When God became a man to show the world he was God in Flesh, and performed miracles and professed teachings for love of others, ardent individuals set in their own ways and beliefs became atheistic to his claims, and killed him. Goes to show how far atheism goes to reject the truth. Way to go....
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You forgot to say 'Bro.
It's supposed to be, "Way to go ... 'Bro."
No, I'm pretty sure it was the bit where they stabbed him with a spear.
share> I'm pretty sure it was the bit where they stabbed him with a spear.
Actually, it was the thing where they left him to bake in the sun and dehydrate to death.
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What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?
And it was atheists that stabbed him and crucified him, according to the OP.
My translation must be faulty.
Janet! Donkeys!
Goes to show how far atheism goes to reject the truthThank God Christians never hurt anyone to promote their 'truth'.
One of the smartest things I have seen today.
Exterminate!
Lmao Nice one ;)
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I ate my twin in the womb. :<
Thank whatever that atheists and agnostics have never hurt anybody.
Of course it's true that people professing to be Christians have hurt other people in ways that are specifically against the tenets of Christianity. So have people professing to be Buddhists, or peace protesters, or atheists.
Of course, the OP's point is wrong. It wasn't "atheists" who killed Christ at all. This side discussion really is quite irrelevant, and is just anothe reason for antireligionists and proreligionists to get their shots in and high-five each other in congratulation for imagined victory. It's actually useless relative to any substantive evaluation of the claims of God-believers, Christians, or any other religious believers.
Good.
If you've heard of it, it's already too mainstream for me.
A few things wrong with this. First off, Jesus' peers were not Christian. The term was coined long after he died. Then is the fact that the Romans (who killed Jesus) were not atheist, they were Pagan. Then, also is that there were several other pagans and bedoins in the area. I'm sure there were atheists around but you needn't think that someone who is not Christian is atheist.
(This is my signature line. Do not confuse it with the contents of my post.)
It was actually the Pharisees and the Jewish religious authority that wanted Christ dead, because they felt him to be in blasphemy against God. They felt he was making a false claim or stance as God, or being the Messiah. In honesty, he never once claimed to be God or the Jewish Messiah, whom they were expecting to be some great military leader king to unite the Jews and throw out the Romans. However, Christ was much different. Though he never once made those claims he was charged for, he never denied them either. This is where a lot of "Christians" claim the divinity of Christ and all that stuff.
The most Christ claimed to be was the son of God, the son of man, and that he and the father were one. I believe that Christ and God are separate entities, but one in the same spirit. That is, Christ is not actually God, but a servant of God, who carries God's spirit with him everywhere. It is in this sense that Isaiah 7:14, predicting the birth of Christ, is correct in calling him Immanuel, which in Hebrew means "God is with us." Christ imo, was the messiah predicted. However, he was killed for this reason by religious folks who used Roman law to prosecute him, since they could not do it under their law. So yeah, he was killed by religious authorities who had Roman pagans carry it out for them.
Not Atheists. In that day and age, atheists would have been barbarically slaughtered by almost anyone, including pagan cultures. I'm glad we've come out of such times as those, but 'alas, things are still messed up these days too.
Hi, Doc (Docryanov)
Love what you said -- good stuff. But if Christ said, "I and the father are ONE" and "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father" and Isaiah calls the promised one "Emmanuel" meaning "God is with us" -- then how can you justify Christ being anything other than pure deity?
Christ is said to be the WORD of God in the sense that He is an exact representation, even the Word being with God, and being God Himself. The Word became flesh and dwelled among us. It doesn't say that a servant of God merely carried the word into the world. That's our job, via the Holy Spirit. Christ Himself WAS the word made flesh IN the world, and IS the Word of God. God's self.
Hey man, I am well aware I can be wrong. I obviously don't know everything. However, I don't think just because he said he and the father are one, necessarily means he was saying he is the entity known as God himself. I mean, can you not claim that you and Christ are one? Does this mean you are literally Christ? Of course not. It can mean you are of the same spirit though (even though none of us can truly reach the level he was).
I don't know if such a thing truly matters though, I think what matters most is his message and his way that he demonstrated. Whether or not he actually is God is something that will be revealed to me in time, and I hope he doesn't judge me on the basis of whether or not I believe that to be the case or not.
