Is Deckard a Replicant?


It, after all, is the ONLY possible way that he and Rachael could've had a child.

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How so? Replicants are biologically human beings, only with certain genetic enhancements. They are not a different species, so there is no reason why a male human shouldn't be able to impregnate a female replicant if she has a functional reproductive system.

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Maybe I'm getting my sci-fi franchises mixed up, but I always figured Replicants were highly-advanced androids, something like Bishop in Alien, but as I said, I've probably gotten mixed up. I haven't seen the original BR in a few years now.

Come to think of it, they ARE androids. In the original BR, there were those weird Replicants that the robotics engineer designed, like dwarfs or something out of a circus. You can't tell me those are genetically-engineered.

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They were genetically engineered. Perhaps not those toys you refer to (who knows really about them), but surely the Replicants. The whole setup is that it is very hard to determine the difference which is why Deckard did that eye-question thing and that the new models in this movie need their right eye to be imprinted with a seriel number for the same reason. Biologically they are near human. And the movies then questions, if this makes them human?

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Answer me one question: If Daryl Hannah's character in the original BR is a genetically engineered human being, then why does she thrash around like a malfunctioning android when she is shot? At least that's how I remember it, I haven't seen BR in many years.

EDIT: Edited to correct the actress' name.

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Great point. But before I will attempt to rationalize it I will remind you that the beginning text/narration of BR (1982) directly states them as genetically engineered, and Sebastian says to Roy that he does not know much about bio-mechanics and so cannot help him. Plus the short films made in connection with "BR 2049" shows how the Replicants orchestrated an EMP attack on human society (mainly our backup centers), which would end the Replicants too had they been machinetic and not biological.

Back to your ponder: Daryl Hannah's Pris acts oddly when she is shot indeed. And even though the Replicants are biologically very similar to humans, they too are superior in strengths and durability and it seems even in drive for these specimen in particular. So when she is mortally gunned down she explodes in anger and disappointment. This is how I see it. She does not act human in her death, because she in not human. She act like a strong being being turned off, and who is pissed about her predicament. Imo, nothing in the story support her or them to be robotic, and so the more likely explanation is simply that she is a BMF. And those do not go down lightly. Anyway, Elle Driver dies in the same way in "Kill Bill II" - as a cute homage for sure, but I doubt she was robot here too. A BMF though she was :)

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The same reason that when a cat got caught in the fan belt of my car years ago and its neck or back broken that it flopped around much like Pris did until I finished it off with a shovel. Death isn't always simply falling over or quietly shutting down like you see in movies, it can include lots of spasms as the creature dies.

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the replicants made by tyrell in the original Blade Runner are biological, not mechanical... the ones you mention were made by some other guy

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Replicants are similar to humans in all ways with the exception of the incept date and the short lifespan. They are comprised of organic matter. Bishop and Ash are more "grown" insides and if you noticed they have a milky substance for blood. Replicants bleed red blood. Completely different.

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As others have pointed out, the Replicants in Blade Runner are constructed out of human biological DNA but are artificially orchestrated by a human hand UNLIKE natural human beings who all derive from the incidental match up of male sperm and female egg.

What is interesting to me though is the fact that we are already marching towards the Tyrell Corporation's goal of more human than human, starting off with artificial insemination where collected and preserved sperm are matched with collected and preserved eggs. This in essence is an act of human intervention and control of a natural occurrence of conception where sexual activity between male and female is eliminated.

The Nazis also tried to reach this goal of "racial purity" by selectively taking blonde, blue eyed women and forcing them to have sex with blonde, blue eyed men with the sole purpose of expanding a population that reflected that look.

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The problem with your theory is that uneducated low IQ people tend to reproduce more than educated smart people. The people with a lower level of intelligence tend to concentrate on the lower level brain functions (eat, drink, sleep, breed...etc). However that is a biological trait which ensures the survival of our species, and many people with extreme intelligence also have more mental issues (since they think at a higher level). It's just life...

