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The four judges/investors are wrong for this show

posted 13 years ago by fletcbk
22 replies | jump to latest

Part of the problem thus far for this show is the four judges/investors aren't really the target demographic to actually EAT at a Fast Casual Dining Restaurant. Sure, the show can remind us Steve Ells created Chipotle about a hundred times per episode, but the dude carries himself more like Niles Crane crossed with Tim Gunn than somebody that would actually be caught dead at a fast casual dining restaurant.

Then--and this has to be said even if it does sound a bit xenophobic--two of the judges aren't American (Nina and the Austrailian guy who I can't even remember his name) so how can they really tell us what the next great American chain would be? Do you think the blonde guy would like it if I were a judge on Austrailia's Next Top Restaurant? No. He'd tell me my head was up my ass and I'm ignorant. Nina looks like she's never set foot in the South so of course she doesn't really "get" a restaurant chain like Hicks.

The judges keep slamming contestants for "fatty" food or not being healthy enough...yet seem ignorant to the fact America is a hugely fat country that would be much more likely to actually eat at Hicks than The Tiffin Box (whatever the hell that is). The judges have picked restaurants like Wok, Completeat, The Tiffin Box, and several other "health" choices they will have to cut because people just aren't going to eat at these places...and yet they'll act shocked as to why. It's no surprise to somebody who's the actual target demo for these restaurants.

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] hartshck81 13 years ago

Well if you look at who's been eliminated so far and who's on the ropes (with the exception of Grill Billies), the healthier concepts are already starting to go by the wayside. The front runner seems to be Soul Daddy which is probably the least healthy. The only people they slammed for being unhealthy was Hick's/Grill Billies and that's because they basically served them cafeteria food at the Universal challenge.

[–] jasonstickets 13 years ago

Did the OP honestly not know Bobby Flays name?

[–] bing-57 13 years ago

Um, I think that the "Australian Guy" he mentioned is actually Curtis Stone.

Do you honestly not know the difference?

--
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] fletcbk 13 years ago

As Bing already pointed out, Bobby Flay--far as I know--isn't Australian and definitely isn't blonde. I knew who he was--although if you're not a fat ass sitting there watching cooking shows 2 hours a day it's forgivable you wouldn't know him, I tend to know more about politicians than celebrity chefs, which I consider more useful--but did not know who Curtis Stone was, again, a forgivable offense. But way to stay relevant to the original post and not side track it trying to appear smart (which of course back fired and made it look like you didn't know what you were talking about), IMDB users are always so good about that.

[–] jasonstickets 13 years ago

You honestly didn't know Bobby Flay and Curtis Stone? Wow bro, its time for you to go out and try to get yourself laid. They are the guys that ladies talk about, which shows us you haven't been around one in years.

[–] RomeClone 13 years ago

fletcbk, to your first point, Chipotle is a fast casual dining restaurant and as you said, the show has gone out of its way to tell us that Steve Ells created it. So whether you think Ells would "be caught dead at a fast casual dining restaurant" or not is irrelevant. And as you see throughout the episodes, the judges/investors have shaped these restaurants more to their liking by changing names/menus/concepts so by the end when they have to pony up cash, the restaurant will be something more "palatable" to them and the public at large.

As for two of the judges not being American and thus not able to decide what would make "America's" Next Great Restaurant, this point is so wrong (not morally, just logically) that I can't believe you go on to call other people ignorant and call them out on their intelligence. First off, Curtis Stone and Lorena Garcia aren't American by birth, but both have cooked all around the world (including in America) and own restaurants in America. I think they have a pretty good idea of what it takes. If you are actually suggesting that two people who live in America and operate restaurants in America aren't suited to be judges on this show because they weren't born in America, then it is you who is the ignorant and stupid IMDB commenter. Seriously consider this point and if you can't agree, then it is decided; you are a moron.

