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FINALLY somebody notices Spice Coast has limited appeal

posted 13 years ago by fletcbk
22 replies | jump to latest

So here it is more than halfway into the competition, the final five, and one of the judges FINALLY notices that Spice Coast hasn't won many competitions, the kids wouldn't touch his food with a ten foot pole, his food has limited appeal, and that Indian food--as I've been saying since week 1--has a hard time going into franchise mode.

Over and over I've heard I'm crazy. I've heard that Indian food is more popular than I think. That Indian food not already being done in a national franchise is WHY it should win, not a mark against it.

As an actual investor I can tell you that if a type of food has failed to launch a SINGLE national franchise (there is not one fast food, fast casual, or sit down chain of Indian food in America, no Indian Bell, no Indian Fried Chicken, no Indian Market, no P.F. Patel's, no Indian Garden, nothing) there is something about that food that is not able to franchised. Does it mean Indian food isn't popular in certain cities? Of course not. But if you have no nationwide chain for a type of food that has been around forever, clearly, something about this isn't able to be franchised.

It could be the relatively high cost of the food (maybe), the long hours of cook time to get it right (probably), or that Indian food in the United States just has limited appeal to a national audience (I still say almost certainly). Whatever it is, something about this business is too expensive, too long, too unpopular, whatever you want to call it, I'm calling it.

So naturally given that the judges pointed out how poorly Spice Coast did on the challenge and how the person behind it doesn't really seem to care if his food's not popular, they sent home Grill Billies. Just like last week we were told it would be all about the business, and they sent home Sinners and Saints over the two lowest grossing (Saucy Balls and Harvest Sol), they equally contradicted themselves this week. Once again choosing to be food snobs or push their pet causes more than actually act like they give a turd which business can make the most money.

[–] MES-one 13 years ago

I don't get why they had Sudhir on the chopping block based solely on this challenge when he's done well the whole competition. I don't know why there's no nationwide Indian chain but I'm not aware of any attempts to start one. You can't succeed if you don't try. As for Sudhir, his food has been well received in every challenge leading up to this one. The investors have loved his food since he took over as exec. chef. We don't know how everyone ranked in each individual challenge but they've shown him getting positive feedback from the tasters every week. He's won one challenge - same as everyone except Jamawn. And that challenge Sudhir won was based solely on the taste and appeal of the food, not on gimmicky nonsense like running a food truck or designing a kid's meal with a toy. The only people he's done badly the whole competition with were the kids and that's because he made a poor choice about what to serve. I actually don't blame him for not caring that much about this week's challenge because it was ridiculous. Kids do not drive the fast casual restaurant business (someone should have reminded Steve "I just now added a kid's menu to my extremely successful fast casual restaurant" Ells of this fact) and making them design a toy (I thought this was supposed to be fast casual, not Mickey D's) was just irrelevant and unnecessary. Joey and Harvest Sol chick shouldn't have been given a free pass just because they did well this week either, when there are still huge unresolved issues with their concepts. The grillbillies' chef managed to carry them through a couple challenges on his recipes (which they had nothing to do with) but they were still clueless. Sudhir deserved to stay over pretty much everyone because his food's been on the money with whom it matters the most.

[–] SBL84 13 years ago

Once again choosing to be food snobs or push their pet causes more than actually act like they give a turd which business can make the most money.

Because this competition isn't about who can sell their concept the best, or how well they develop their idea to pitch it to the investors.

It's about the concept itself. That's all the investors care about. They can change everything a contestant does in the actual challenges and just take their basic concept that they heard on day 1 and make a restaurant they want to make based on that concept. .

But they wouldn't be getting their paychecks from NBC if this show was 1 episode long where they just listen to concepts, and say "I like that concept, let's make a restaurant based on it."

Do you really think when "The Brooklyn Meatball Company" opens up in 3 cities, it's going to have its employees dressed like mobsters, Joey's grandma in the logo, and a 'meatball connect four' given away with the kids meals?

[–] pvd295 13 years ago

I'm betting that Spice Coast will be next to go.

"Thank You, St. Jude for prayers answered."

[–] SBL84 13 years ago

Well, it depends.

They probably already know who they want to invest in, so the other 3 can go in any order. If Sudhir does well on whatever arbitrary task they assign to the remaining contestants, especially if he does outstandingly well, far above the rest, it'd be difficult to send him home without being so obvious.

