So they're trying to escape an apartment complex surrounded by gun toting gang members, they kill one and don't pick up his ak?! They have semi-auto pistols and they don't take the assault rifle? May have come in handy for the gun battle in the alley. Liked the movie a lot but this bothered me a little.
shareIt wouldn`t help to pick up an AK-47 if you don`t know how to use it. They are trained with police issued glocks and practice with those. If you don`t know how to handle and shoot an AK-47, leave it on the ground.
shareAgreed. This isn't a videogame. You don't just pick up a better weapon.
shareLMAO
shareYou don't know how many rounds remain in the magazine, might be unsure if there is a safety engaged, is the weapon clean and functioning properly?
I'm the guy who does his job, you must be the other guy.share
It's an AK. Those things are the best designed assault rifles out there who's main purpose was simplicity. Children can use them and often do in many places in the world.
"Mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling."
Also, Gyllenhaal's character was a former Marine. I'm pretty sure those guys know how to handle an AK....
shareNice Quote, did Gyllenhal's character "want to be a cop, or want to appear to be a cop" in End of Watch?
shareHahahah
sharehaha lulz Call Of Duty / Battlefield / Medal Of Honor.
share[deleted]
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Umm what?
Ak-47s are notorious for being easy to use best weapon for anyone of age, organization.
There are plenty of documentaries on this on youtube. Plus, they most likely have trained to use assult rifles, im sure ak would be no different other than the recoils.
I mean honestly, those thugs were using it, give it to a cop who understands not to hold down the trigger to spray and pray it would of been very very useful for the police.
AK-47's are notorious for their crap aiming. Sniper rifles these are not. The movie actually comments on this. During Big Evil's two relatively prolonged gun attacks in the movie, there is a low body count considering the amount of ammo used. As for the scene, I thought they should have exited where they entered so as to get to their squad car quicker. But being an armchair cop is easier than the real thing :)
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Yes, but there might not be mags, it might jam up... when you're on the run, you don't take chances like that.
shareFrom a post later in this thread that is a reply to a different post, but you will get the gist...
1) The AK is very simple to employ. If you are familiar with the AR series of rifles (as any former Marine would be), you could figure out an AK in five seconds, even if you had never held one before. It is likely that - as a "modern" Marine, the character would have had familiarization training with the AK. He may not be an "expert" with it, but he almost certainly could have put it into operation. Also, it can be operated with one hand, though certainly not as effectively.
2) So, it COULD have had two rounds in it. It COULD have had 30. The advantages of an AK over a pistol are so massive that it's worth the gamble. At worst, you get a few shots off with the much, much superior weapon, and then transition back to your sidearm.
3) This is incorrect. When the SWAT team shows up, what are they armed with? Rifles. Are they performing a different CQB than everyone else? No. The fact is that ALL units who do CQB for a living use rifles as their primary weapons, and pistols as SECONDARY weapons. Anyone who knows anything about this would always take a rifle over a pistol, period. As to the light: It would have been handy, sure. Fortunately, mounted lights can be DIS-mounted, and used as a normal flashlight. This is assuming that he didn't have a normal flashlight on hand, which is a BIG assumption, because a hand held light is standard gear for every patrol officer in the world.
4) Again, this is incorrect. A rifle carried in a good "high ready" is just as fast, if not faster, than a pistol. And the normal firing stance taught in all police academies uses two hands, so he's going to be out of his "comfort zone" in any case. Again, it simply boils down to the fact that the rifle is simply SO much better than the pistol, that any negatives are far outweighed by the positives...
So, we can see that - in a perfect world - picking up the AK is absolutely the "right" thing to do. Is it a "flaw" in the movie? No, not necessarily. People do the "wrong" thing all the time, every day, under all sorts of circumstances. Expecting this character to do the "right" thing while under incredible duress is what is truly unrealistic.
Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut.
Rodney is correct on all points. This movie was very realistic, but the most unrealistic parts where the gang-banger mass shooting scenes. When the black people were having a bar-b-q, they were being shot at within 20 yards. An AK, in full-auto, is very effective within 50 yards. Even the most inexperienced shooter will get many injuries and casualties within 20 yards. In semi-auto mode, you can hit a man-sized target at 300 yards. Those people should have all been dead.
