MovieChat Forums > Catching Hell (2011) Discussion > The Cubs DESERVED to lose that game.

The Cubs DESERVED to lose that game.

posted 13 years ago by quietman77-1
5 replies | jump to latest

I don't want to make this post about me, but, for the record, I am a former Cubs fan, who lost my love for the team, largely because of their reaction to the so-called "Bartman Incident." Take what I write next as you will.

The Cubs absolutely deserved to lose that game. Of all the negative things that could have happened in that game, the Bartman play was one of the least potentially damaging:

* It was a foul ball, so no Marlin reached base, advanced, or scored. For all intents and purposes, the entire play resulted in a "do over."
* In fact, the play would have been counted as a strike, thus slightly damaging the Marlins' chances had there not already been two strikes.
* Even in Alou makes "...a spectacular catch..." it would only have been the second out of the inning. The Cubs don't automatically go to the World Series; they still have an entire 1 1/3 inning to play, with the heart of the Marlins' order batting.
* All that Mark Prior really has to do, to render the "Bartman ball" meaningless, is to make one more good pitch, or even a decent pitch that makes it into the field-of-play, to give his fielders a chance to get the out.

So what happens? Prior throws a wild pitch, making any sort of defense impossible. This from the supposed "Cubs ace"? Can anyone honestly imagine a truly great playoff pitcher (Curt Schilling, Bob Gibson, or any one of a hundred playoff-tested pitchers) utterly losing his composure, the way Prior did?

Doesn't the title of Ace Pitcher carry with it the responsibility of manning-up when faced with a challenge (and a fairly simple challenge, at that)?

Alex Gonzales's error has been oft-mentioned, so there's no use elaborating here.

Manager Dusty Baker, however, usually gets away without criticism, and that astonishes me. Prior was already well over 100 pitches (in only the eighth inning, with only one out, remember) and yet there was no relief pitcher warming up. Isn't that the manager's job?

Also, isn't it the managers job to, occasionally, tell his team, "Get your heads out of your a$$es and focus!" when they begin to lose their composure?

And when the relief pitchers finally got into the game, they were nearly helpless. Uh, excuse me, wasn't somebody going to have to get the next four Marlin batters out. What reason is their to believe that the Marlins wouldn't simply bat around during the ninth inning, instead of the eighth?

The sad truth is that the Cubs team was tested, and found wanting.

[–] senorjuez 12 years ago

I watched the game and after Gonzalez made the error is when I thought things were going to go south for the Cubs. It was the moment when I thought the "curse" had officially taken hold.

[–] dkgambler 12 years ago

You're absolutely right, the Cubs lost that game because of their lack of performance and accountability, period. If Alou casually trots back to his position in left field after it all goes down no one knows the name Steve Bartman, just another foul ball that just makes it to the seats. Or if a kid makes the move, or a woman, we don't know their names. Professionals are paid to perform, in that game the Cubs professionals failed to perform and the Marlins professionals did perform. That's what happened.

[–] RoundTheTwist 11 years ago

I'm surprised the officials didn't draw more heat over it all.

I'm no big baseball fan but the documentary gripped me and I don't really understand why a foul ball wasn't called.

[–] doggie_rodriguez 9 years ago

and I don't really understand why a foul ball wasn't called.

A foul ball was called.

Out of curiosity, what did you think was called?

[–] doggie_rodriguez 9 years ago

I am a former Cubs fan, who lost my love for the team, largely because of their reaction to the so-called "Bartman Incident."

I bet you like them now 

* It was a foul ball, so no Marlin reached base, advanced, or scored. For all intents and purposes, the entire play resulted in a "do over."

Yeah, but 2 outs and 1 runner on is a lot better than 1 out and the guy still batting. Especially when it's the 8th inning and outs are at a premium.

* In fact, the play would have been counted as a strike, thus slightly damaging the Marlins' chances had there not already been two strikes.

But there was 2 strikes so this is moot, so I'm not sure why you said it. So it didn't damage the Marlins at all. If anything it damaged the Cubs b/c it added another pitch to Prior's pitch total. (which isn't a big deal, but the point is the play did not in any way hurt the Marlins as you were trying to suggest).

* Even in Alou makes "...a spectacular catch..." it would only have been the second out of the inning. The Cubs don't automatically go to the World Series; they still have an entire 1 1/3 inning to play, with the heart of the Marlins' order batting.

I said this above, it's a lot harder to score 8 runs when there are 2 outs and one runner on as opposed to 1 out 1 on. Plus one of the runs scored on a sac fly, which would have been the 3rd out. And also Castillo score, who would have been out if Alou catches the Bartman ball. So at most they would have scored maybe 1 to 3 runs. But certainly not 8. But probably 0 or 1 since it's difficult to score runs when you have 2 outs and are down 3-0 in the 8th inning and have no confidence.

* All that Mark Prior really has to do, to render the "Bartman ball" meaningless, is to make one more good pitch, or even a decent pitch that makes it into the field-of-play, to give his fielders a chance to get the out.

He did and Alex Gonzalez dropped it.

Manager Dusty Baker, however, usually gets away without criticism, and that astonishes me. Prior was already well over 100 pitches (in only the eighth inning, with only one out, remember) and yet there was no relief pitcher warming up. Isn't that the manager's job?

Prior was cruising. You saw how helpless the Cubs bullpen was, why would making the switch sooner have changed that? He obviously didn't have faith in them (even you yourself said they were "helpless", lol) so he went with the hot hand and it backfired.

Bottom line, the Cubs lost to a better team (with a better record). But to say that play didn't effect the outcome is ridiculously inaccurate.