Wire-work, CGI...

Agreed, the whole point of his earlier stuff was to go against that american style action film, and bring it back to practical effects & actually talented leading men. There was some good stuff here and there in this, but all you remember is the bad cgi because it's SO bad.

Between this and the ong bak sequels not delivering, I hope Jaa starts going back to where he started in terms of his movies...


"What? Do you wanna just sit around and be wrong?" - Liz Lemon

As my signature states (It's truth as well) - The Protector was my favorite Jaa film, and I was / am not a huge Jaa fan due to his stunt sequences seeming to all be set up in a row; in other words "For this 5 minute run scene we will have 30 stunt jumps wether it be over a car then under, through barbed wire, wall running, shoulder run/jumping, for a street to have so many items or things going on that just /would not be there/" always made him seem as if he was trying to show off that he was doing his own stunts like Jackie Chan style; except butchering it by just throwing sequences of constant stunt work in a segment when these could have been thrown around all over the film in smaller segments to a much more impressive over-all feel. I also feel that he just copy and pastes what Jackie has already done, while initially generating buzz for being another "All my own stunts" martial artist but by throwing in Muy Thai is the only thing that kept my interest; to see how the style worked in an action film / films; (Not to the degree of Chocolate which literally takes "Rumble in the Bronx"'s fight scene / prop use (changes refridgerators with lockers) and basically copy and pastes it; unexciting) -

After Onk Bak and The Protector it was evident that Tony Jaa may be a wonderful Muy Thai martial artist and can show it off well; but just as any member of the Jackie Chan Stunt team will tell you - You need to be excellent in as many forms of Martial Arts as possible (along with gymnastics / be willing to take the real falls and hits) in order to make exciting fight sequences - Jackie Chan turned 60 a few days ago; and still his newest films incorporate a mixture of endless styles in every fight; this is what keeps Jackie Chan's fight scenes so interesting; he's created his own formula -

Just to add on a note; While Jet Li was initially all Wushu with some "Jeet Kune Doe stylized looks in some film fights"; He still is pretty much all Wushu; it's far too one sided to give moments of "WOW I didn't see that coming!" (take the end fight of CZ12 for example; we see some familiar Jackie Chan moves, then things we've never seen before (I wish I knew the name of the scissor grapple take down he uses on 3 of the security guards, but I am very sure it is of an Indian Martial Arts- correct me if I am wrong) - Then implementing the near countless styles and variations of styles with props also keeps interest as it keeps the unique / fresh meter of what you are watching (with many "Let me see that again, he just did what with WHAT?") -

Now with all of this said; Even in Jackie's early films we had the Chair fighting (period piece; Chinese wooden chairs that are similiar to very small benches) and some other environmental objects being used; along with traditional weapons (swords, spears etc) - I don't believe a JC film exists that contains only one or two styles and pure fighting, nor would I find that interesting;

Although - in 4-5 years I'd love to see a nothing but fighting "Ascending a Tower" for example - period piece where say... Jackie is this Master; and his school was raided and many left dead with his (main student, wife, however it may be) being kept as a hostage in a trade agreement for the mastering of the technique/s that the film chooses (can be made up form of martial arts etc) - and just keep the action flowing in variations on 1v1, 1v2, 1v8, 1v4; etc concentrating on closer angled fist work and zoomed out kicks; with an emphasis on punching and direct connection techniques; the 1v8s or 1v10s should show absolute dominance against the opponents, while the 1v1 fights should always be challenging - This is something I've thought about for years for a "Middle 60's Jackie Chan balls to the walls throwback piece that is not like anything he's done before; He has been doing serious roles that involve martial arts; - he's played the master now; lets just see the master go on his own mission to save what he cherishes most - it could be the swansong that displays all of Jackie's martial arts abilities and techniques; throw in minimal stunt moves to some of the fights (While he hasn't slowed down that much at 60; 65ish is a big gap) - have two medium stunts and one ending "super stunt" (doesn't have to be insanity; - I believe the slide down the building in Who Am I as a Super Stunt and believe Jackie could do that again right now with just as much (if not more) finesse; I just don't expect a Police Story 3 style jump to a rope ladder -laughs-)