The apartment scene was the same. You had 4 (?) gangsters with ak's shooting 10 yards in front of them on two cops that are fully exposed. It would have been impossible to miss.
Before they fell into the ambush, they should have been suspicious of the van with black tinting. Running the red light while a cop is behind you is a red flag. The guy running out into the complex. No way would the cops be that stupid. And why didn't they grab the shotgun?
On the plus side, they filmed the Glocks in first person view, and I was so impressed with how realistic it felt.
Still a good movie though.
Cleft mentioned:
"The apartment scene was the same. You had 4 (?) gangsters with ak's shooting 10 yards in front of them on two cops that are fully exposed. It would have been impossible to miss."
I know, right? Either the Curbside Gang was the Mexican version of the "Gang Who Couldn't Shoot Straight" or there was an invisible force field protecting Taylor and Zavala. How they didn't get "lit up" with bullets as they ran across the complex, in direct line of the bullets, is beyond me. And in the alley, how they hell did Taylor not get killed, while his partner was being lit up by the gang? The movie should've ended with BOTH cops dying, not just Zavala.
Oh well, Jake did help produce the movie, so he had to survive, LOL!!!
"Rodney is correct on all points. This movie was very realistic, but the most unrealistic parts where the gang-banger mass shooting scenes. When the black people were having a bar-b-q, they were being shot at within 20 yards. An AK, in full-auto, is very effective within 50 yards. Even the most inexperienced shooter will get many injuries and casualties within 20 yards. In semi-auto mode, you can hit a man-sized target at 300 yards. Those people should have all been dead." Best comment on this thread! The point here is that neither of the main players would have been able to pick up the AK or not because they would have been dead, period!
I don't care how many people on here talk about the inaccuracy of an AK. You can say it all day and it won't change the fact that neither cop would have made it out of the kill zone.
The only thing that surprises me about this place is that I continue to be surprised...
WOULD YOU PEOPLE JUST SHUT THE HELL UP AND STOP ANALYZING THE FILM!?
Here's the real reason why so you all would stop bickering like a typical Arm Chair General moron:
Jake was shot in the hand, Pena was in shock. Both of them are more worried about finding a way out of the building rather than concerning about an AK on the floor. They didn't care what type of weapon was on the floor, THEY JUST WANTED TO FIND A WAY OUT OF THERE BEFORE THE GANG MEMBERS GOT TO THEM!
It has nothing to do with whether or not they are trained with an AK. Whether if they were in the military. Whether the AK is accurate. Whether the firepower from a 7.62 would go through building or any of that bullsh!t. This isn't Call of Duty you assho!e, considering the fact that they're already armed, it wouldn't have been the first thing on their mind.
Those two Police Officers barely manage to escape from a room with the panicked woman after ducking for cover from the leads being sprayed by the gangs, they have other things on their mind rather than fancying themselves over the weapon on the floor from the guy they just shot.
Simple freaking plot, and you people are making a big deal out of it. Jesus.
Several points:
1) scene of the AK shootup at the black's BBQ. The drive-by shooters are on an unstable platform and are not braced or trained in how to properly shoot semi- or full-auto AK's and handguns. A common error with semi-auto weapons is to hold the gun loosely and loose off shots in a general direction. If the shooter misses with the first round-- highly likely-- they will miss with subsequent rounds because each recoil is pulling the muzzle (exit end of the gun barrel)upwards. This means that most semi-auto followup rounds will hit the ceiling or clouds, not the target that just dived onto the ground. This is why so many of the BBQ gang survived the fusilade of bullets from The Curbside driveby.
2) Impossible to miss at the apartment balcony ambush. You'd be amazed at how many rounds are expended in combat that go wild. See above comment about how the muzzle rises and forces shots from inexperienced shooters to go high and wide. Until you shoot an AK, you will not understand how hard to control they are. This is why the AR is considered a superior weapon: following rounds are much more controllable. If the cops moved fast and went low, which they did, they could very well have escaped most of the bullets. I wouldn't want to be in their situation, for sure, but certain death? No.
The unrealistic scene was the final alley shootout where the cops were firing in the direction of other cops. The alley was blocked and cops on both sides of the exposed gangbangers had their weapons drawn and aimed in their direction... and also in the direction of the cops opposite them. Both sets of cops were firing. I'm not sure what the tactical rulebook calls for in such a situation, but I'd be surprised if the ROE are, "if the annoying cholo girl says something saucy and provocative, everybody rapid-fire your weapons in the direction and plane of your fellow officers and just hope they're lucky fellows".
