MovieChat Forums > Great Expectations (2012) Discussion > Dislike the fact they cut out an importa...

Dislike the fact they cut out an important character

posted 12 years ago by HannahBanana123
18 replies | jump to latest

I'm a big fan of the book and the exclusion of Biddy is troubling for me!

She is important in the book because she provides that contrast between the earthy warm average looking girl and the unreachable cold beauty. The struggle that Pip has with the two girls is a vital part of his journey. She also teaches Pip and Joe to read and she gives Joe the happy ending he deserves!

Also Joe is not vulnerable enough in the adaptation. He is too proud whereas in the book he is more vulnerable and loveable whilst still maintaining that pride. In the book he is hopelessly awkward when he visits Pip and it's so endearing whereas in this adaptation he is a bit more confident with himself. The relationship between Joe and Pip didn't have quite enough airtime, again I think this is a vital part of the story!

Older Pip is just not cast right. I feel nothing towards his portrayal at all. I don't care for the character! Very wooden actor and looks like a Burberry model (oh wait - he is!)

Estella and Pip are just not right together either - as has been mentioned on these threads, the actor playing Pip is probably three times as good looking as the actress playing Estella (she's still pretty though! Just not compared to him...) She also looks a lot older than him. So that unreachable star (estella) element doesn't quite work. :/ Someone else mentioned on there that she's not seductive enough... so true! She is meant to be more playful to contrast with the fact she can easily rip your heart out. She is so dull and average! At that ball she did not stand out amongst those girls and she is meant to!

Maybe I am being too critical! I am enjoying the series and I know it can't follow the book exactly but I think at least get the characters right!

I also feel it's a tad sexed up for ratings.

I think Herbert Pocket (Harry Lloyd) and Magwitch (Ray Winstone) are perfectly cast, as was the younger Pip and Orlick. Undecided on Miss Havisham, I think the actress is doing the best she can with the role and is quite good she is just not how I quite imagined her....

I think if you haven't read the book then it's still a great series but I can't help but notice the little bits of Dickens magic being lost!

[–] By-TorX-1 12 years ago

Since one of the girls presented to Pip at the ball was a dead ringer for Audrey Tautou, no, Estella didn't stand out at all!

I am the Walking Dude.

[–] GladtobeGrey 12 years ago

I absolutely agree about Biddy - she was a lovely character in the book and an important one. She shouldn't have been left out. I also understand what you mean about Estella and Pip, although personally I think she does the cold ice maiden quite well. She was older than him in the book (about two years I think) but you're right, she does look seem a bit older. Perhaps it's to accentuate the difference in their apparent social positions.
Also agree that Ray Winstone was PERFECT as Magwitch, a role he was born to play in my opinion. As for Miss Havisham, we are so used to seeing her portrayed as very old from the moment Pip meets her but of course she was only in her 50s. I thought Gillian Anderson did a fair job and I that the increasing decay of both her and Satis House throughout the programme was subtle and well done.
As for 'sexed up' - I just thank the lord that Andrew Davies had no part in the production or we may have had Pip striding out of the Thames in wet breeches and shirt! :)

[–] laurendorward-990-190608 12 years ago

She is described as being very old, so even though only in her 50's she is like a dead person walking, and I feel Anderson was far to young looking to play her, and her voice was very, very annoying, I just couldn't come behind it. Bad casting imo.

[–] catpetal-1 12 years ago

Miss Havisham is described by Pip as very fine, and very strange; as cross between a waxwork and a skeleton - but not as very old.

She tells him she has not seen the light of day since he was born - but then, he's no more than a boy when she says that. She cannot be very old; it makes no sense within the plotline. A woman in her 40s makes far more sense. And that's Gillian Anderson's age. She plays her as stuck as that girl waiting to be married, which makes complete sense, since she effectively stopped time at that moment. Not only that, but Anderson has considerable experience and a fantastic track record as an exceptionally talented actress.

So - interesting and entirely logical casting, imo.

[–] austendw 12 years ago

A woman in her 40s makes far more sense...

When precisely? At the begining or end? Bearing in mind that some 16 years pass between the opening scenes and the main action of the drama (in the novel at least)...

