MovieChat Forums > Narcopolis (2015) Discussion > Why science fiction like this cant work

Why science fiction like this cant work


In my book, good science fiction is something that is actually plausible as a future destiny.
There is simply no way you can maintain a society that is nonstop jacked up on the latest drug, might as well throw a nuke on your society because it will have the same effect.
Sure its a nice "drugs are bad, dont do it" message but as science fiction? Sorry but nope, not in a million billion years there wouldnt even be a possibility of this ever happening, just no. Thats simply not how you control the masses, what point is there if the masses are non producing because of being high all the time. Thats what you need the masses for, to produce, to keep your society up and running.
Right now theyre playing on the death card very heavily, this is unhealthy, that is deadly, better spend some more bucks to keep it all in check because godforbid you might die one day! ... And their society is running still fine ... somehow, thank god for the brainless masses.
LOL ... god, dont get me started.
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What was the world of 'The Running Man' but a control of the masses through a televised program. So many SCI FI and good stuff has populations doing nothing to further the nation.

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There is a stable economy. The drugged up masses are working drudge jobs to buy legal drugs to feed their habits. It's actually quite a bit like the slums of Victorian England (between the gin and opiate usage). The super wealthy can do whatever they want in their carefully regulated enclaves. In many ways it is perfect for the elite because the masses are doped and don't really care about anything else beyond surviving to the next fix.

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You know that this is how America was for decades right? Heroin, cocaine, cannabis, they were all totally legal and for sale at local stores. Read up on societies set up by civil war veterans who would meet up and binge on the morphine habit a lot had developed. Read up on the fact that smoking opium was first banned as 'chinamen' did it that way while opium was still fine for shooting up or taking as a tablet because that was the normal way, around the same time the US passed laws specifically targeting Asian immigrants. Or the fact cannabis was not banned for any medical reason, but because it was seen as an Hispanic vice more common than alcohol usage, so it was a good way to bust immigrants you wanted an excuse to bust, hence starting to use the Spanish term marijuana. Also hemp was a cheap practical alternative to wood based paper products and William Randolph Hurst, a newspaper tycoon whom citizen Kane is based on and owned a lot of papermills, decided to use his publications to fear monger against a threat to his income. Go read up on the drug hampers people used to buy in luxury department stores like Harrods in London, where you would buy some cocaine and heroin, along with syringe sets, to send to loved ones fighting at the front during world war one to help them relax. Read the original Sherlock holmes stories, written by a doctor of the time, who describes the character shooting up cocaine but it at least being a more harmless vice than alcoholism.

Social historians actually use the term the great binge, and society did not collapse, in fact a lot of the banning of those substances came from the same strain of thinking among temperance movements as the prohibition of alcohol, for puritan values rather than as part of a thought out, medically advised policy of reducing harm.

Drugs cause huge problems, especially those which are chemically addictive, but societies prospered with massive drug use, society still does continue with massive drug use, even with it also being unregulated in ways that could reduce the danger that comes from them being cut and mixed with more toxic substances, fuelling massive gang violence, law enforcement corruption and leading to the removal of many otherwise productive workers from the economy due to incarceration. Current drug policy hasn't stopped epidemic level drug abuse, it just throws a lot of fun extras on top.

Also read up on legion scientific studies of functioning heroin and cocaine users, who instead of being arrested, fired or evicted solely for their drug habit were allowed to continue, and often were able to work, live and pay rent without issue, the same as functioning alcoholics. They still had issues and were leading self destructive lifestyles, but instead of trying to address that like we do with alcoholics, who are simply addicted to a different substance we don't mind, we give other substance abusers extra problems of criminal records, time out from society, end their employment etc even if they are not engaged in or suspected of any other criminal activity. This is also leads to addicts fearing getting help as it means identifying themselves as addicts which can have all kinds of legal issues, say if they ever get in a custody battle a decade later, so more people go without treatment.

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Thx for actually proving my point way better then i couldve explained. Sure, societies still went forward when there wasnt a ban on this or that narcotic. because not 100% of the population was jacked up.
They put a ban on it not to target immigrants but simply because it gives more troubles then benefits.
A society where EVERYONE is on heavy narcotics, is going to collapse in no time. Which would you choose, make it illegal, fuelling crime, or make it legal and see addicts spread like wildfire.

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You are missing the reality. It was massively widespread. The point was certain drugs were banned to target certain groups despite other forms of the drugs not being banned, and other drug users never being arrested or targeted, and decades of nearly all the same hard drugs used today being totally legal with massive addiction rates through out society. Go back and look at the earliest anti drug laws and the surrounding debates. It was exactly to target certain immigrants, and they said so at the time, hence banning smoking opium in new York and San Francisco where there were Chinatowns, but not any other way of taking it, as that was a common Chinese way of taking it, just like making crack cocaine carry a ten times heavier sentence than the same amount of powder cocaine, because black people happened to more commonly use the crack form and politicians wanted to look tough on certain groups in the early 90s, despite no medical evidence that it was any more addictive or damaging than the powder form, more commonly used by upper middle class types like frat boys and stock brokers. Another point, a huge number of wall street professionals and London city boys are known to use cocaine and amphetamines to work longer hours, and when certain people are wanted out of a firm, one way to force them out is demand a random urine sample, because there is a good chance they can then simply fire them for drug use.