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what a moronic statement.

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What specifically did you disagree with? I'm willing to have a civil discussion.

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[deleted]

Some of confusion is that in the Philip Dick source material, they are called "androids." In the movies they are explicitly flesh and blood, but genetically engineered and "grown" in a lab.

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Deckard is human. I have no doubt.

There are several strong and less strong indicators in this new film especially. And I will try and list them here.

In the original movie from 1982 it is ambiguous on some level perhaps, but truly becomes more of a debate in the later cuts and versions of it. The one scene that sort of makes the decision for me that he is a human is the incredible beautiful end-scene with Roy Batty. This is beautiful because a human and a replicant at this moment become equals. If this scene is simply between two replicants, much is lost. So, for the sake of art, imo, he has to be human in this first one.

Plus his ponder is not tied to the fact he may not be, but to the fact that there may be no essential difference. Humanity is defined by consciousness and not intentions of a supposed creator. This, I think, is the essence of the story and so therefore he has to be a human just as much as Roy needs to be a replicant.

In the original book by Philip K Dick; “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? (1968)”, Deckard is human for sure and it is not an issue in that story – but he becomes progressively dehumanized in his work as a Blade Runner. At the same time, the replicants are being perceived as becoming more human to him as the story unfolds. The book is essentially questioning if there is any real difference? The issue is not whether or not he is human, but what it means to be human, and so Deckard being a human is essential for the story to work.

Now in “Blade Runner 2049 (1917)” there are a few factors that weighs in as well:

The rebels want Deckard killed because he may lead Wallace to them. If he was as important as Rachel was, surely, they would not want him killed? If he was a Replicant, then a more logical move would be to get him back in the rebels. He is after all a great soldier. They don’t even consider this. He is now in the attention of Wallace and so he must be killed. They say. From this logic K should be killed too. He had same knowledge (in fact more) and he was hunted for this knowledge too. However, K they consider an ally. Why? Well, because he is a Replicant – why wouldn’t he be. Deckard on the other hand they consider expendable and a risk. Why? Because he is a human.

Wallace too wanted Deckard for what he knew and not for what he was. It seems to me that those characters in the know treated him strictly as human. And this, to me, is a big tell.

Regarding the point that Wallace plays with him as he is interrogating him: Wallace puts kindle on both sides of the argument, but if he was created for the purpose of procreating with Rachel, as he first plays with…. then lets us take the idea further; why make him a Blade Runner in such a case? Why not just create two replicants and keep them in the dark and see what happens on their downtime? Instead they trained him to sniff out replicants better than most and to even realize Rachel is one, and they give him a job that constantly risks his life. Not logical if he is so special and unique, I think. If he was designed for the higher purpose of breeding, he would have been an accountant. Wallace plays with his mind here because he aim to break him, not to enlighten him.

In the new one we also learn that all the Replicants do not age. Evident as we see pictures of them taken 30 years before, and they have not changed. Also evident in one of the three short films that was issued at the same time as this movie (on youtube). Deckard surely aged. Does this prove he is not a replicant? Well no, because one can argue he was special from the beginning ….but it surely does not support he could be a Replicant either.. All replcants we meet, do not age.

And again, for the sake of art and this magnificent story we are told: Two designed breeders are just not what this whole story is about.

The child between Deckard and Rachel represents the unity of man and machine – I am sure Philip K. Dick would agree.

So here we have it.

• The book says he is human.
• The first movie and its following cuts are ambiguous.
• In the last one, all signs I can see point to him simply being human – more or less in thread with how the book saw him.

Ergo sum, he is human.

Now the real question is; Does their daughter dream of electric sheep?

She has real dreams, we learn for sure as a pivotal part of the story. And she has "electric" fantasies, we see directly form before us when we are introduced to her. The answer: She dream of both. Man and machine is one.

Rachel is a replicant and Deckard is a human, and their daughter is alive.