Martita Hunt, in the 1946 version, was only 46, perhaps three years older than Anderson, and wasn't wearing piles of ageing make-up, but she looked, not exactly old, but somehow past her prime - which is surely implied by "waxwork" and "skeleton". Let's also not forget that in the novel Miss Havisham has a walking stick and is wheeled around the banquet table in a wheel-chair:http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-T5slQRJPIrI/TV6rJUcB_6I/AAAAAAAAAH8/QKy_xZA2 LBg/s320/article-1291188-00D174FE00000190-710_233x423.jpg

People aged differently once upon a time, I guess. 43 is the new 33. And Anderson looks much younger than her actually age would signify when the novel was written - even with all the white make-up and chapped lips:http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/12/19/article-2075956-0F2AB5010000 0578-294_468x494.jpg

Helena Bonham-Carter - the next screen Havisham - though more or less the same age as Martita Hunt when she played the role, also looks rather younger. She's positively flourishing here:
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/39/2011/11/163e4129108aa37 7ffcceba6e9959d3a.jpg
... though to be fair one must wait an see quite how she plays the role.

Call me Ishmael...

[–] rideyourgreenbike 12 years ago

There is ANOTHER film adaptation with Helena Bonham-Carter as Miss Havisham??

[–] austendw 12 years ago

Yes:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1836808/combined

Call me Ishmael...

[–] zak-jftj 12 years ago

According to Dickens' working notes, Miss Havisham had her heart broken 5-6 years before Pip and Estella were born. In the last stage of Pip's Expectations, Pip was about 23 and Miss Havisham 56, therefore at the beginning of the story (when Pip was about 7) Miss Havisham was exactly 40.

[–] austendw 12 years ago

For the record, an appendix to the Penguin edition of "Great Expectations", which I glanced at today, gives Dickens' notes regarding the ages of the characters: At the climax of the narrative, Pip, Estella and Herbert are all about 23; Miss Havisham is 56; Magwitch 60; and Compeyson about 53 (younger than Miss Havisham).

Pip remembers that he was about 7 when he first met Magwitch - so that took place 16 years earlier. If we presume that Pip met Miss Haversham perhaps a year after the novel's opening scene, then she would have been about 41.

When Pip goes to London he's about 19; Herbert tells him that Miss Haversham was jilted about 25 years earlier, when Miss Havisham was around 27 and Compeyson 24ish.

Of course, people seem to have aged far more quickly in those days than now. Here's a photo of Dickens dated to 1867-68, when he was 55-56:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Dickens_Gurney_head .jpg

He looks about ten years older, no?

Call me Ishmael...

[–] supergran 12 years ago

Here's a photo of Dickens dated to 1867-68, when he was 55-56

Blimey, the same age as me! Look at the crow's feet and eyebags. Hope I've weathered a bit better. Thanks be to Oil of Olay.

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- What kind of sycophant would you like me to be?

[–] Screenterrier 12 years ago

Biddy will be played by Jessie Cave in the upcoming film version, just perfect casting I think!

www.screenterrier.com

[–] Flossieandflo 12 years ago

I agree it just wasn't right without Biddy for all the reasons the original OP so eloquently describes - I also agree Joe wasn't vulnerable and gentle enough (and I don't thinks he said "What larks" once).

[–] greenegg 12 years ago

Herein lies the reason I detest so many of these unnecessary remakes, when there are perfectly marvelous versions available. Leaving out major characters dooms a production from the start. Biddy must be included in any legitimate production; not only does she teach Pip and Joe to read, but she also offers Pip a crucial female sounding board/conscience and serves as nurse/housekeeper for the injured Mrs. Gargery. Later, she brings Joe the happiness he so richly deserves.

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[–] thbryn 12 years ago

Biddy was a big part of the Ioan Gruffudd version.

"No Jews, or Negroes and very few Catholics and that's because I'm Catholic."

[–] GeorgiaLass 12 years ago

IMO that was a better version. It was more true to the original work.

A main theme in the book is the difference between where Pip comes from and the world that he aspires to. That's really not considered in this adaptation. Dickens is probably rolling over in his grave.

[–] WeatherViolet 12 years ago

Yes, I was eagerly awaiting the arrival of Biddy, as well as John Wemmick's Aged P, who also unfortunately does not show.

It seems certainly a rushed adaptation, and perhaps carefully budgetted, but to erase Biddy and Aged P plus a few other characters seems untenable.

"Ability is of little account without opportunity." -- Lucille Ball

[–] Bernie-56 12 years ago

Exactly the same thought occurred to me at the end of Part 1. Your observations are spot-on: the Dickens' magic was lost. Who is going to teach Pip to read and write -- and marry Joe? were my thoughts. That omission made me more critical and shortly after that I abandoned watching the production.

[–] oma8 11 years ago

I totally agree with you. I was surprised that they omitted Biddy. Also the casting for Pip and Estella were horrible. Pip's looks and demeanor are so annoying and Estella's beauty doesn't stand out.