Well said. I was going to have to type that all out and you saved me! Haha. After you use a variety of rifles picking one up doesn't feel so awkward. Having used the only really AR-15's, Glocks and a 1911 here and their I can say I picked up an AkM and it felt awkward but at the same time very simple to use. Literally a caveman could use it! That said when SHTF sometimes you just do and sometimes its not always the perfect best choice and when bullets start flying sometimes you just want to make sure your getting rounds down range at the bad guys for sure and that might be with a handgun you've been on the range with for hours and hours and hours.
It would have been interesting to have Jake cover fire with the Ak to get across and sort of fire and maneuver and hopefully hit a few of those gang members then just drop the Ak when it runs out and switch to your side arm. Its not just something you learn from video games. Often times Military units will do cross training with allot of other weapons, I know the Army does this in a few units but I can't speak for the Marine Corp. My best bud is in the Marine Corp and we watched this together last night and overall we both thought this was an accurate portrayal, I mean we both have the background and have spent quite a few good times with officers and in between calls there is allot of "dark humor", if you don't have dark humor on a job like this you simply are not cut out for it.
I really implore people to look at cops as good people because they are! This movie reminded me of my local PD very much! Cops are sharp on the edges but once you show your not a threat and you start to become one of them they are just like any other human being, like Jake voiced in the opening they have a heart under that badge and they still bleed red.
you'd be surprised how easy it is to use firearms. They all pretty much use the same concept. If you know how to use one semiautomatic, chances are you can figure out any semiauto. The concepts for aiming and cocking rifles and pistols are virtually the same, the finer details like grip are kind of irrelevant.
shareJake's character was in the Marines right? I'm sure he had training with assault weapons, maybe not an AK but I'd much rather have that when it's obvious you're facing a gang that all has them
"Hell yea I punch my bitch, and beat my kids in public" "EMINEM
because cops don't use assault rifles?... yeah, ok. cops may train on the regular with their semi-auto pistols, but they are trained and handle/handled a variety of weapons. be it in training or on the job.
shareIt's called panic.
IMDB as of late, sold out and became like City Data and about.com, worthless bureaucrats.
It didn't bother me but here are some reasons that worked for me:
1. They didn't trust a gang weapon; in a life or death situation would you rather trust on your own familiar weapon or a strange one that might jam or whatever?
2. They didn't have any AK ammo, so assuming there's one mag in it, you would spray that thing empty in about 3 seconds
3. They didn't have the time/mind to consider the reasons above and just wanted to get the heck out of there
Jamasian_man is right on the money. you learn this in the military as well. leave weapons on the ground that you are not issued. unless ofcourse you are out of ammo and in dire need of firepower. The movie portrays it right.
shareI think I would consider being out numbered, out gunned, and on the low ground, a dire need of firepower.
shareHe was a former Marine, assuming he spent ANY time overseas, he would know how to use an AK.
shareIt was mentioned in the beginning of the movie that Brian Taylor (the character played by Jake Gyllenhaal) was a former Marine. This should probably mean that he has at least basic training on the AK
shareJakes character is ex soldier I doubt that he cant use it
shareBrian Taylor (Jakes character) was a former marine, I'm 100% certain he would have had training with many different AK style weapons.
sharejake gyllenhall's character was a marine...they can shoot any weapon.
shareDidn't know he was a marine. He sure as HELL didn't perform like one in the gun battle. I have bad vision, but I have shot a glock and it is very easy to aim. They should have hit at least ONBE gang member if they had aimed there weapons properly.
Cult Leader my minds frightening, I drink blood from a human skull like a Viking
the lead character was meant to be a marine. so pretty stupid move there by him.
Yeah I found a lot of this film to be stupid, frankly it seems like a feel good cop hero worshipping delusional propaganda.
Jake Gyllenhaal's character was ex-military--there is no way he wouldn't know how to use an AK.
sharean AK is not to be messed around with if you have no experience.
________
"Deadlands 2: Trapped" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1103262/
Did anyone tell you that Jake was ex-military? Oh yes, about 4 dozen half-wits here repeated it like they were breaking the news. So I guess we're clear on that lol.
