MovieChat Forums > La migliore offerta (2014) Discussion > How did Claire and the group get all tha...

How did Claire and the group get all that art in the house? spoilers


In order to be cataloged and command his attention and a sale, the art and collectables had to come from somewhere and be worth a fortune. Since the midget owned the house and rented it to movie people, was the midget the owner of all the art and furniture? if so, that was not made clear. In fact she said there was a lot of deliveries in and out and I took that to mean the house was staged with that art. If so, who had all that art and antiquity and lent it to the con?

Also, his lifetime art collection was purchased legally so it could have been insured. The little con he played at the auction was not how he got all that art. he paid for it legally, even though he got good prices, art increases in value and insurance companies will insure it for whatever you want to pay for. If you buy a painting for 250k and you're the world's foremost art dealer/art inspector, then you can tell your insurance company, "I paid 250k, but I want it insured for 1 million." They'll do it happily, especially for him. So i don't buy that it wasn't insured. If the film makers are saying he was destroyed by the fake love, and not the stolen art, then I get it.

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I wondered about that, too, and thought possibly Billy was an arts and antiquities dealer. That's why it didn't raise any suspicions that he bought so many paintings. If he were an individual buying them for his personal collection and only when Virgil was the auctioneer, I'm sure someone would've become suspicious. So, I'm assuming Billy had a legitimate business buying and selling art, and the scams he helped Virgil with were on the side. It's like any illegal business...you have to have a legitimate "front" to make it believable. So, long story short, if Billy did have a legitimate business he would have access to all kinds of furniture and art objects.

Remember, Virgil is a scammer, a thief himself. His MO was to evaluate a painting and pass it off as being by someone else or a fake. That's how Billy was able to purchase them at such a low price. For example, the painting he said was a Valiente forgery that wasn't worth much was actually the real Petrus Christus painting worth £8 million. That's why he was so upset that Billy lost the bid. In the beginning of the movie he describes the painting of the girl sitting at the table as
"Lot 232 - Disciple of Boris Grigoriev" but when Billy delivers it to his house he asks, "Who is it, really?" and Virgil says it's by a Russian painter, named Yanski. He was the expert so people believed him when he said who a painting was by, whether it was real or a forgery, and what it was worth. So, if Virgil would have tried to get the paintings insured, the insuring agency would've wanted to see the provenance and they would've discovered his scams.

That's why he kept them all tucked away in a vault, out of sight, where no one knew he had them. He was taking a huge risk in showing them to Claire, especially since he really didn't know her that well. But he was suckered in because she told him no matter what happened to them, she would always love him. To a man experienced in love, that statement would've been a big red flag, but Virgil was so inept in that area, it made him the perfect target.

Terriers always smell like warm, buttered toast.

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They presented Billy as a failed artist who relied on the scams with Virgil, there was no indication he had access to what was in the house. Since the midget/dwarf Claire was the real daughter, it was likely all hers, she just didn't care or know what she had. It also had the look of having been there a long time, Virgil would have known if it was staged.

I agree with you about the insurance, but still, i think he could have had some insurance just based on his word. It's unlikely the insurance companies would doubt his word, or have someone more knowledgable than he. He was fooling the entire art world, so he could fool the insurance companies too.

Then again, recent reports on forgeries in the art world claim 40% or more of all valuable art are forgeries.

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At the end the dwarf, Claire, tells Virgil, "In 18 months, three deliveries and three removals." meaning workmen had moved the furniture in and out three times. So it wasn't her furniture. Robert had been renting it for 2 years and Claire had been coming and going for 18 months.

Earlier in the movie Virgil visits for the second time and his assistants are taking inventory when he notices some things are not where they were the first time, the key was in the piano keyboard, and the glass in the bookcase had been broken. So someone had been moving things around. That's what prompts him to ask if someone is living there.

Terriers always smell like warm, buttered toast.

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why post a spoiler in your title only to warn us of spoilers?

also, the monetary worth of the paintings was clearly inconsequential - it was for personal pleasure/observation, as indicated by the lingering shots of him staring fondly while isolated in his secret room. it's obvious that his finances aren't an issue as evidenced by the fact he tips the barman $100 for every cup of tea he doesn't drink.

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Ooh, I didn't notice the big tips. One more reason to watch again! :-)

Terriers always smell like warm, buttered toast.

