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Second Time When Alec blames Kiera for Emily's death wrongly


Pet peeve of mine; writers make characters do stupid things like this:

Alec tells Kiera that Emily would "still be alive" if not for Kiera's decision to go after the time travel device instead of staying beside Emily.

But Emily did not die because Kiera was not beside her. Emily died because she stood up to yell at the shooters and threw the device, and then remained standing, out of cover, in the line of fire. Kiera can't be held accountable for Emily's suicidal actions.

Second pet peeve of mine; writers make other characters take blame for stuff they are guiltless of.
Kiera tacitly apologizes to Alec for Emily's death, by failing to correct Alec when he blamed her and saying I thought I was doing the right thing.

It is a small thing I guess, but this stuff bugs me. There is too much of this blaming innocent people for the bad things that happen in life, and too much coddling of those who do.

When Alec said "You should have been by her side. That's what you were supposed to do, if you had, she'd still be alive" I thought, oh no, not that crap.

I wanted Kiera to say something like "well Alec, I warned her to take cover but the f-tard just stood there until they shot her. It wouldn't have mattered if I had been beside her."

Then later, Alec winked at Kiera, indicating that the whole scene was theater to fool Escher.
So I was glad to see that Alec wasn't really serious.

This is my second time through the series. I know that later on Alec screws Kiera over by using the only time travel trip to go back and save Emily. In doing so he sets up a paradox with two young Alec Sadlers in the same time line.



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This is my second time through the series. I know that later on Alec screws Kiera over by using the only time travel trip to go back and save Emily. In doing so he sets up a paradox with two young Alec Sadlers in the same time line.
I don't think he screwed Kiera over.

Alec knows that Kellogg didn't die when he saw his grandmother die. Kiera knows that Kellogg didn't die when he saw his grandmother die. So they both should know the branch of time Kellogg and Kiera came from is insulated from events on their current branch of time. They should both realize that Kiera can't return to her own adorable Sam, that Alec can't save his Emily.

Second, how are two instances of Alec, or two instances of Kiera, on a branch of time, a paradox?

Kellogg didn't die because Maddie, the young woman he thought was his grandmother was only the local doppelganger of his grandmother. His real grandmother's personal timeline is safely insulated from changes, back on his original branch of time.

Kiera could never return to their original branch of time, at least not with the time-sphere technology. The time-sphere technology seems to have only allowed travels to go to their own past, or to a future that could unfold from their current present, and the arrival of a traveler from the future always trigger a branch to fork, resulting in two branches.

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They should both realize that Kiera can't return to her own adorable Sam, that Alec can't save his Emily.


But... they don't.

Alec screwed Kiera over by tricking her into bringing the time sphere, telling her she would be the one travelling, knowing he was going to be the one, not her.


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[deleted]

how are two instances of Alec, or two instances of Kiera, on a branch of time, a paradox?
I don't know. According to that time travel policing organization it destabilizes the world somehow. In 12 Monkeys (the series) when an object, a watch, was carried back through time and placed next to the watch in that timeline it caused a powerful explosion. It's hard for me to object to this destabilizing idea because a time travel paradox is something I have no evidence about, not even theoretical. So I just buy whatever the writers want to suggest about it.


I love this show. I post about stuff that seems a bit off sometimes just cause I like to see what other people think about it. But I love the show.
Just about every show has quirky things, plot lines which require viewers to suspend disbelief so they can buy the story and enjoy it. I usually just do that.


Sometimes I see things which irritate me a little bit. Like the episode when Julian shot Carlos and his gang took Kiera, Carlos, and Julian's parents hostage at the farmhouse. When the police negotiator called Julian identified himself as his dad. He basically told the cops his dad was the bomb maker/hostage taker a.k.a. the terrorist.
He could have told them the truth but he didn't. Maybe he wanted to protect his own identity in that moment.
But until he did that the police were only working on a theory that his dad was the terrorist. Julian confirmed that theory to the police. He told them his dad was the terrorist.

After his dad was shot Julian blames the cops saying "they shot him in cold blood". He doesn't ever take responsibility for labeling his dad as a terrorist, not then or ever.

And nobody else ever calls him on it. Kiera or Alec or somebody should have said to him:
"It's your fault the cops shot your dad. If you hadn't told them he was the terrorist he would still be alive. Quit blaming others for your own doing."

That would have been nice to see. But I guess it would not have worked well in the story. Julian has to be this angry character who sees himself as fighting the establishment. It wouldn't work well for him to accept responsibility for his own actions. That would make it harder for him to blame and demonize 'the system'.

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First, goodbye! Some of us wrote comments here that were worth reading at the time, and worth reading months, years, decades later. Amazon is unwise to trash that history. Mind you many comments here aren't even worth reading once.