Sorry for the Chan rant above; I just believe despite how some feel about recent films, I've loved them all (Police Story 2013 gets a solid A for me; I expected it to be more fight heavy but found the fight scenes to be good; acknowledging that the film was not intended to be a fight extravaganza but a drama - which did have me on the edge of my seat with the twists in the plot (very well done; my own mother.. I had her watch due to the past 20 years starting when i was younger and home having her watch every and any Jackie Chan film or related material; I hold that tradition) The day after she watched it; she asked if I wanted to watch it again with her - boom thats a great sign in my opinion; she personally finds Jackie to be incredible but doesn't hold interest to the "endless fighting" of classics like Project A2 although enjoys the film and is heavily impressed what Jackie accomplishes in each film; and often she'll revisit them and watch them again - even if the longer fight sequences do not interest her as much as perhaps the coregraphy / stunts; or more recently story - I throw this all out there due to some fans being dissapointed in Police Story 2013; Nobody should have ever expected another Police Story 1, 2 or 3 for that matter - New Police Story molded a mixture of both dramatic sequences / plot (on a lesser impact/scale) with some balls to the walls fighting and stunts - It's not his age slowing him down; I believe these are wise decisions - Attract audiences that just see Jackie Chan as a "Hollywood Films Comedian who knows martial arts" (hate those perceptions) or that believe he should only be doing old-school films;

- with that said; Police Story 2013 did have 3-4 rather impressive stunts; (love the suicidal chef that jackie disarms, grabs and leaps off the side of the large building onto the police/fire department prepped suicide "Rescue Air Pillow Thing" -laughs- :D.

The reason I get into chan and the various film styles and movies; is that... Tony Jaa in The Protector 2; left me (not even dissapointed as I did not expect much at all) but beyond dissapointed; more of a "This is what people are going to pay to see? and I bet they'll enjoy seeing an obviously CG near death on top of a car followed by a rather cheesy CGI explosion right behind) --We didn't see any CGI explosions when Jackie lept in City hunter as actual C4 charges went off; or the fireworks factory in Police Story 2 / New Police Story's demolition charges; all 3 having him live running as they went off; New Police Story being the safest due to timed explosives via "Press now" at each distance; - but City hunter was pretty much "Run fast; and JUMP or you will be burned / uhh die" (I believe the quote in exchange with the director Jackie wanted it to be as dangerous as possible due to not enjoying the level of stunts the film had at that point) - or Police Story 2 with a one take explosion of a fireworks factory that had the best of hollywood ensure that the the explosion was HUGE and every camera / angle possible to show the explosion going off as Jackie is running "Feeling the heat; and the intensity singing the back of my hair, the third BOOM was so loud I had to turn to look at what the explosion looked like so I knew we had the shot; while I continued to run" -

That is exciting; not CGI and blatant / corny rope use; - While JC has used SOME wires in recent films; from what out-takes and interviews state about it is; "Its not rigging chan or controlling him, its a free fall still; and only used on the very dangerous stunts - with a crew standing by to give grip if he spirals out, or loses his landing area, or if anything happens with the stunt at the start we can avoid a tradgedy" - on film you can't tell and wire was used for these few stunts of recent films; and I admire that even some of the near equally dangerous he choose to not use the safety wire; He wants to please the fans while ensuring he knows that when he passes; these films will exist for everyone to see for hundreds of years and onward, and to give everything his absolute best"

The hollywood films that have blatant use of some CGI and wires (although he still fights with the hollywood big wigs about the safety precautions slowing down the pace; or not doing his stunt justice) - He pretty much finds Hollywood films of his to be even more income to go create the projects he wants to in China....
I have all the most respect for anyone putting their lives on the line for entertainement;
In the end there is only one Jackie Chan - and it will always be that way; If someone can jump further or higher for a stunt in the future thats wonderful; but... what matters is how it "Feels" - To this day only Tony Jaa had been a "Rival (initially)" to the Jackie Chan legacy with stunts; but as stated further above - he uses it as a gimmick to display his ability to do them rather than let the oppertunities in the story / fight scenes present themselves; which makes it... not spontaneous or exciting;