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True, the title of the question is in itself a spoiler.
Regarding the paintings: First, he is not supposed to own any of them, and so, how could he go to any insurance company and ask them to insure it? some of these paintings are well known pieces. It is believed they were sold to someone else. It would raise a lot of suspicion if he started insuring them, or showing a few of these to anyone.
As for the others selling them after they robbed him: aren't most of them probably purchased through Billy, and officially, he is the one who bought them at the auction? Then he could probably sell them again, and he maybe even has a certificate of authenticity for each one of these master pieces. Will be hard to sell the whole thing of course, but at least a few of them, and get 1000sss to split among the 3 of them. But it was probably not only about the money. I think Billy had several reasons to carry out this plot.

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...some of these paintings are well known pieces. It is believed they were sold to someone else. It would raise a lot of suspicion if he started insuring them, or showing a few of these to anyone.

What's to prevent that "someone else" from selling the paintings to Virgil privately? That's how Billy got the Valiante back from the old woman.

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As I said. It would raise suspicion, if it became known that he owned so many masterpieces that he was not supposed to have. Maybe one, or two pieces, but to enure all of them, or most of them, it would become obvious that he owned a fu[<!ng museum!! He is a well known figure.
Think a minister in some country, exposing some possessions he owned by twisted means. A great risk.

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The film is entertaining, but not plausible. Nobody seems to understand how auctions and painting authentification WORKS.

The auction house (let alone the OWNER) is not the sole individual who authentifies artwork. It would be a gross conflict of interest (as displayed in the film, where Virgil deliberately misidentifies paintings so they sell for less than true value). It would ALWAYS be an outside source -- most likely SEVERAL experts from well-known museums, as well as private art experts whose reputations would be at stake.

So right off, this was ridiculous. Art forgeries happen, but most get caught -- it is surprisingly hard to fool a real expert. They have stuff like carbon dating, spectral analysis, computer scans and the like. Maybe you could do this 100 years ago -- today, it would be nearly impossible

And forging an AUTOMATON? Forget it! The cost would be 100 times more than the original. If you could build something that fantastic, you could sell it for a million dollars to a collector even if it was new. (BTW: this is so much like the automaton in "Hugo" that it was disconcerting.It's not like these things are commonplace.)

Nobody else has mentioned that in the collection Virgil has in his secret room are some of the most famous paintings and artists in western history, including Rubens, Renoir, John Singer Sargeant, Bronzino, etc. I was trying to name a bunch (former art student, LOL). They are REALLY famous paintings, and if they went missing, the whole art community would notice. It would be like the stuff in "Monuments Men" -- seriously.

BTW: no auction house is run entirely by one person, let alone someone elderly. That's absurd. It is exhausting work. Different people appraise, different people catalog, different people auction -- you need dozens of people in each job description. Being a good auctioneer is quite different than being a good appraiser. It's well paying, but most auction house owners are not billionaires nor living like Warren Buffet or Bill Gates. Remember most of the profits go to the seller; the auction house traditionally gets TEN PERCENT, out of which they must pay for the space, the auctions, all the employees, taxes, benefits, insurance (HUGE insurance).

The cost of running this scam would have completely outweighed any profits that Billy (or the other two characters) could have made off of it -- since the paintings are so famous they would be hard to sell, and only black market to collectors who kept them secretly. (Yes that happens -- it happened to the missing Isabella Stewart Gardiner art, which has still never been found. But that was highly unusual.)

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Remember most of the profits go to the seller; the auction house traditionally gets TEN PERCENT, out of which they must pay for the space, the auctions, all the employees, taxes, benefits, insurance (HUGE insurance).

How does the auction house recoup expenses if the bidding doesn't reach the reserve price and the item goes unsold?

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I seen this on a Christie's 'behind the scenes' show which talked about how sellers would be asked to lower asking prices and reserves if item did not sell as that is only way the auction house makes money from the lot.

They also mentioned how auctuonnaires would make out there is more interest in a lot than there actually is, close to fake bidding. They (big two auction houses) were fined for this some years back but there is still some pretty shady activity by auctuonnaires, good if you are selling.

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Wasn't the art those that he had pilfered throughout his life, through his con routing with Billy? If so, he didn't legally own it, did he? That's why he couldn't go to the police (remember him standing outside the police building but not going in)?

Some of it would have been in Billy's name, since that was his part of the con. He may have purchased some separately. Some of the portraits had already been declared forgeries, even though they weren't, so I don't know what effect that has.

It was more than just the monetary value, though. He'd spent his life collecting those portraits, and he loved each and every one. He spent time in the room just looking at them. He's go over a painting repeatedly with his magnifying glass, admiring it.

To steal that collection was to steal his life. His heart was stolen at the same time.

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His lifetime art collection was illegally purchased, it's auctioned off at a lesser rate and sold for much more. That's why he couldn't go to the police knowing his dealings were ill-gotten.

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