No problems here -- I would never claim personally that I am One With or At One with Christ, or God. however.
What I DO understand is, when (if) you hear ME talking, do you hear my WORDS or do you hear ME? You might say they are the same.
That goes for Christ, and Christ's relation to God the Father.
Technically I am NOT my words -- but when you hear my words you hear me. That's about the only analogy I can give. It's not perfect. I know.
Keep reading John's gospel and also the book of Hebrews (not sure who wrote Hebrews but it explains SO MUCH about Christ's relationship to/with God the Father. I hope you haven't been turned against the idea that God is Triune because there are those who have rejected the concept and its the only one that really works.
I don't think you'd be judged negatively for being wrong on this issue, however. You seem to understand Christ's message and salvation and that's all that matters.
Cheers.
Indeed friend, I have often pondered this question. It is a most intriguing one, and history has shown that the question is one that comes up often. Thanks for your insights!
shareThe New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967) discusses the Trinity at length and admits: ?The Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention. . . . The formulation ?one God in three Persons? was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.?
So basically the belief that Jesus and God we're equal or the same was created by the church and not a teaching of Christ. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise because it's a false teaching. Your thinking and reasoning is correct on this matter, most people blindly follow what information has been handed down to them without making a thorough search. Trust me the truth is out there among the many counterfeits and it's not that hard to find but be careful not to accept misinformation that is completely illogical such as the trinity, (a word that's not even mentioned in the bible). Nobody can explain it because the very concept was created to confuse people. You can question the worlds most renowned preachers, ministers or professors of theology and they won't be able to explain this teaching because it's a downright lie. The best answer they can come up with is "you can't understand it, nobody can because it's possible to understand"...so yes that's true it is impossible to understand because it's a lie. The worship of pagan gods grouped in threes, or triads, was also common before Jesus was born. The very concept was adapted from Egyptian and Indian religions.
Should say "it's impossible to understand" not "it's possible"
shareSo if Christ KNEW he was God, then why did he cry out "Father forgive them for they know not what they do!" as he was being crucified, was he talking to himself? Reminding himself "Note to self: when I get killed and get zippity zappitied back to heaven, remember not to extinguish mankind from earth."?
How about when Christ cried out to his father and confessed to him that he was afraid for his life before he was "caught"? Again, I doubt he was talking to himself.
"It's so simple a six year old could figure it out."
"Quick! Someone get a six year old!"
You know about the trinity right? The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. Jesus was calling out to His Father who is our Heavenly Father.
Jesus is above all, my Lord and Savior. He died for me and I live my life for Him.
as everyone knows, the son in god thing was copied from other religions by christians-Egyptian Horus, Norse Odin, Greek, Roman-numerous others
shareThe Romans were barbaric slaughterers and oppressive tyrants...you really think public outcry would have stopped them if they wanted to go ahead? There was public outcry about taxes (probably more than Jesus' reputation) and it not only didn't stop them but many people died for their protestations. Blaming anyone but the Romans is using the Charles Manson defense "I didn't do anything, I was at home when this happened." The Romans say "we didn't do anything, they made us.'
(This is my signature line. Do not confuse it with the contents of my post.)
The romans were actually rather lenient as conquerors go, they generally let provinces govern themselves as long as they would pay taxes and raise men for the army. These protests against taxes took the form of killing roman citizens and soldiers, and so were delt with like they would deal with any other insurrection.
shareNot only that, they kept very extensive records.
No record of Herod's 'masacre of the innocents', no record of a crucifixion as reported in the New Testament, Salome's head cut off by ice (no mention of John the Baptist) - but you can't argue with those who 'believe' because they believe so it must be true.
The 'believers here don't believe in Zeus, Thor, Mercury, Ra, Ganesha, they believe in their god - the one god of Christians, Jews and Muslems, its just that atheists believe in one less god than them.
"It was actually the Pharisees and the Jewish religious authority that wanted Christ dead, because they felt him to be in blasphemy against God
Remember there's a great bulk of the Jewish population that could have cared less because they were turned into the Greek/Hellenes for all pratical purposes, since Alexanders conquering Israel & Egypt 325BC. The fact is that a great many Jews were happy as clams to be free of this strict archaic religious nonsense & live more like the Hellenes.