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That was beautifully put. I agree with you. The fact that Deckard can feel pain in the original movie and all the replicants he is after are immune to pain really confirmed it to me.

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But Ridley says Dekard is a replicant... Here we go again!

;)

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Ridley has borderline lost the plot. It must be a requirement in the scifi movie business.

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I'm generally of the belief that the creator has the final word on something, or someone in a story they created. However, in this case, there is more evidence that points to Deckard being a human than a replicant. So I'm not sure how much of a bearing his "opinion" has here.

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I actually think the work should speak for itself and tend not to count too much on what the creator says...

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Well, obviously the special cuts of the original played on this fact. And so perhaps for a time this was the overall idea. Though I would still disagree. Anyway, since the story is now in the realms of another storyteller and that this new movie seem to cement the opposit, Scott can no longer claim ownership. And besides, perhaps he changed opinion. Not uncommon. God knows how many times Verhooven changed his opinion on his Total Racall. Bottomline, the piece of art always speak best for itself. Unlike its creator, it is pure and unchanging in its intentions.

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Ridley Scott is not the "creator." Even though directors have been insistent, they are given authorship of the film. Scott was enthralled with the idea when one of the screenwriters casually mentioned the possibility and then dismissed it. Phillip K. Dick said Deckard was not a replicant. Ford says Deckard was not a replicant. The story is evacuated of meaning if he's a replicant.

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Thank you for your post.

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Good reply, by the way...

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Does the movie show the replicants don't age? I don't remember that, but I do agree with you about the other stuff. Good job

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Just to clarify, I know you mentioned the pictures, but I don't remember them not showing that they age. I could have bet everything Freysa looked younger in her picture.

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I have to inspect the photo of Freysa again. Her present form though has been through quite a lot and so her physical difference could be due to battle and hard-times more so than age, For Sapper Morton it is clear that he piratically had not aged, and this is the biggest argument, imo. He may look a bit more weathered down, but surely not like 30 years of aging would normally impact. One of the short films is about him and here he looks the same as well. Of course it does not really prove much, as a counter argument can always be made that Deckard is of a different version, or was uniquely made... but when all things are considered, it matters to some extend.

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The short with Sapper is 2048,so he wouldn't have aged much between the short and the film.

This doesn't confirm that they don't age, it is still possible that they stay the same.

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yes you are right, the short film of Sapper is in 2049. To my recollection his picture though is still evidently unchanged and taken 30 years before... but I will have to watch the movie again to be absolutely sure of this.

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To me it's clear now that Deckard is human. Because his and Rachels daughter:
- has an illness, which points to her at least being partially human (as replicants are perfect)
- has real dreams (the one she implanted into K's memory), which replicants have not.

Of course one could argue that these things could be different for a child that was born from replicant parents.

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"In the original movie from 1982 it is ambiguous on some level perhaps, but truly becomes more of a debate in the later cuts and versions of it. The one scene that sort of makes the decision for me that he is a human is the incredible beautiful end-scene with Roy Batty. This is beautiful because a human and a replicant at this moment become equals. If this scene is simply between two replicants, much is lost. So, for the sake of art, imo, he has to be human in this first one."

For years, I took this same position. It's the one that Harrison Ford took too. To be invested in the story, we needed an avatar... a stand-in for us... and that person in the story is Deckard.

Now, I see it differently. On some forum somewhere, one author pointed me to the link on youtube that has the alternate ending for the original movie. If you watch it, you'll see that it strongly hints that Deckard is a replicant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8t9_081E9Y

Rachel: "Did you know your wife a long time?"
Deckard: Glances at her, laughs slightly. "I THOUGHT I did." (emphasis mine)

Rachel (final line of the movie): "You know what I think? I think we were made for each other." Is this meant literally within the movie, or is it a nod to the audience?

The movie sprinkles a few hints too. The one most people notice is that Deckard's eyes glow a couple of times in the same way that Rachel's do. (Yes, I know that this has been explained sometimes as a quirk of the lighting. I'm dubious that it would not have been caught and corrected during the dailies.) Also, Deckard comments how replicants have a fascination with photographs even as his own apartment is filled with them.