So they might have to cut one of the other 2 they don't want. In the final challenge, they can be more ambiguous as to who wins, because they can say they're basing it on the whole competition, and pick specific moments to justify their reasoning. So even if in the final challenge, someone who they don't plan on investing in blows them away, they could always say "Even though you did the best this week, we have to look at the whole competition since we are investing our money in the winner."

And even if the one they've already picked fails miserably they could say "You had a bad day today, but we know how well you can really do. Congratulations, you win."

[–] jurae 13 years ago

I agree witht the OP - Spice Coast has limited appeal. I really like Sudhir, but he's got an uphill climb marketing his food across the country.

In my neck the woods - the West Coast - his concept would probably do well because in my niche area, the cultures are predominantly Asian and Middle Eastern.

I could see Brooklyn Balls being more popular in the East than the West. We used to have and Italian chain and it bellied up as the cultural climate changed.

Grill Billies & Soul Daddy would be hit and miss. We have a lot of BBQ joints here, but they are predominantly Asian owned. (I hail from the South and I know my BBQ. What we have here is not Southern BBQ.)

It's not enough to know just the demographics, you have to know the cultural habits of those demographics. Italians will go out to eat at an Italian restaurant. Asian's will go out to eat at an Asian restaurant. Hispanics don't go out for Mexican food for dinner - lunch yes, dinner not so much. The Middle-Eastern folks I have known rarely go out to eat at all.

While I like the healthier concept of Harvest Sol, she brought up a good point about seasonality: It's different in different parts of the country at any given time. I also can't see a chain restaurant having a menu that fluctuates with the seasonality of things. Employee education would be exhaustive in a sector where turn-over is high.

And..... Steve Ells needs to get over himself. I would just like to watch one episode in which he doesn't reference something to his 'almighty' Chipotle. He keeps tomato-based salsa fresca on his menu year-round. Sorry, but it never tastes like fresh in-season tomatoes. Not sure how 'in-season' his corn salsa is either. He sold the American people a concept, but did he sell them an outstanding, healthy product? (A burrito is close to 1000 cal)

[–] sydari 13 years ago

^^also Qdoba & Baja Fresh taste better than Chipolte.

[–] defcon79 13 years ago

Like Sudhir said, Americans are not at all adventurous when it comes to eating out. That's whey theres no national Indian, Vietnamese, Thai and many other cuisines national chain. Serve up burgers, fries and pizza and you're golden.

Do you have something against the guy? He's consistently been in the top and seems genuinely nice along with Stephanie. And he's cooking his own food!

[–] Lightsaberboy 13 years ago

there's lee's sandwiches in the western coast, which is prolly the closest i can think of.

It's a what? It's a scootboard, that's what it is!

[–] defcon79 13 years ago

I would kill for a national Pho chain. One of the healthiest and most delicious things you could ever eat. Or even Marissa's Wok concept, or an Indian street food chain. The possibilities are endless, it hasn't happened because no one wants to back it.

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] BigRich 13 years ago

I would kill for a national Pho chain.

Well, you never know. Out here in Sacramento, CA we have a chain of Pho Bac Hoa Viet restaurants. http://hoavietonline.com/ http://www.facebook.com/PhoBacHoaViet

I'm not sure why they only advertise 2 of them (these are in Rancho Cordova and Folsom) and the others are in Sacramento and I think one in Davis, CA. If you look at their Facebook page, you'll see "likes" from Anthony Bourdain and Top Chef. Personally, I always order the same thing - charbroil pork and fried spring rolls.

_
Every person that served can be called a veteran, but not every veteran can be called a Marine.

[–] WSyd 13 years ago

OP- There's no national Indian chain because no one has tried it. Plain and simple. As an "actual investor" you should realize that there is a big opportunity here. A national "Indian" restaurant could easily be as successful as the existing national "Chinese" and "Mexican" restaurants. Why do I use quotes? You think Americans don't like Indian food? You're probably right, but we don't like it any less than we like Chinese or Mexican food (I'm talking authentic Chinese/Mexican.) Think Chipotle is serving real Mexican food? Taco bell? P.F. Chang's serving real Chinese food? Nuh-uh. Keep in mind that even these places are relatively recent. Americans have loved "Chinese" food for decades yet there are really only two national "Chinese" chains (P.F. Chang's/PeiWei and Panda Express.) The key point with a national chain is to Americanize the food to the point where it appeals to a wider audience and that's exactly what Sudhir is trying to do. And he's doing it well. Feel free to enlighten me if there have been previous attempts at dumbing down Indian food to appeal to Americans on a national level, but I'm positive there haven't been any. Sudhir's got a much better chance to succeed than the bickering couple + jerkoff chef trio with their Generic Grill Restaurant #1000 concept. You probably would have invested in that guy in the first episode who had the two wings restaurants already because "it's all about the business."

