceephax

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[deleted]

Did you notice that all her surgery instructors were reptilian? They're not only terrible people, but they're uglier than the people Mary modifies. Mary was too blinded to them to notice until she was raped. (It's a small matter, but she wasn't on a date. She wasn't date raped. She was raped.) Do you remember that scene where the doctor tells Mary to announce to the family that their father/husband had died? Mary had a ruthless streak from the very start. Because her role models were people who were cold and ruthless, who took delight in cutting people up. She just aimed her ruthlessness back at her mentor. Yes, you missed it.

By comparison to the "respectable" people, she finds the people on the margins to be more honorable. That's why she's suddenly dealing with them. By the end, she develops an awkward sense of mercy-- from contact with them.

How could she go back to medical school after her mentor raped her?

I thought the movie was great exactly because there was no time in it where I knew which direction it was going. It was like riding a two hour roller coaster blindfolded. Now maybe your only response to that is nausea; I call it original.

Yet, when I look back, all the apparently random twists came out of something logically connected to the plot. What? A security guard at a warehouse? Who would have expected that! What, the guy's husband wasn't thrilled with his wife's modification? How could that ever happen?

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This is a very insightful view of the characters. I felt there were a lot of the great moments simlar to Fincher and Polanski movies. You feel drawn to understand and be compassionate about characters, who simply won't let you in on their thoughts. You have to reconstruct their identity from the shattered pieces the movie presents.

That leads to a lot of dynammic, which is sometimes confusing, but it's also orignal. I think in all the weirdness around her, Mary is somehow the only sane person. The insanity of the world is something she fights by making other people, like they are "on the inside". That's how the surgeon turns out as ugly on the outside, as impotent and helpless as he really is. If anything Mary becomes more beautiful throughout the movie. She can be a very wicked femme-fatale.

She becomes "Bloody Mary", which means she assumed that identity for the people involved with her. There is still the innocent Mary somewhere inside, but it's getting pushed back by the new Mary; death and murder all around her.

I was curious to see it end, and I knew it had to end bad. Everyone can see it's going down for Mary, even though she's doing well financially for the first time. The ending wasn't bad, but I can understand how some people feel it's a bit random. However, it's like Se7en's ending. It stops being random, when you think about it.

This was one of the few movies, where time flew by. It's easy to accomplish in an action movie, but Mary was slow at times, yet it was never boring. Good movie!

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That's a good interpretation. I don't know that I could think of Mary as innocent. Naive, yes. I don't remember once that she came off as innocent, though. But you could see that she was trying to impress her mentors, and for that, she as cold as they were, and absorbed their horrible personalities as role models. You never see "the old" Mary, as far as I'm concerned.

When she became "Bloody Mary" she simply knew she had power. When you cut a guy's limbs off and hang him by his skin naked in a warehouse, word gets around. But Mary is so unaware of everybody else, that this surprises her. Or perhaps she never thought of herself that way. But then she shows mercy.

Mary spends the movie encased in ice. You see it crack a few times, and that gives you just enough of a peek to keep you hoping she'd break out and there would be some kind of redemption. There was, but it was pretty understated.

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I just watched this film, and ADORED it, but I do think the plot was a bit chaotic and clumsy at times.

I adored Katherine Isabelle in the lead role, because she seems like a strong enough woman not to play it simply innocent. In fact, the parts of the movie I felt the most stretched were when she breaks-- though I do think that they were hard to watch without feeling sympathy for her.

I thought of her character more of a tragic hero than anything-- at first, she is understandably judgmental of the modification sub-culture, understandable especially considering the extremes with which she enters it, but I agree with the comment that the body mod characters were actually highly sympathetic, even at the most dark (the devilish sisters were bizarre, extreme, and frankly scary, but ultimately, the worst they did was nibble on a tongue/lip-- abrasive, yes, but hardly demonic).

I did find her medical professors a bit of a stretch logically-- I don't think it a stretch that these type of people exist, but that they'd be so open about it with students who could easily destroy their careers seemed forced. Had they not been so directly tied to her, perhaps... and perhaps I'm being naive here to think that medical teachers couldn't be so vile without severe repercussions. However, I do think PEOPLE in general do exist that are as downright vile as those reptiles, so this minor issue hardly took me out of the experience, and didn't stop me from feeling relieved when they got their come-uppance.