...then whoa, differences...
Very good point.
Cult Leader my minds frightening, I drink blood from a human skull like a Viking
I agree with Jamasian. That, and they were probably so preoccupied with getting the heck out of there that they probably didn't even think about it.
shareYes you are right. I bothered me too. Remember Jake's character is a Marine too, so he knows how to use an assault rifle. It's not rocket science, the gang bangers were able to operate them. The magazine was already inserted, the charging handle was already was pulled, and the lever was set in full auto. Anyone could pick it up and just pull the trigger. I would say 99% of cops would know how to operate an ak. Insert magazine, pull charging handle, select fire type, line up iron sights, squeeze trigger.
What bother me was running into a building after a perp without proper back up, especially after being warned there was a hit placed on them. I would treat every traffic stop or call as a possible ambush.
What bothered me most was that Pena's character provided no security after seeing Jake shot. Pena became emotional and did not cover his partner and his ass. Pena should have pulled Jake to safety and engaged into a defensive position and wait for back up.
>>>What bothered me most was that Pena's character provided no security after seeing Jake shot. Pena became emotional and did not cover his partner and his ass. Pena should have pulled Jake to safety and engaged into a defensive position and wait for back up.<<<
If it's any consolation, that inattention to detail was seen in their first stop of the movie, the two-door Cutlass or Monte Carlo they pursued, then stopped in a PIT maneuver, after which the driver and passenger emerged firing.
Once the shooting was over, the cops never made any effort to 'clear' the back seat. There we a couple of cuts in the dash-cam video, but the time codes showed they were just fractions of a second, and neither officer approached the vehicle and made a close inspection of the back seat area where there could have been more passengers/shooters. Gyllenhaal appears to glance at the area through the front door from several feet away, but that's it.
At least they were consistent in failing to watch their sixes.
Let's not even get into an officer walking into a house, apparently with reason enough to draw his weapon, and yet giving one hand over to carrying the hand-held camera he later uses to take a peek in the bathroom.
Remember they were trying to escape and scaling walls and what not is not as easy with an assault rifle hanging around.
shareWhat really bothered me was the fact after Taylor got shot, why didn't Mike drag Taylor to the truck. If not that, then he could've dragged him somewhere else instead of being in the MIDDLE of the alley. My dad also said the Cartel in America wouldn't have the balls to take a hit on the police (he's ex. ICE) so that kind of bothered me after he said that.
"Calm down, Doctor! Now's not the time for fear. That comes later"
It is a movie so they obviously took some creative licenses with procedure and emotional reactions. Plus cops probably get threats all the time so they approach every situation with the same amount of caution. You see someone running after a car chase, their first instinct is to follow not to wait for backup. With my own gun in my hand and back up on the way, I wouldn't have even thought to grab their gun.
share[deleted]
"My dad also said the Cartel in America wouldn't have the balls to take a hit on the police (he's ex. ICE)"
Yet they have the balls in Mexico to go after federal police. I don't think it's an issue to be honest. Not only that but according to the movie they didn't do it - they paid local gangs to. You can get anybody to do anything if you throw enough money at it. ICE apparently intercepted the phone call but didn't feel like giving the two officers a proper warning which is /my/ biggest problem with the movie to the degree that I actually care.
If what's going in Mexico spilled over into the US proper the police nor the FBI wouldn't be able to muster any super-special powers to combat it.
Yeah, I could not figure out why they didn't take the car. That made no sense.
shareTaylor was a Marine, he knew how to use the AK. But you dont know if the gun is faulty. You know your glock works great and are expecting back up soon and have to be on the move quick so you dont have time to drop your gun and test out another that might only have a few rounds in it. I understand why he didn't grab it, especially when he probably had more ammo for his glock. Plus at the time they were in a hotel with narrow hallways, glock would be fine.
sharei agree with suddz you should always have confidence in your equipment
When you got to shoot,shoot. Don't talk.-Tuco
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I've seen a lot of movies over the years in which an out gunned individual fails to, elects not to, etc pick an obviously superior weapon. This fact has always bothered me however I freely admit that I am not a weapons intelligent individual. Having confessed this, why not pick up the obviously superior weapon if out gunned & out manned? After wall its not rocket science (just aim & shoot) or anything right? These "gang bangers" have no problem figuring out how to shoot these guns (AK's, UZI's, etc) so why can't a professionally trained police officer do the same? The only exception that i can think of for not picking up an automatic weapon and using it in self defense would be if the gun was completely empty. Please explain this to me if possible as I must be readily missing something here. Just curious that's all. Oh and inspite of all this I still enjoyed the movie!
shareAsche1959,
You never rely on a gun of a gangster.. You never know if it will fail in the middle of a gun fight.. You always rely on your own wapon because you know it won't fail you in 99% of the time.. Thats why you never pick up a weapon unless if you're out of bullets..