[–] fletcbk 13 years ago

"Seriously consider this point and if you can't agree, then it is decided; you are a moron."

That settles it, I am a moron because you have read one point I have made on an internet message board and don't like it. Wow, I can't believe I didn't see things as level headed and devoid of emotion as you did just now.

HOWEVER, there is something called reality to consider...

Do Curtis Stone and Lorena Garcia really understand what makes American food? It's very debatable. They keep pushing the idea that Americans should eat healthier, but seem ignorant to the fact that they don't. Curtis said Grill Billies pulled pork cherry sandwich a couple weeks back looked disgusting before he even put it in his mouth, when of course it was extremely popular and won their restaurant the most coins that day.

Generally, they just seem out of it when considering what Americans would truly eat, and offer advice that is less than helpful. Is it overly reductive to say NO ONE who is foreign would be a good judge of what makes an American restaurant chain? Absolutely. But these two individuals seem very disconnected from what would actually launch a national fast casual chain--they also have the least experience with it of the four judges. I don't feel like these two specifically are really connected to what would expand a restaurant out of L.A. and into Tulsa, because I just don't know that they've spent that much time in smaller cities. This is why the competition is almost over and just last night Bobby Flay FINALLY noticed that Spice Coast hasn't won many challenges and the food has limited national appeal. If there were four American judges instead of just one (I count Steve Ells more as a Martian than an American), I'm not sure they wouldn't have picked up on this earlier.

There is a cultural thing you can pick up by actually being American that might be lost on someone who's not. That's not me trying to be prejudiced, I would say the same thing if I were judging "Britain's Next Great Restaurant," actually I wouldn't have to because they would say it for me. Curtis would probably say "Hey mate, what the hell makes you think you know the first thing about what Australians would eat?" in the first episode. And Lorena Garcia...I mean come on...this lady hasn't offered one helpful piece of advice the entire competition, and naturally hasn't been big on restaurants like Grill Billies or really even Soul Daddy because I'm not sure she really gets food that is so fundamentally American. She's bigger on restaurants like Spice Coast or Harvest Sol that probably have more of an international appeal.

The larger point I was trying to make about the "investors" is that they are more four star food snobs than actual investors looking to launch a national franchise. Even Steve Ells seems pretty disconnected from what most fast casual restaurants are (and has wildly inaccurate opinions about how healthy Chipotle is).

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] RomeClone 13 years ago

fletcbk, go read your post again. You're the one jumping to too many conclusions and basing your entire opinion on people based on a very limited amount of information. You see a couple of non-Americans on a few episodes of a TV show and all of a sudden you know that they are ignorant about what would succeed in this country? Even though they both live in the US? Even though Lorena Owns a successful restaurant in this country? Even though Curtis is the head chef at a successful restaurant in this country? When do you suppose they cross the magic line that you need them to cross to "understand" what would succeed in America? A decade? More?

By the way, just because you wouldn't eat at a healthy casual dining restaurant doesn't mean one couldn't succeed. In fact we have one right down the street from where I live called the Conscious Blossom. It's been operating for years and has a very specific, health-conscious menu. And since it's the only game in town with that type of menu, it banks.

You're right that America has a serious problem with obesity and diabetes and the like, but isn't that all the more reason a TV show and a group of investors should be trying to change the way we look at casual dining?

The mistake you're making by comparing these non-American judges to you going over to Australia or The UK to judge a similar competition is that Lorena and Curtis live and work in this country. You're not born with the culture of the country where you're born already wired into your brain; you learn it. So why can't Curtis and Lorena have picked up on American culture in the years they've lived and worked here?