I also do agree with it not being only a rape-revenge flick. I think American Mary is a bit more sophisticated than that; it's also a bit of a celebration of the people we might otherwise demonize (having a lot of friends covered in tattoos and a few who are into the body-mod subculture, I adore how they portrayed that culture, as a group of people who are essentially just unique and perhaps a bit "broken" but still very human).

Again, I don't think the film perfect-- the plot seems to wander aimlessly at times while it attempts to find its next push forward. However, there are moments that just make it ultimately charming. One of my favorite is in the relationship between Mary and the club owner. They were both two people who clumsily dealt with their own power, both people who stumbled and broke their own morality but who still felt very human. I actually thought the final scene somewhat sad, partly because it was obvious what was about to happen (subtlety was not the script's strength); yes, the guy was a sleaze, yes he was hardly the most upstanding of people, but he just felt very human in a flawed way-- as did Mary.

I'm a sap and I'll admit it... ****** SPOILER ALERT **** I wanted her to take that drive to LA!

All in all, was it a clumsy film? A bit, yes. The reptile teachers were a bit far fetched (or I'm a bit naive), the middle struggles a bit to be interesting and guided, and the ending was ... well... completely predictable, BUT I do think it was one of the more interesting explorations of moral ambiguity I've seen in awhile, and a film with a strong identity of its own.

I think in all honesty I found that I liked the film perhaps more than the technical aspects should have allowed. I think I do have to admit that I've had a crush on Katherine Isabelle for years and think she is absolutely fetching, and I think any warm-blooded man would probably feel the same way the club owner felt (both frightened by, and attracted to, her dangerous beauty); I do like what she did with the character, though-- she's sexy, absolutely scorching, but still feels very much like a girl you would just want to have a coffee with, though that may just be, again, my own personal reaction to her. And the film clumsily ignores some of the more blatant dark immoral actions of its leads, like Mary's murder of an innocent security guard, or the (murder?) the club owner commits, or at the very least his interrogation techniques. But considering the worlds both of them exist in, I didn't find that part all too surprising.

I dunno... I can understand why someone would hate the film-- it is clumsy at parts, like I said. But ultimately, there's just a charm I can't really describe. Perhaps it's just hard not to cheer for such an unapologetically strong female character, even if she is an anti-hero (who flirts with being a villain from time to time). I like how even the toughest of the characters around her don't feel the need to protect her all the time, but look up to her strength, and want to encourage her to grow and be as strong as she can be.

I like that... I dunno, call me crazy, but I like the idea of a woman being so powerful she's dangerous.

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^this is pretty much my exact feelings on the movie.

I would've loved if they explored more of that strange budding romance between Mary and Billy.

The film did have some major problems with pacing, though. We leap over scenes that should be expanded and trudge through scenes we could do without altogether. Thus, people, like OP, get confused when Mary suddenly embraces her "Bloody Mary" persona. Because the film would jump ahead by weeks (maybe even months) at random places. The could've easily cut out some of strange and weak dialog with the doctors and shorten the rape scene.

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I did not miss jack sh!t. The movie was all about appearance. Thats right you missed it :). A movie about people who wanted to look unique. The movie was trying to be something dark and foreboding but came up pretentious and sad. Mary was a horrible human being.

I had a best friend for four years who owned a tattoo parlor and i have been a part of many groups that live deviant lifestyles (BDSM, Transgendered, Adult Babies) and this movie is a joke. The characters in the film are lunatics. If you ever come across people like this run far away cuz bad sh!t is a coming.

This is nothing more then TORTURE PORN that really is unfair to rape survivors because by the end of the movie you are glad that she was raped and wish more horrible stuff would have happened to her.

Yes you reap what you sow... but I dont have to watch it and there should be a warning on movies like this or they should care an X rating because the scene with the doctor in suspension is going to stick with me for some time and I wish the producers would have warned me... I think we need a new classification of movies... Because this is not The Shinning... or Camp Sleep Away... or Texas Chainsaw... Movies like this... like the SAW franchise... even Audition... intentionally want to disturbe viewers in a genere where I think they believe the fans have become numb... not all of us have...

Some of us actually feel for another human beings suffering and we enjoy Horror movies because we get to watch people face their fears and overcome them.

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I'm not going to argue you should like a movie you don't like. It either takes or it doesn't.

