MovieChat Forums > Steins;Gate (2011) Discussion > fun series, with some nasty plot holes

fun series, with some nasty plot holes


The characters were interesting. The plot wasn't that bad. They pulled off a decent telling of a time machine story line.

Spoilers ahead.

What really made me mad was towards the end of the show when Okabe was trying to prevent Mayuri's death. First off, why is he always trying to save her at night by keeping her out in the open. They could have run one plot line with him keeping her holed up at a hotel or a night club with lots of witnesses and still let her die and I would have been satisfied. Having a little kid bump her into a subway train (where's FB?? letting his daughter roam the subway at night?) or having her be run over by cars in dark alleys (common in Japan??) was just stupid.

The whole show started with Kurisu's death, which turns out to be a bit of a stinker. Her dad is nuts and loves to stab people including his own daughter? A little far fetched and I totally called Okabe stabbing her when he was waiting in the room. And why is that whole inside of the building darker than night? Yes, daddy please meet me in the dark room on a floor where nobody is...

I will say this is the first anime that made me angry enough to post a rant on IMDB. Maybe that counts for something.

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I agree about most of your points. But the one about her holed up somewhere didn't matter. As he said "no matter what, the world made sure she died". I kept thinking "why don't he put her in an iron box so she can't get shot" or something similar but it really wouldn't matter. And in a way, it would be a waste of time watching. But ya, the girl getting excited and accidentally pushing her made me scratch my head... They should've showed FB there.

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There are a few Twilight Zone episodes on time travel that OP clearly hasn't seen. So he/she doesn't understand the reference. Understanding the reference is enough to stop you from asking any questions or trying to think you're so smart that somehow you'd have done it better. It's just a show. It's great that you think you could have solved the problem better than the characters in the show did. Great. Good for you. Who gives a crap. That's not a "nasty plot hole." It's just you being a nit picky jackass. Or rather, being a d1ck just for the sake of being a d1ck.

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Kinda agree with your criticisms. The 'inevitable' thing that some time travel fictions do is always a bit shaky. It seems like there's always some obvious way of avoiding, and when there isn't it becomes a bit contrived and Final Destination-esq. It would make sense if fate had some kind of sentience or agency, but treated as a scientific law (like this show does) it seems a bit of a stretch that all these coincidences would occur, and the more you examine them the more implausible it becomes. I think they didn't focus on it for this reason, we just have to accept this (non-contradictory) principle of fate but not look at it too closely.

I also agree that her father's character was a very lame caricature. The show gives its other 'evil' characters some even-handed rationale (Shining Finger, FB) but for her father to be merely an evil psychopath, that is pretty lazy writing.

So I agree with your criticisms, although they stem from weak writing are aren't plot holes per se.

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I agree there were plot holes but not the ones that have been pointed out. Kurisu's Father wasn't lame at all. They explained that he had become jealous and resentful of his daughter because her work was superior to his own. As Kurisu pointed out, she inadvertantly emasculated him. What started out as friendly debate between father and daughter turned into a hate filled rivalry on his part. The rift in their relationship was something that was building up for awhile apperantly. On top of that the past version of Okabe had just humiliated Kurisu's father during his lecture by accusing him of plagerism. So for Kurisu, amoungst other things, it was really bad timing. Showing her father her superior work on time travel was the straw that broke the camels back. While she offered to share credit for the work, he didn't want pity from her. Unfortunatly his own vanity was stronger than his love for her. Also, he would have done anything to be resepcted by the scientific community again. So in that moment, when he killed Kurisu, all that hate filled ambition, that jealousy, and pride came out. Essentially it was a crime of passion. Its tragic but there is nothing abnormal about that. Crimes of passion happen all the time.

Either that or he saw just how valuable Kurisu's paper was in that short glimpse. It was the key to time travel. It would have made him the world's next Einstein. Technically it would have made him greater then Einstien. Conscidering it's value, it's not far fetched that someone would kill even their own daughter for it. Unfortunately, while people are " supposed" to love their children, not everyone does.

As for making fate a sentience, that wouldn't have fit with the theme of the show. Making it a scientific law was perfect. Technically though there was no fate. There were just strong quantum forces that made it hard to change time. It's like gravity. It's not impossible to fly to the moon in a rocket, but it's hard to do because you have to overcome the force of gravity. It makes sense. Essentially what seems like fate is really just strong forces that can be altered but it cant be done haphazardly. You have to know what your doing. As Okabe learned his ability to influence time grew.

For me the major plot hole was that they never show whether or not they saved Mayuri. Technically the theory wasnthat ifnthey got back to the original world line she would not die, but the problem was it was JUST a theory. They never actually confirmed the hypothesis by showing her living beyond D-day. We assume that it worked, but it would have been nice if they confirmed it. Also what happens to CERN? I assume that Kurisu is the mother of all time travel and SERN was created using her theories. So I assume that the destruction of the paper led to the destruction of SERN, but it would have been nice to get some confirmation.