Also, I agree with you that the judges are what you might consider "food snobs" because of the level at which they operate (Michelin Star restaurants). But that doesn't mean they can't "slum it" by opening up a causal dining place. In my town there's a well know, super-rich, exotic car collector. He has a whole showroom for his acquisitions. He is absolutely what you would call a "car snob." But where he makes his money is his chain of car dealerships, including a used car dealership, that sell cars to "regular people" like you and me. Being a car snob hasn't precluded him from knowing what the average Joe wants to drive and can afford, so why can't the same be true for these judges? And by the way, you acknowledge that Ells is one of the four food snobs, yet we know that he owns and operates one of the more successful casual dining places in this country. Doesn't that disprove your point that these aren't the judges who should be deciding the competition?

[–] fletcbk 13 years ago

Why did you write me a five paragraph argument? Seriously...why don't you just tie me to a table and water board me because that would be more enjoyable.

I said my piece the first time. You showed up and called me a moron. Then I explained myself more in depth hoping that would at least illuminate my reasons for saying what I said to you. Again it is like talking to a brick wall, and you give me a lot of anecdotal evidence (mmm, the "Conscious Blossom" God**** that sounds delicious) that is supposed to...what...change my opinion that the four judges aren't extreme food snobs that don't actually know what flies in a fast casual restaurant? Well it didn't.

Every week they get more ridiculous. Last week, Stephanie who is all of 15 had to be the voice of reason against Curtis Stone--an irrational jerk most times and yes, ignorant of American food culture--who was just slamming her over and over again for using canned chick peas. She said "It's not realistic to use fresh ingredients all over the country when different things are in season at different locations" and then he hated that even worse, even though she was right. Then one judge asked her later on "Did you make this ketchup?" GIVE ME A BREAK, what national restaurant makes their own ketchup?

So far Bobby Flay is the least worst judge and sort of the voice of reason among the panel, and I don't think it's a coincidence that he's the only American on the panel (again, Steve Ells is more martian). Last week when Curtis Stone was just all over Soul Daddy for being unhealthy, Bobby was like "Honestly, he made a lot more effort than I would have in my own kitchen making stuff for my daughter." He GETS it in a way two exotic food snobs that might not even have children (Curtis, Lorena) don't. I'm not saying NO judge from overseas couldn't get middle America, but I am saying these two don't.

I've said this now for the third time. You get what I'm saying or you don't. There's no need to stretch this out into a twenty year relationship, because if you write me the same thing one more time, I'm going to insist you buy me some dinner and flowers first.

[–] RomeClone 13 years ago

The questions I posed in my 5 paragraph monologue were not rhetorical. You managed to not answer a single one. Congratulations. Also, count your paragraphs in you last post and the one that came before it. Your first response to me was 200 words longer than this one will be. 146 to be exact.

The example of the Conscious Blossom was to illustrate that a healthy casual dining restaurant can succeed. Anecdotal, yes. But at least it was an opinion (healthy dining can work) backed up by an example, as opposed to your main argument that "America is a hugely fat country" and "the judges have picked restaurants like Wok, Completeat, The Tiffin Box, and several other "health" choices they will have to cut because people just aren't going to eat at these places."

Linking America's collective weight problem with your opinion that a healthy dining place wouldn't succeed is just as much of a logical fallacy as you claim the Conscious Blossom example was, only even more so since at least I gave evidence to back up my opinion.

The title of this thread you created was that these four judges are wrong for this show and their opinions can't be trusted. Since then, you've backtracked on Bobby Flay, and you've realized your logical faceplant of saying Ells is too disconnected to judge what would work, since he owns and operates one of the most successful casual dining places in the country. But he looks like Niles Crane so what does he know, right? Sound logic there. So we've narrowed it down to "Nina" as you call her and "the Australian guy whose name I can't remember" as the two judges you don't like because, according to your expert analysis, they aren't familiar with middle America (even though you have no idea about their qualifications). For a guy who challenges others' intelligence and calls people brick walls, you sure do make a lot of baseless, moronic arguments.

This sentence is only here to make this post the length you like.

[–] fletcbk 13 years ago

Great, you actually counted the words in both posts...a wonderful use of your time. It's nice to have fans, but not stalkers.