This is nothing more then TORTURE PORN that really is unfair to rape survivors because by the end of the movie you are glad that she was raped and wish more horrible stuff would have happened to her.


Who's this "you" who's glad? No, maybe you yourself were glad by the end of the film that she was raped, but I wasn't.

Like there's a matter fairness to be weighed about rape? I believe if you could be glad anybody was raped you forfeit any moral standing to say what's unfair to rape survivors, because nobody deserves it. If you're say there's any situation where the survivor "had it coming" you're part of the problem. If you're saying that any terrible person dishonors the virtue of those other rape survivors (those who did not have it coming) then you've fit rape into a natural justice system. That's a cornerstone of rape culture.

So, don't pull your honoring deserving rape survivors as your moral superiority, because you're betraying them as you say that.

I had a best friend for four years who owned a tattoo parlor and i have been a part of many groups that live deviant lifestyles (BDSM, Transgendered, Adult Babies) and this movie is a joke. The characters in the film are lunatics. If you ever come across people like this run far away cuz bad sh!t is a coming.


Yes, and I know a lot of doctors who weren't like Mary, or the other doctors in this film. I don't believe the movie dealt with typical people even for atypical lifestyles. Any character it has is not meant to resemble your friends. The "Horror" label should tell you that.

Also, much of the horror wasn't derived from the body mod people, but from Mary herself.

Yes you reap what you sow... but I dont have to watch it and there should be a warning on movies like this or they should care an X rating because the scene with the doctor in suspension is going to stick with me for some time and I wish the producers would have warned me... I think we need a new classification of movies... Because this is not The Shinning... or Camp Sleep Away... or Texas Chainsaw... Movies like this... like the SAW franchise... even Audition... intentionally want to disturbe viewers in a genere where I think they believe the fans have become numb... not all of us have...


You didn't take the genre of horror as a warning from the producers? That's like somebody who goes skydiving and then complains they weren't warned it involved heights. After this has apparently happened to you before, with Saw and TCM, you still haven't figured out you should just take nausea and shock as a normal hazard of the genre?

Some of us actually feel for another human beings suffering and we enjoy Horror movies because we get to watch people face their fears and overcome them.


You do know that it wasn't real, don't you? That nobody was hurt? That what you were shown visually, with sound and in two dimensions was nowhere near as graphic as it would have been if you had been present in real life?

Why should any genre be limited to "facing fears and overcoming them?" You have any idea how fast that would become monotonous, even for you?

American Mary was a tragedy. Mary Mason was a tragic character. She got raped and did the wrong thing to deal with it. Now, it definitely isn't Shakespeare, but it's like MacBeth, where the main character is not sympathetic, where there are horrible scenes in it, and it wasn't about someone facing fear and overcoming it.

So, it wasn't on the theme you prefer for horror movies. It isn't only about shock, though that has much to do with it. Everybody wants to break new ground, and despite what you might think, filmmakers like the Soska twins take horror as their art. They're trying to be original.

To reiterate, I don't think you can talk about empathy with other human beings when you thought Mary deserved to be raped.

This is nothing more then TORTURE PORN . . .


Porn is something that's made especially for sexual stimulation. It's kind of like a sex toy. A lot of works can be used that way, and filmmakers know this, but the question is whether the creator meant it like that. I think the Soska twins would deny this was torture porn. It's bit like saying Puff the Magic Dragon was a drug song. As Mary Travers said, wouldn't I have just written a drug song if I meant it as one? They shot and edited a lot of footage if this was just torture porn, and post it on a website. Really, if it's just all appearance people can go to Youtube for that now, and would.

A writer or filmmaker is always going to be open to to charges like "torture porn" if they relate the horror element to sexual themes. And it sometimes isn't what's intended, though some wouldn't mind if they made more money by people using it as torture porn.

However, what it comes down to is this: we both paid for entertainment. I was entertained; you weren't. So, which of us wins out here?

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That wasn't a roofie. She remembered it. The drug paralyzed her. He wanted her to remember being choked.

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Yes, I agree, apologies if I wasn't clear on that. I made that exact point in my answer to the OP.

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This is why they have taken the word 'date' out of rape in the first place. There is no longer such a classification. Its rape.