Another one is Gaff's apparent dislike of Deckard which is never explained. Gaff seems to be monitoring Deckard's movements throughout the movie with no explanation given.

My interpretation of the original changed over the years. I now think that -- in the movie version at least -- Deckard and Rachel -- were a new model of replicant designed to move undetected among the human population with a goal to eventually using them on earth.

Deckard and Rachel were being field tested. Deckard was unaware of his origins. In order to pass as human, Deckard was explicitly NOT given super-strength, although he did have an incredible ability to take abuse. Gaff's role was to monitor his progress.

(In the first movie, you'll remember that Replicants weren't even allowed on earth. In this movie, they live and work among humans which would be a natural evolution from the earlier successful testing of models such as Deckard and Rachel. I'd love to pick the brains of the screenwriter to see if this was what they were thinking when they set up the premise of 2049.)

The new movie plays up the Deckard-is-a-Replicant angle with Niander Wallace hinting that Deckard was programmed to fall in love with Rachel.

So, going back to the original movie, does that take away the power and impact of Batty's final speech, if it's just one replicant talking to another? At this point in the movie, we -- the audience -- still identify with Deckard as human and it packs a punch.

If the final reveal was that Deckard was a Replicant too, then the movie achieves a sort of meta-awareness involving the audience itself. Not just Deckard, but us, the viewers, were tricked into believing he was human. If we suddenly find out he's a 'machine', the very fact that we were emotionally invested in Deckard's adventure means that we participated in a parallel process of our own that mimics Deckard's.

This isn't meant to change your mind... the original is beautiful in the way that it can be interpreted to great effect both ways, whether Scott intended it that way or not.

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Yes indeed. The original cut is mostly leaning towards hm being Human - like in the novel. But then the different "directors" cuts all allude to him being perhaps a replikant too. So which is it? Well, it is ambiguous, although clearly stronger towards him being a replikant in the subsequent cuts as you mention. I got a feeling though that this is an idea he got later on and then also later cut this ambiguity into his film. Regardless of when he got this idea, the original film and in all its cuts (I have seen all of them) it is never above or below ambiguous.

I like your take and your view on how the story telling is giving us the twist in the end to make us the audience punder what and if there really is any difference. And so this distinction becomes rhetorical. One may leave it at that - but unfortunately my brain needs an answer ;) And so, my post as your read above :).

"(In the first movie, you'll remember that Replicants weren't even allowed on earth. In this movie, they live and work among humans which would be a natural evolution from the earlier successful testing of models such as Deckard and Rachel. I'd love to pick the brains of the screenwriter to see if this was what they were thinking when they set up the premise of 2049.) "
- to answer this we need to understand what happened between the first movie and this one. They released three short films on YT in connection with the release of this movie that builds on this: After Blade Runner (1982), Tyrell began to make Replicants with no expiry date, modeled in part after Rachel we must assume. This ultimately resulted in a revolt from humans (we do not like competition) and inhere Tyrell was destroyed (or decommissioned) and all Replicants became illegal... and those Replicants with no expiry date that Tyrell had already made, were hunted for retirement... however, those remaining then organized and executed a "terrorist attack" (later called; "The Black Out") on all the files kept on them and all other humans... by deleting these, we would become equal in a sense, as there would be no files to distinguish them from other humans. And so they would be much harder to find herafter the black out. This black out worked and sort of gave them a better chance to simply live peacefully, which was all they wanted... now in comes Wallace. He shows the humans in power that he can make Replikants that obey humans completely and flawlessly. Unlike those made by Tyrell. And so with this invention the band against making replicants were lifted, and Wallace is in business.... K is then made. He is one of those obedient replicants. And his job is to still hunt down and retire those Replikants that Tyrell made with no expiry date... and this is when the movie begins.