You get what I'm saying or you don't. You don't get it, why isn't that good enough? Why does every joker on the internet have to talk in a circle about EVERYTHING? If this were a political board and I was trying to explain why Planned Parenthood shouldn't receive cuts and all, maybe then it would be a little more justified, but over this show? It's a one hit wonder unlikely to get a second season and almost certainly not going to actually launch a national chain. I watch it mindlessly, it's really not deep enough to debate for weeks, but the threads I've encountered here do speak to a very real problem...

That people are now willing to argue about anything and everything endlessly. This thread isn't even politics...it's a useless reality show no deeper than a sink and I can't even make a comment that these judges aren't fit to judge it without getting sucked into an endless debate...no wonder the world can't agree on substantial things.

In short: You don't get what I said. And that's okay, you should be okay with just saying your peace and letting that be it. You've been heard, I read it the first time, I re-read it a second time, but a third time is just too much. Any time after that and we're moving backwards.

[–] RomeClone 13 years ago

Flet, the only thing I repeated in my last response was the fact that Ells owns a successful casual dining place (oh my, I just said it again). I wouldn't have repeated it once if you had ever addressed it, but just like in political discourse it's always easier to skirt a point that challenges your whole argument, and to attack the straw man (i.e. Americans are fat, ergo healthy restaurants cannot possibly succeed!!!1!!eleven!!).

The rest was original material challenging your logic and your claim that my example was anecdotal evidence, while your point of "Ells looks like Niles Crane so he shouldn't be in a position to judge this show" was watertight, slam dunk logic.

And just to be clear, you came here and started this thread so let's not get too high on your horse about people on the internet wasting their time on a show no deeper than a sink. I mean, I hate to say "you started it" but come on now.

By the way, Planned Parenthood, the EPA, and the NEA are just buzzwords for the right whenever the left has the temerity to suggest cuts to Defense spending, Medicare/Medicaid, SS, or I don't know, the billions of dollars spent every year subsidizing oil companies, all of which comprise an exponentially higher portion of the budget.

Sometimes the "real world" blows and people want an outlet. One of mine is discussing stupid, shallow reality TV. But you're right. No need to get worked up over it. Happy Easter.

[–] Sharmster 13 years ago

I agree completely with you that having two foreigners as judges for America's Next anything is ridiculous - and that's simply logical, not xenophobic.

The American television industry has a fascination with foreigners; meanwhile, from what I've seen, foreign countries don't have the same taste for American new personalities, show hosts, or reality show judges.

[–] WSyd 13 years ago

"I agree completely with you that having two foreigners as judges for America's Next anything is ridiculous - and that's simply logical, not xenophobic."

So because they weren't born in the US, they're not eligible to be investors/judges in America's next great restaurant concept, despite the fact that they both live in the US and make their careers in the American restaurant business? Please. How about we just deny all "foreigners" the opportunity to become permanent residents/citizens while we're at it? It's "simply logical", after all.

As for the investors being food snobs - not seeing it. If they were, Brooklyn Meatball Co. and Soul Daddy (both concepts that feature decidedly non-elitist food) wouldn't still be there. And they wouldn't have kicked Eric for his high-brow artisanal "grown-up grilled cheese" panini shtick, they would have loved it. Instead they were trying to get him to go back to basics and make a regular old grilled cheese. Ells is constantly trying to get people to dumb down their concepts by putting everything in a sandwich. The only one of the group I'd consider a food snob is Curtis, and I think that's because he's just snobbish in general.

[–] fletcbk 13 years ago

I won't write twenty paragraphs detailing how the judges are food snobs...won't do it...you see the same show we're watching or you don't. They've been endlessly nitpicky about food while ignoring basic things like price points and customer satisfaction (we aren't told who gets the loosest number of coins...because it's irrelevant, the judges like Harvest Sol/Spice Coast so they stuck around past all logic). You get it or you don't. Again, not looking for an endless debate.