And the idea that Okabe could live comfortably with Mr. Braun and Moeka working underneath them in the Steins Gate worldline is ridiculous. I mean Mr Braun made it clear that despite the civillized appearence that he projects, that he was a shady individual who had gotten his hands dirty on more then a few occassions. Even if SERN was destroyed in the new world line, I can't see how Okabe could turn a blind eye to the danger he poses. Even worse is that Mr. Braun aka FB and Moeka are together again. That's clearly a bad combo. Moeka's emotional vulnerability and FB's ruthlessness could put the members of the Future Gadget Labratory in danger again.

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Agreed.. However, the dialog bounded beyond the English sub-titles and made the series worth watch 2-10 times (give or take). That being the case, I couldn't help noticing the discontinuity of referring to Darru as Cervantes' "Lothario" given his penchant for references from Norse mythology.

IMO, the writing was ripe with whit (iow, brain candy). The 'weak writing' may just appear as such due to reckless/zealous editing of the scenes mentioned. The one thing that did seem inconsistent was the "Lothario" reference in lieu of, say, a reference to "Freyr" (Freyja's brother); both incestial offspring and given... well, maybe I'm over-thinking this.. I doubt there would be any intent by the writers to take that tangent.

It's still something to think about. The references are nearly equally obscure and Okebae is written 'true-to-form' if nothing else. Darru also has a line that implies Okebae is akin to Don Quixote.

All things considered, it was an enjoyable distance from the many literally translated anime series.

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Mayuri would die no matter what Okabe did. The unlikeliness of the Subway death you point out just reinforces that. There's plenty of room for theories on what he could/should have tried, but she'd die no matter what. Not a plot hole.

No idea what you mean by Okabe stabbing her, he tased her to knock her out. Them meeting in private, what a plot hole!

Unlikely situations =/= plot holes. Characters not doing what you'd do =/= plot holes. Really tired of reading false 'plot holes' on IMDB.

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I've never read the manga or played the game so my opinion is purely based on the anime here.

The first time Mayurii dies it's unexpected
The second time she dies Okabe panics and just tries to get her away from the lab but SERN still kills her. Yes, she's in the open at night but I think it shows Okabe is just scared and panicking rather than thinking things through. From watching the series at home it's easy to point out what a rational person would do but if that happened in real life you would panic. Also, people not doing the most logical thing is not a plot hole. Loads of characters in nearly every film or programme ever have flaws.
The third time she does is at the end of the episode. I think the fact that she is killed by being knocked into a train is to hint that date decided she should die, which is why it was fairly ridiculous. If they showed another scene where she was killed by SERN then people might just think he's not doing a good enough job of hiding from SERN.

On that topic, the reason I think Okabe tries to get on the train is that he assumes SERN are tracking him throughout the city so he has to leave. I'm assuming the easiest way is by train. We see him try later on by car but he's blocked by traffic (presumably due to the train stopping.)

The one thing that I could consider a plot hole but could also be a further character error is that Kurisu stated you could only go back 48 hours at a time get he kept going back by less than 24 as it was the same day. He would have been give much more time if he'd went back 48 hours, or until another time when Mayurii was in the lab so he didn't have to spend the day chasing her.

Also, potentially, could he have went back 48 hours, then went back 48 hours again from there? I thought of this whe watching it but I don't know if it would have been possible with the laws of time travel this show presents.

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Also, just thought I'd point out I know if he did go back 48 hours etc it wouldn't have made a difference but it would have been nice to see him try something like this. Not a plot hole at all but something that I feel would have been nice to see.

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Bit late, but I wanted to set some stuff right. I recently finished the game so I think I can clear up some stuff. Keep in mind this is all tainted by subjectivity.

1. Why doesn't Okabe try to keep Mayuri safe in some other way?

This one is hinted at in the anime but outright spelled out in the game: saving her in the Alpha-worldline is impossible. Regardless of the actions taken ( there are loops where nobody kills her and no accidents occur), Mayuri dies the day she is meant to die (heart attack, brain aneurysm etc.) This is explained as a result of convergence, basically fate. All possible actions converge on one result: Mayuri dies on a specific day. The date is pushed back every time a change is undone, but there is no reason given as to why her death is necessary in-universe.

2. What is up with Kurisu and her father? Why would she agree to meet him in a dark hallway? Why would he try to stab her?

Explained previously, their relationship is pretty screwed up: Kurisu loves her father and therefore is trying desperately to have him accept her; he, on the other hand, has become so jealous of her genius that his envy devolved into hatred. She agreed to meet him in that hallway because he simply didn't want to be seen with her. The man was going under a false name to avoid being associated with "Makise Kurisu". As to why he would go so far as to try and kill his own daughter... it's convergence again. Kurisu had to die that day be it at the hands of her father, Okabe or just an accident of fate.