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Could have added a spoiler alert lol

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*beep* BULSHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTT

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I'm the first guy to complain about unwarned spoilers, but what did you expect? Did you think the OP was going to say that the reason he couldn't enjoy this mess of a film was because his car broke and he couldn't make it to the theater to see it? Of course this entire thread was going to be full of spoilers, doh!

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All this stuff is obvious if you actually watch and pay attention in the film. First off you have to have something a little wrong with you in the first place to want to be a surgeon, I mean your job is literally cutting into people and a lot of people can't handle that. Second the story is a slow build before the rape, Mary is exposed to more and more until she is raped. First she works on the guy that was hurt and afterwards she was messed up but she dealt with it, then she worked on Ruby which she took better, and finally when she was raped she changed.

I'm sorry but outside of torture rape is probably the most traumatic thing that can happen to a person and is profoundly changes people. Also they don't let onto how long it was from when Mary started on the Dr until she ended up killing him, also she started with the two less extreme bod mods in teeth filing and tongue splitting.

Also she obvious got feeling for him after she helped her with the Dr and later when she found out he had killed the other Dr and got rid of the tape.

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Agreed. I only enjoyed the first part of the movie until the moment Mary started dressing like a slut for attention and got raped (as she deserved, for going to a slicer party with strangers just for selfish and greedy reasons).

I thought the first 40 minutes of the movie were really interesting and were building up for something good. I loved how creepy Nana was and I was almost certain the movie would be centered around this relationship and that Ruby Realgirl and the complications of her body modifications. I was expecting Ruby Realgirl and Nana to seek revenge on Mary or die in an accident and haunt her. At least, that's what I was hoping for.

But instead, we got a cheesy turn of event: Mary gets raped and instantly becomes insane and doesn't care about anything or anyone anymore. That's where the movie started becoming really boring to me. Just like Mary, I started losing interest in everything and everyone in the movie. I just did not care at all and even felt like taking a nap at some point. I've rarely been so angry at a movie for disappointing me like this. I'm especially mad because the movie had potential but it completely blew it.

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You lost me when you said "dressing like a slut for attention. . . ." After that, I know everything you say is worthless.

I'm happy you didn't like film. May the rest of your life feel like as big a waste.

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Good one!

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"dressing like a slut for attention and got raped (as she deserved, for going to a slicer party with strangers"

1) She was wearing a beautiful long gown cocktail gown, completely appropriate for the occasion.
2) It does NOT matter what anyone is wearing. Rape is WRONG period.
3) She was invited by her Instructor, a Surgeon, to a party where other Surgeons would be, (his colleagues & her OTHER instructor,) so she should have assumed she would be SAFE. It's called networking.
4) Nana was her Grandmother on the phone. There was no creepiness there so perhaps you put that name in by mistake?




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1) Mary is conversing with Nana on the phone WAY before she meets any of the people she begins to work for & if you actually LISTEN to their conversations it is plain that Nana is indeed Mary's Grandmother. Mary even speaks to Nana in her own dialect at one point in the film.

2) Mary wears a nice, fashionable gown to the networking party even comparable to those seen on red carpet events such as the Oscars, the Golden Globes, Charity events, etc. The only "skin showing" is her arms & some decolletage, (the neckline of a dress cut low in the front or back and often across the shoulders.) SO using your logic, any woman wearing this type of dress, going to any function where they do not already know EVERYONE there, (which would be MANY woman, often,) deserves to be raped.

By your logic any woman on a beach wearing a bikini surrounded by strangers deserves to be raped.

Also, Mary gets raped by the person she KNOWS & respects the MOST, so again, your idea of "knowing everyone at the party to be safe" does not even save her!

I invite you re-examine your thinking on this topic.

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Why is everyone getting the idea that "Nana" was anybody other than her grandmother? The first scene in the movie she is talking to her on the phone, and also at times throughout the movie.

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ahh this post. omg lol.

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I think she meant how creepy Beatress (Betty Boop) was. Nana was indeed the grandmother.

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"1) She was wearing a beautiful long gown cocktail gown, completely appropriate for the occasion. "

Yeah, totally appropriate dress, especially making sure it highlighted her wonderful tits....

As soon as she put on that dress, my thought was, "Who the hell would go to a work function dressed like that???" Answer: in real life, nobody would. In the movie, perhaps it was entirely appropriate attire to go to a gathering with your future peers... psssshhhht yeah right.

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