In a combat situation, a firearm is only as good as its accuracy in the hands of the shooter. The AK-47, for all its simplicity and reliability, is actually a rattle trap piece of junk that is about as accurate as a slingshot. Sure, they could have used it to lay down suppressing fire, but Mike didn't even bother to take up a defensive position after his partner was shot.
No.. I would much rather stick with the Glock, even at close range, because it is more likely to provide one shot, one kill reliability, which is the most important thing in that situation.
"No man is an island. Some men are peninsulas."share
Sounds like you've never shot a gun before...
It's extremely hard to shoot a pistol accurately. A rifle, any rifle, would be much easier to shoot accurately due to a longer barrel and sight radius. AK's have a reputation for being slightly less accurate (compared to, say, an AR platform) due to loose tolerances (reliability, simplicity, manufacturability) but that doesn't make it "as accurate as a slingshot", and at distances that they were engaging, it would have been negligible.
This part of the movie bothered me too, there's no good reason to not pick up the AK.
A few years ago in L.A. we had a situation in The Valley where some well-armed bank robbers with AKs and other assault rifles used all the cops as target practice. The cops couldn't make a dent with their pea shooters. After this episode, cops EVERYWHERE were using this episode as a reason cops need to be more well-armed,as there is nothing they could do against assault rifles.
Of course real cops would have picked up the AK. No brainer. Big goof in this movie, along with a few others that were really annoying. But if you notice, movies use this tactic all the time. Does anyone know why that is? Seems like there will be a choice of grabbing an AK, a Glock, a machete, a Swiss Army knife, and a banana, and they will grab the banana. Is it some Hickcokian device to engage the audience?
Another thing that really bothered me was the response time for backup. I don't care what the other cars were doing, once you get a call that your fellow officers are fired upon, you drop everything and get there. I guess every cop in L.A. was in all the way across town, and stuck on the 405. The anser to this question in the FAQ section makes no sense.
How in the world would you think a pistol's accuracy is better than a rifle? A pistol has a much shorter barrel and the bullet drops fast compare to a 7.62 mm round. AK might not as accurate as an AR rifle but it has far more accuracy and firepower than a standard pistol.
You mentioned one shot one kill, you can gun down a man with one shot from a rifle but hardly one shot from a glock......
They didnt touch the AK because its evidence.
What bothered me more was when they were being shot at in the apartment. Wouldn't it have been smarter for the two to return fire while the gangsters were reloading rather than lay down a supressive fire while being shot at? Seems like a waste of ammo to me
Agree there. Had that thought myself when i saw it drop. Taylor is an ex marine...and he knows the value of an assaultrifle over a pistol.
I wonder how the pros think about this? Is it realistic...or didnt they about picking it up...but was to focuesed on escaping.
Anyway heard bad things about the movie...but was pleasantly surprised by it.
Totally different vibe from colors with Sean Penn.
Wondering how realistic it is...and how it compares with colors with sean penn. Think colors tried to dramatised being a cop in the 80s, while this is for 21st centruy.
PS I like how they are protrayed...and i think quite realistic. To be a cop...you must be gung ho, but at the core still there to serve the community. Why else do something like that.
I live in LA and in most areas people will call the cops if they hear a gun shot the call will go out and then the helicopters will go to the area long before even the police.... they will light up the area.... but I LOVE THIS MOVIE!!!!
shareAks are not inaccurate and at the ranges of street gun fights, a rifle round is going to be much more accurate than a glock 19, which is a short barreled pistol.
Personally, an ak and a glock are my top choices for dependable weaponry for a rifle and pistol. They are from the same school of thought: dependability first and foremost.
An ak versus a glock is a no-brainer. An assault rifle is orders of magnitude more lethal than a short barreled pistol.