Religious orthodox madman zealouts much like in Islam today that hates any frivolity, music, arts & sports, the very same things the Hellenist Jew would have embraced and they were a great majority. They were even holding a version of the Olympic games in Israel then, much to the chagrin of the Maccabean madmen.
One examines the work of Josephus on the siege of Masada, that almost 1000 Jewish daggermen chose to die rather than be taken prisoner, yet they found only three skeletons in the famous excavations in the 1960s? What happened to all those brave "heros" that chose suicide over capture? They were constantly raiding the nearby villages, we find these brave warriors killing 700 fellow Jews in just one nearby Ein Gedi village night raid from Masada, taking all their food & supplies, killing them all. That's just the real truth of the matter, a sober impartial realistic look back on human history, without the undesirable hysteria of ultra orthodox religionist influence.
He pretty much did claim himself as god. The term "son of god" is saying that he is of god because the term "son of" was an ancient term that people of that time used in describing personages of contingent/immaterial realities (ex: Judas, Son of Perdition).
You also have to remember, that the books of the New Testament were all canonized around the 300's by the Nicene and there are so many historical sources of early Christianity, especially during the events of Nero which all document that christianity always believed Jesus was god. Since the Bible was not yet produced during that time, those christians had to develop that belief of the Jewish god becoming man somewhere. It has been written by guys like Plinny, Lucian, and Celsus that Christ was accused for blasphemy and that blasphemy was obviously making himself to be god. Believing that or not is up to you, but there is no doubt that Jesus thought himself to be god and said it.
A few things wrong and still you missed the biggest fault of it all. There are no proof that any person even similar to the Cheezus of the bible have even existed.
shareIf simply not believing in a sketchy, badly translated, zero evidence story, was enough to 'kill' Jesus, then Yahweh really needs a better PR team.
Because for such an omni-present and all powerful being, Yahweh is a terrible communicator!
Actually, you got it all flipped around.
It's not that God is a terrible communicator, it's that we are terrible listeners.
Agreed, docryanov, and very well said!
Honestly, if so many people having debates over the Bible can't get the clearly stated basics out of it, but claim to know much more than believers about it, the disconnect isn't from "Bible to us" but is instead "us to Bible," indeed.
Theres a quote that says "The burden of communication is on the communicator"
...you would think an all-intelligent being would know that and make itself crystal clear, instead of leaving it up to interpretation, guess work and bad translation
I wonder why god made us terrible listeners. Seems counterproductive if he's trying to make sure we receive his messages.
shareSeriously, shut up.
Atheism didn't kill Jesus
I am an atheist.
If Jesus exists, he's being tortured. It's in the Bible. It's actually good for Christians to read the Bible. It's another step in the direction of faith, or the direction of agnosticism and atheism. If you really want to believe and rag on atheists, then reading the Bible would be a good start.
Seriously, it's not just atheists. There are BILLIONS of non believers, the atheists are less than 1 percent of them. Most are Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Confucians, among others. Also, if you're in a protestant branch, even a major one, probably less than .5% of the world's population actually believes in your version of Chrsitianity.
Sorry. I sound like a jerk. But it is what I believe. I don't know any other way to phrase it.
Please don't take this personally. Don't want to hurt anyone :(
Well, since there is no evidence whatsoever that this Jesus existed (outside of biblical reference) and none of the authors of the four gospels were alive at the time that any of these 'miracles' would have taken place, I think it's safe to say that there's serious doubt as to whether a hippie with magical powers ever existed, let alone was killed by Romans.
Religion rewards those who leave rationality at the door. It's the reason it's losing ground in the modern age.
there is plenty of evidence.
shareOh really??? Please tell us. And don't talk about eye witness accounts or reference the bible. That book is man made fiction and pretty awful to begin with. Just because I quote Lord of the Rings does not prove the existence of Gandolf.
Religion is for those afraid of going to hell and spirituality is for those whom have already been there:)
Please provide some of this evidence. Thanks!
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