It never reached 100% but considering most childhood medications contained hard drugs like opium, that most medicine cabinets contained tonics advertising how much cocaine was in them etc, it was pretty massively widespread as there was no taboo or restriction on just buying heroin and cocaine at the grocery store. Addiction levels were extremely high and society survived because most peoples idea of addiction is only the minority form of it, not how most are affected. Millions of drug addicts go unnoticed because they continue their normal life while also getting high. Going by the size of drug cartels and how much they produce, most drug addicts are not classic Hollywood idea of a junkie, most are working, paying taxes, holding down jobs and snorting coke a few times a day, because there are a lot more than is visible. They just don't get noticed as much, if they get noticed, they usually get their life destroyed, get thrown in a cage with serious criminals, lose their job and home, and end up closer to the classic junkie because they take more and more to deal with the stress and boredom and hopelessness they now face.

The point is that massive drug use across society never caused enough reason to ban those drugs. Drugs started to be banned for either racial politics reasons, or out of puritan religious beliefs that found alcohol an equal threat to society, productivity etc. Prohibition of narcotics was not out of a need to save society. Hence the reefer madness panic, where the problems of drugs had to be exaggerated to get them banned for other political reasons. You know, reefer, that stuff that according to 1950s tv, news reports and movies was highly addictive, leads people to go on raping and killing sprees or turn suicidal. The only way to actually get the drugs banned originally was to lie about the social costs of keeping them legal and regulated. Now a lot of the social costs of the drug problem, are caused by them being illegal, the fact people become social outcasts and outlaws, are unable to get hired so have to commit crime, have no job or prospects or hope so get high more often etc. Again, go look at the studies in mice showing if you give them no stimulus but a button that doses them with drugs, they will keep hitting it and just be high all the time until they waste away, where as the same mouse given activities as well as the option to get high, they still get high, but not as much, it is just one of their activities and don't press the button as much, despite getting the same drug. Same has been found in people though it is harder to conclusively study as research is banned in a lot of countries. People with other things going on in their life because they have not been criminalised, can be addicted and use a few times a day, without getting to the point of being unable to function.

Again, do some research, go look at the start of the war on drugs under the Nixon administration. Members of that administration have admitted the increase in targeting drugs was nothing to do with the public good or crime, it was politics. They were having trouble with civil rights activists and anti war demonstrations and figured blacks and hippys used certain substances regularly, so if they went after that, they could lock up some of their political opponents and discredit their movements and communities overall. To give them political cover, they commissioned a neutral study into the societal effects of drug use, which determined there was no reason for cannabis to be illegal and that it made more sense to legalise or decriminalise and then treat hard drug addicts if the goal was to reduce social harm. So the Nixon white house simply buried the report and pretended the experts believed the opposite. If they had been having problems with energy drink hooked millenials, chain smoking old geezers, heavy drinking communities or say Rush Limbaugh, and they thought they could get away with it, they would have simply started a war on caffeine, nicotine, alcohol or prescription drug abuse instead and started highlighting the health issues and claiming that all manner of social ills were connected.

The reefer madness idea the media and government pushed for decades was clearly false as no you cannot overdose, no it is not chemically addictive, no it does not lead to extreme violence or suicidal tendencies, yet that was known to be true, because the facts were twisted. Society survived with overwhelming abuse of modern narcotics like full strength heroin for decades without any big issues or calls for prohibition until it was done for white is right and religious temperance movement reasons, the war on drugs itself was just another sleaze ball tactic of an administration that also used targeted IRS audits and the security services to target their critics and opponents, the head of the DEA still maintains in congressional hearings that cannabis is as bad as heroin. None of this stuff is based on the reality of decriminalisation.

Addicts are already spreading like wild fire, just right now they fuel mobsters shooting it out for sales turf on top of the actual problems. Take away lobbying and 'studies' funded by alcohol companies that don't want competition from other recreational substances, from pharmaceutical companies that do not want people being able to grow their own pain medication in their yard that is non addictive and impossible to overdose on to threaten the profits they try to grow by rewarding doctors who over prescribe expensive pain pills, take away law enforcement agencies that get a lot of funding from criminal asset forfeiture and who use 'I thought I smelt cannabis' anytime they get caught pulling over or arresting someone of a certain background without cause, and by for profit prisons who have fuelled an explosion in incarceration on the back of the drug war, and you really wont find a lot of actual unbiased evidence for the situation you are imagining. It is a mass hysteria fuelled by some very powerful groups, ie politicians who have found a tough on crime niche to get re-elected, law enforcement agencies that need to excuse bigger budgets as actual crime rates drop across the developed world for 25 years while somehow the number of people who need to be locked up is ever increasing only in the USA at the same time, and big businesses with trillions of dollars on the line.

P.s. You are probably perfectly well meaning, but you sound like a lot of speeches from the prohibition of alcohol era. There are speeches exactly like what you said when they were fighting to keep it illegal despite the explosion in violence and organised crime. I cannot remember the name so cannot cite it but there is one which basically goes, ok so the mobsters may have taken over Chicago and other cities, but I say it is worth it if the alternative is to allow liquor to destroy this whole country through a plague of drunkenness. I don't know about you but personally I think Budweiser and jack daniels being on sale at the store is preferable to mobsters producing it, mixing in the odd bit of kerosene or embalming fluid, and having shoot outs in the street with military weaponry like Thompson sub machine guns which outgunned the police and bombing each others speakeasies even if they were full of people. Drugs are available in every town and county anyway, all prohibition does is add extra troubles, like a nation with 5% of the global population having 25% of the global prison population, those narcotics being cut with more toxic but easier to acquire cutting agents, gang violence, massacres in countries that are losing control of regions to cartel control and corruption, which threatens international security, and entirely productive people having their lives destroyed because of the same idea behind, hey, if whiskey is legal, no one is going to work, society will collapse as everyone just gets drunk all the time and becomes useless bums.

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