3. Why didn't Okabe go back more than a few hours into the past?

He was trying to avoid any potential paradoxes. He was returning to the day the time leap machine was completed, a few minutes after it was finished. Had he gone back even further and done something to stop the machine from being finished he could have either created a paradox (unlikely; as Kurisu said, all he received from the future were memories), or it could have eliminated the one chance he had of going back again if something went wrong. Once they finally managed to put a plan in motion, he started leaping to 2 days before the machine was completed (he could only use the machine if it existed so he could only jump to two days before its time of completion every time even with consecutive jumps - in other words: with the machine completed on 13th, from the 15th he could jump once to the 13th and once more to the 11th; on the 11th there was no machine so he had to wait until the 13th to jump again for a maximum of 48 hours). There's one more point to be considered: at this point in time, Okabe had already seen just how much of an impact changes in the past had on the present and the future. I believe he would have been unwilling to risk more drastic changes to the timeline, though this is mostly my personal opinion.

4. Why would he agree to live around both Moeka and FB?

He had no reason to be in conflict nor did they. The only reason the Rounders attacked the lab members was because they were put under observation as potential candidates to build a time machine. Once the Alpha worldline was undone, SERN never has any reason to seek them out. In Moeka's chapter, Okabe comes to the conclusion that he can't blame her for doing things that never really happened as all of her misdeeds were erased. You should also keep in mind that neither FB nor Moeka were all that bad to begin with. They got involved in things that went beyond their heads and were stuck in their stuations just as much as our heroes. Your assessment of FB as "devious" or "shady" doesn't really hold either. When faced by Okabe and Moeka, rather than keep to his mission and eliminate all those involved, FB chose to turn the gun on himself and save both her and Okabe rather than take their lives. If he hadn't, then he risked losing Nae. Ultimately, even Okabe says that he chooses to think that what he did was an act of kindness in the end.

The series actually keeps a very consistent internal logic and most plot holes are explained within the reason of the time travel method itself. Although I still have a few unanswered questions myself, none are sufficient to bend my opinion of the story.

It's a really great series and I recommend you play the VN if you have the chance as it presents more details and explains its story better. That said, the anime is very faithful and you won't miss anything of importance if you choose to give the game a miss.

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I agree, I also hated the way the prodigal scholar Kurisu had yet to master the art of wearing jacket properly. Equally farfetched was Mayushii's over-the-top cuteness, the only 16 year olds I know who act like that have a medical condition.

I also wished they ended the series at episode 22, would've been perfect.

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Those complaints of yours don't qualify as plot holes.

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*MAJOR SPOILER ALERT*

...why is he always trying to save her at night by keeping her out in the open.


At first he was just trying to get her away from Moeka and her gun-toting cohorts; he wasn't trying to save her by keeping her in the open. This is little more than an unfair accusation which ignores context.

where's FB?? letting his daughter roam the subway at night?


I had assumed he was with her in the station. In any case, it is neither directly, nor indirectly stated whether he was there, and therefore cannot be counted against the series as being "stupid."

...having her be run over by cars in dark alleys (common in Japan??) was just stupid.


I thought it was made perfectly clear that this incident was an intentional attempt on her life made by Moeka... At this point I'm beginning to question OP's credibility as a critic and whether he was even paying attention to the series.

Kurisu's death, which turns out to be a bit of a stinker. Her dad is nuts and loves to stab people including his own daughter? A little far fetched...


Never is it implied that her dad "loves to stab people." Moreover, it is no new thing to hear of someone being murdered by a family member for financial gain. And as I see it, the only other option that could make any real sense would be the overly predictable instance where she is murdered by SERN or FB. And I think we can all agree that that would have been a bit disappointing. Props to the writers for constructing a believable alternative.

...and I totally called Okabe stabbing her when he was waiting in the room.


I think most of us did. A bit disappointing, sure, but it's not as thought the entire series was as predictable. And if I'm honest, I think this was intentionally alluded to when you see the screwdriver fall on the ground in front of Okabe, giving the viewer that terrible feeling of knowing what is about to happen, but having no way to stop it; the same way Okabe felt the very moment he lunged at her, delivering the killing blow. Plus, this outcome was NOT predictable before the episode in which it is revealed, so saying that you called an event 30 seconds before it occured is a pretty meager accomplishment/criticism.

And why is that whole inside of the building darker than night? Yes, daddy please meet me in the dark room on a floor where nobody is...


Because the enire series is contrived, just like every other form of entertainment you've ever experienced in your entire life. If the building were light, it would have been just as fabricated. Know you nothing of mood, setting, and the tools used by filmmakers and artists alike to achieve such qualities!? Bah!

This series was excellent. Even the ending (which tragically cannot be said for many of the great animes in existence). For a series which deals so intimately in the mind-bending elements which are associated with time travel, it does a fantastic job. 12/10 stars.

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We don't get to see each attempt made my Okabe to save Mayuri. It is implied that he tries a lot and lo of times more than what is shown. And I assume he's smarter than an average human being. So he must have tried that.

Kurisu wanted to meet her dad alone, hence she called him at a floor where nobody was. The building had a dark paint. Lights of that store room (kinda) were switched off. "Nasty" plot hole? I think not.

I think you're just angry because people in general like it more than your favorite anime/TV Series.

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