[–] WSyd 13 years ago

I'm wrong? Haha. Relax and stop being so defensive. Every post that disagrees with you isn't a personal attack against you. Who's trying to start a debate? I call it like I see it. I'd hardly call a group that put the meatball-selling buffoon into the final three and picked a soul food concept as the winner "food snobs." Though I don't like the fact that they (and by "they" I mean Curtis) forced him to make healthiness a centerpiece of his concept. Like I said, he's the one I would consider a snob.

[–] RomeClone 13 years ago

Yeah, and his whole point exploded when the "food snobs" picked the rib and fried chicken joint as the winner. They even all agreed with Bobby that he needed to bring back the fried chicken when he only offered baked. Cheese grits, cornbread, buttery biscuits, and pulled pork sandwiches. Yeah, those food snobs really shoved a healthy restaurant down our throats didn't they?

And for a guy who says he doesn't want to keep talking about the show, he sure does keep coming back for more. Oh and also Flet, you started at the very least, 8 different threads about this show. I only checked the first two pages of threads so I'm sure there are more. You make it a point to call out the food snobs when you yourself are a snob. You start 8 (probably more) threads about this show and then call people who respond to your posts idiots for engaging in discussion about such an insignificant show, and you call people out for post length when you average five paragraphs in all of yours.

You're either a hypocrite or a troll who knows he's baiting people into arguments. I hope your're just a hypocrite because trolls with that M.O. are so very strange. So I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you're a hypocrite. You know that girl you knew in high school who caused drama everywhere she went and always started arguments for attention? The one who was the common denominator in any drama going on but always complained that drama followed her. It's not supernatural Flet; it's you.

[–] fletcbk 13 years ago

You got those flowers for me dude? I'm telling you I ain't cheap...if you want to eat up endless amounts of my time, you got to pay for it.

And WSyd agreed with me that Curtis Stone is a food snob (although he's nowhere near as bad as Lorena and Steve), so it comes full circle back to the original point that maybe these aren't the right judges for this show, be they un-American, food snobs, generally unenjoyable people to watch on TV every week (the show was a ratings flop), whatever. But I'm on from that and ready to talk about anything else...like if you'll be treating me to a five star restaurant or not, none of this cheap stuff like Chipotle.

[–] RomeClone 13 years ago

You do of course realize that every time you try to make that point of "this show doesn't deserve so much discussion" (even though you created 8 different threads about it) or try to call me out for eating up so much of your time that you are both lengthening the discussion and spending your apparently precious time responding to me, right? You...you get that right?

You'd love people to think you don't care about me disagreeing with you but it's painfully obvious you do, if for no other reason than the time you've spent on this thread (which once again contradicts your attempted brush offs). Make jokes about me buying you flowers or taking you to dinner all you want, but you started the thread and keep coming back to it. So at the very least your logic works just as much against you as it does me. But you're really smart so I'm sure you didn't need that pointed out.

Also, the nature of the show is the thing that's flawed, not the judges. I think the producers of this show tell the judges to press the contestants in every way possible to increase the drama. They look like food snobs as a result. If you watch Top Chef Masters, Curtis Stone is the host and main judge. They just had a challenge where the contestants had to make dishes that cost no more than one dollar. Another challenge was manning a fast casual restaurant and serving that kind of food. Curtis wasn't a snob about anything, nor has he been in any of the other episodes.

And I know you hate to respond to the actual content of anyone's posts, but give this one a try. You know, just for the hell of it. Your whole point is that the judges are food snobs. But the winner of the show was Soul Daddy. Brooklyn Meatball Company was in the final three. Your whole point about them having an agenda to advance the healthy restaurants who you claim would not succeed was entirely disproved by both of those things. Any comment on that or would you like to dodge some more? I know it hurts to have your entire point that you've argued so adamantly for disproved, but if you man up and admit it, you'll have a lot more credibility.