So the short answer is that Tyrell made them with no expiry date. And that it created instability and they were thus outlawed... the new versions (like K) are obedient to humans and so tolerated.

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[deleted]

Then how do you explain the Unicorn scene in the original?.

Just curious, was it in the book?

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Imo it is not in the book. I could be wrong.

The original has several cuts. And no doubt the director play more on the Unicorn in the subsequent cuts, which is why I say they are ambiguous. But in the original (first cut) it is less and actually not at all, imo. Google the original ending and listen to the narration. It seem to be not even a potentiel interpretation... and the Unicorn is in all the cuts.

Anyway, my view is like this: Galf makes Origami though out the movie, each time they are made to substantiate his point. When Deckard picks up the Origami Unicorn, he hears Galf's words saying; "Too bad she wont live, but who does anyway". A Unicorn is a fable creature, a beautiful idea that is ultimately not real.... like Rachel. So Galf made a Unicorn because it delivers his message: As beautiful as Rachel is, she gotta go. In the original cut, Deckard disagrees and runs.... in the subsequent cuts, he might kill her shortly after. It is unclear in those.

Now, why does Deckard dream of a Unicorn? This seem very coincidental? Well, yes. But perhaps he dreams about it for the same reason that Galf thought of it then and there.... they are in the same business after all, and so are inspired by similar things we must assume. Deckard does not dream about killing this fable creature, unlike what I think Galf does. Deckard dreams about it roaming in the free in all its glory... perhaps deep down it tells us that he actually long for beauty and freedom, more than the order and destruction a Blade Runner otherwise brings. Deep down he wishes fables like those about Unicorns could be true.... and so in the end, he chose to protects Rachel. This coincidence is actual the reason I think he does not end Rachel as a good Blade Runner should - even in the subsequent cuts... she is the Unicorn he has dreamed about his whole life... and this final Unicorn Origami is the straw that pushes him to follow his dream and not his command...

This is my way of looking at it. But I totally understand the other way of looking at it too... which is why I see it as an ambiguous ending.

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1st cut of BLADE RUNNER, he is human.
Other cuts, he's replicant.

"Schrodinger's Replicant": which ever one you are LOOKING AT, explains it at that moment.

(which is kinda dumb really)

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Despite Ridley's claims over the years, it's pretty clear in Blade Runner 2049 that Deckard is human. If he's a replicant, why is he so weak? Even Pris hands him his ass. Tyrell also told him Rachel was "special", so was the only one at the time like her, no four year life span and able to make babies.

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Based on the final cut he's a replicant, but this movie seemed to imply he is human. There's no reason he should be able to live beyond four years or age if he is and my interpretation was that only Rachael could have children due to her special creation and only a human man could have impregnated her. If all replicants could have children together one having one wouldn't have been such a huge deal.

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IF he is a replicant, the story is that Tyrell made him in a larger plan together with Rachel... and if so, he is speciel meaning no limited life spand etc. So to me, this is no argument. Problem is, we do not know what this hypothetical plan might have been. But logically it makes very little sense to create a speciel replicant meant for something higher and then put him in the line of fire, ready to be killed at every turn (as the job of a blade runner). The more I think about it, the more clear it becomes that Deckard is not speciel. Not to Tyrell and not to Wallace. And if he is not speciel he cannot be a replicant and ergo he must be a human.

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Yep, even before 2049 people speculated about Deckard being some kind special replicant like Rachael. But like you said, that doesn't really make any sense considering they had him doing menial/dangerous work. The choice has always been between normal four year replicant or human.

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No, clearly he's actually a unicorn.

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LOL, atd!


😎

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Who the hell cares anymore?
BR nerds have been discussing this for years with no answer , then we got different cuts , with conflicting answers - what does that tell you?
If it matters , then it makes you think of the differences , if any , twixt replicant and human , which is probably the point of PKD's story, so its probably a good thing there is no definitive answer

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thought he was human, but how does he live in what is left of Vegas for so long with decades of radiation exposure???

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