I too loved this show, even more when more recent shows, in which I include the 12 monkeys series, fall short in comparison.

12 monkeys disappointed me, and I stopped watching after half a dozen episodes.

When a re-run of the Continuum farm episode is rebroadcast I will record it, and look for the points you noted. In Julian's defense, he starts off as still an irresponsible teenager, less grown up than Alec. The series shows him growing, and he is equally heroic as Alec.

Yeah, I continue to think multiple instances of Alec, Kiera, Kellogg, do not constitute a paradox, if set in a multiverse where time machines are physically possible. It is one of the problems I had with 12 monkeys making putting the old and new watches together causing an explosion. The watch is not made of anything really exotic. Its components don't have any supernatural ingredients. It is just made of steel, copper, maybe titanium, gold, maybe silicon, if it is digital. Atoms of copper are indistinguishable from one another. There is no way the watches can recognize that the other watch is made of the exact same atoms.

Worse, the bad guys assassinate people by stabbing them in the chest with knives made from their breast bone. Well, anabolism and catabolism, our bodies natural metabolism means that the molecules in our body are recycled and excreted during cell maintenance. The before and after breastbones won't contain the same atoms.

What if you ground up the old watch, into dust? Would that dust trigger one of those paradox explosions? And where does the energy for that explosion come from?

In episode 1.1 Cole and the lovely Damsel in Distress are being questioned by the bad guys. Cole arranges for the explosion, when the before and after watches are placed too close to one another, killing everyone in the room. But, because he is a time traveler, he is capable of a burst of superspeed, and is capable of outrunning the explosion, carring the lovely damsel in his arms.

It is a capability that just doesn't make sense. Does he ever take advantage of this capability in future episodes?

I occasionally tuned in a random episode. I got the impression the producers never really thought out whether the model of time they were going to use was a single-threaded one, or a multiverse.

You are correct that, even in the final episode, young Alec says he doesn't know whether Kiera will end up on here original dark 2077, in Kellogg's dark 2077, or yet another 2077. Yeah, I think the evidence was there for a smarty-pants like him to realize she could only end up in a 2077 that was the direct outcome of the 2015 she was transmitted from. But maybe he wasn't as smart as he thought he was.

That episode was recently rebroadcast, and Kellogg says something about his personal experience with a paradox, but I don't see his survival when the lovely young girl was shot as a paradox. She wasn't his grandmother, she was the doppelganger of his grandmother, on the current branch of time. Kellogg's actual grandmother is safe back on the original dark branch of time, from episode 1.1. Similarly, the adorable Sam we see in the Carlos Fonegra Park, in the good 2077, is not our Kiera's adorable Sam, he is merely her adorable Sam's doppelganger. Her own adorable Sam is being raised by her husband, now a single dad, in the original dark 2077.

Except, the 2077 where evil old Alec first arranged for the first launch of the time sphere he developed, or helped develop, could only happen if Alec was born, and since Escher/Mark Sadler was a time traveler, there is the branch of time where Escher was born, and, on that branch of time there was no Alec Sadler.

Cheers!

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Except, the 2077 where evil old Alec first arranged for the first launch of the time sphere he developed, or helped develop, could only happen if Alec was born, and since Escher/Mark Sadler was a time traveler, there is the branch of time where Escher was born, and, on that branch of time there was no Alec Sadler.

Yes you're right.
I don't think the writers figured anyone would catch that. These impossibilities always seem to crop up in time travel plots.
Usually I notice the chicken and egg type issues. Some guy goes back in time and falls in love with his mother, and his son is his father, or something like that.

This one is a twist; Escher goes back in time, creating a new time line in which he fathers a son who is born before he is, and in a different time line. Crazy stuff.

That is half the fun of time travel shows, trying to figure out how it could work out right, and it never really does.
Just showing up in the past changes the past. You might say something to somebody and because of that influence their life path in a different direction. Taking into account all the 6 degrees of separation life connections, your presence could change everything, theoretically.

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The guy who plays Escher is great at playing intense, focused Alpha males. Maybe, if they had seven full seasons, this apparent anomaly could have been explained. Since Continuum was cancelled there have been more than half a dozen new science fiction shows. Other people like them as much, or more, than Continuum.

Some are utter BS, unwatchable, I am looking at you Lucifer, Sleepy Hollow. Yet, apparently, many IMDB commenters loved them.

I offered my main comment on Amazon's decision to close the message boards, here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4846340/board/nest/265343300?d=265816704#265816704

I offered one of my email addresses - email:[email protected] - to anyone here who found anything I wrote here worthy of further comment, who wished to correspond with me.

Cheers! Best wishes everyone!

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