On an end note about Master Chan; - While as a director he created the "Double Take" for action films while filming Police Story; and made the "fast double cut" in police story 2 (used in nearly every hollywood film now) but... I believe in The Protector / Ong Bak - jaa was triple and Quad fast taking the same stunt; - leave it for out-takes; it slows down pacing and the impressiveness of seeing it once fast is far more than 4 times at different camera angles; for the near death stunts; / super stunts just use a fast double cut as JC as, I've never seen it used improperly with Chan; but... It made me shudder when Jaa over-used it for small stunts.... -sigh-

END RANT AND JACKIE PRAISE.

- Basically; We have great films being made or that have been released such as The Raid 2; which... I don't feel to be "The Action packed masterpiece with martial arts" - but I do find it as another entry of "Tastefully" presenting martial arts skills, swat / disarm skills, stunt skills, and a fight direction that uses brutality against others whom are already defeated (which; hell I think its great on film and gives those "SICKKK" outloud moments the first time; but when you realize someones head would not still be round after brutally being smasshed into a tile cement or tile wall 6 times; it seems over-kill - The Raid is an A action film with B+ fighting and A- stunt work the action in general and how its filmed is A+; the sequel though... The Raid 2 is a step up for the talent; The stunts are A to A+; the fighting is a solid A, it's an A+ film. - It does leave some to be desired; and in the end seems more of a pop-corn romp of amazingness than a genuine work of art; but.... In its own right it really is a hard earned / hard worked example of new talent doing "Hong Kong style Action" right, with elements of Western Film and a de-emphasis on CGI. That's what ends up being the taker for me.


Jet Li's The One is an entertaining film just as Jackie Chan's Medallion is - but we don't want to see these people in CGI blockbusters with wires (The One was a bit.... over... done... as many of Li's films are... -cough BLACK MASK cough-; -

Tony Jaa is not going to be back to his roots anytime soon; if at all - with The fast and the furious 27 and a half we already know his casting was to add that Exciting Stunt / martial arts action to the franchise; but... With that budget the CGI and wire work will make this Cheese Fest of CGI and Wirework mixed with (guessing) 25% legitimacy; turn into less than 5% legitimacy; it will pay the bills and more - and if Tony is not embracing his original "Grew up watching Jackie Chan films and trained to be able to do these things for film; just as the hollywood films that had CGI etc he thought it was all legit, and tried to further his stunt ability to be on par with hollywood; - he admitted feeling foolish when he realized that the big budget films he had seen had been done with computers and wires; but stated he wanted to do his own stunts like Jackie Chan who he idolized as a film star; for a new generation.

Well Jaa, you started to do that and had everyone raving about you for two films; then ... here you are - Selling out on your own turf and then embracing even more CGI/Wire with the fast and the furious.....

PS: Keanu Reeves film Man of Tai-Chi I found to be a pretty solid film, Tiger Chen embaresses Jaa in terms of the fights (as it just shows skill and no "uhhh... yeah that is just ... stupidly hollywood summer popcorn scene and uhhh RZA? Really? in a sequel to THE PROTECTOR? uhhhh) Man of Tai-Chi may not be a classic; but it's a unique idea for sure; and I am glad Keanu's love of martial arts / work with Yuen-Woo Ping from the matrix (along with Brad Allen of the Jackie Chan stunt team back then who aided in his training) and with Tiger Chen being another awesome Martial Arts star on the rise; - I hope his career will blast off; and that Keanu will continue to direct / make Martial Arts films - He's learned a lot from his idols, and has plenty of room to grow as a director - but he can be the first "GREAT" American Director who makes films for China (It as not released in Theaters in the USA; it was intended for Asia theatrical ; I am sure it would have been screened in the USA... it's Keanu Reeves! - but... He knows what his goal was, and succeeded; he also can only grow from there -

Now let's see more people talking about Tiger Chen... He has great potential, and is already a fantastic martial artist with demanding screen presence. at times he reminded me of a mixture of Yuen Biao, Chan, Li and Lee.

and onto my Signature to summarize...

If its not Jackie Chan; Its most likely not interesting.