[–] fletcbk 13 years ago

I am hearing the same thing in this thread that I have heard the entire competition and of course it is coming from people that don't know **** about business. Just because YOU like to eat Indian food (I'm good for it about once a month myself) doesn't mean there is a business there. As an investor that's what you look for, not "MMmm, gee, I sure could go for some curry right about now."

One guy even said "Yeah, well it's all about the business for you isn't fletbck?" Well, no **** it is...why are you even making that sound like a negative talking about a show that's supposed to be about business but is actually about being a food snob fussing about in house ingredients and ketchup?

Indian food has been in America forever, and yet there has not been a single franchised restaurant of it. Why? Everyone is saying "Because no one has thought of it or tried it." Right, because East Indian people are just so stupid and lazy and totally don't believe in having their own business and everything, and it just hasn't worked because four white angels on a reality show haven't come down to make it work. Give me a break!

We're supposed to believe that a culture that values having its own business, and knows Indian food better than any of us ever will--including Sudhir--just has never thought "Hey, you know this Indian restaurant I own? Why don't we change the name and try to expand into multiple locations?" If it was extremely popular at the locations they already owned, they would have put a little money behind branding and built that brand already. It's basic business. As is, Sudhir is just asking Americans to "discover" a type of food they have already eaten before but haven't made popular enough to build a national franchise around.

Then people say "Well, they just haven't made Indian food accessible and that's what Sudhir is trying to do." Really? Because this last challenge was the most accessible he has ever done--most challenges he's just served traditional Indian food with no twist--and it was a major flop.

And I'd really, really like to address this recurring lie I've seen where people say "He's done really well the entire competition." WRONG. Sudhir has won ONE challenge (Soul Daddy has cleaned up), but the judges are in love with him so that's why he's stayed. They're also in love with Harvest Sol and that concept has one ZERO challenges. Clearly, the judges aren't interested in what can make them money or would actually be successful. They have their pets, and the very first challenge Soul Daddy could even be considered for elimination, they put him there because they don't like that type of food. He had better hope he wins all the remaining challenges because they will send him home if there's any opportunity for them to.

[–] pvd295 13 years ago

Like Sudhir said, Americans are not at all adventurous when it comes to eating out. That's whey theres no national Indian, Vietnamese, Thai and many other cuisines national chain. Serve up burgers, fries and pizza and you're golden.

Chicken as well - can't forget KFC, Popeyes, or Boston Market...

As for Asian food, there's the chain of PF Chang's which is opening all over (one is opening in RI later this summer). I believe they offer Chinese, Thai, Vietnamese and Japanese on their menu (but I may be wrong). I have also heard they are very expensive.

"Thank You, St. Jude for prayers answered."

[–] WSyd 13 years ago

"And I'd really, really like to address this recurring lie I've seen where people say "He's done really well the entire competition." WRONG. Sudhir has won ONE challenge (Soul Daddy has cleaned up), but the judges are in love with him so that's why he's stayed."

You might want to check your facts before you going around calling people liars, because it's you who's WRONG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America's_Next_Great_Restaurant (go to the chart in the middle of the page.)

He has the second best track record of all the contestants. No one has won more than one challenge except Soul Daddy, who has won 2. He and Soul Daddy were the only two who had yet to perform poorly in a challenge until this week. Grillbillies were in the bottom twice, Joey THREE times and Stephenie twice. The judges are only keeping Sudhir around because they're in love with him huh? Kinda hard to justify that when you have a guy who did poorly THREE weeks in a ROW yet keeps getting another chance. I'm waiting to hear you justify why the second-best performing contestant should have been booted by now. Were you there? Did you taste his food? I understand that you are strongly opposed to the idea of a national Indian restaurant but please do not let your biases cloud your ability to view this competition objectively. You need to re-watch the episodes because Sudhir has gotten good feedback from the tasters in every challenge leading up to this week. You claiming that he's getting rescued by the judges' favoritism week after week when you have other contestants screwing up catastrophically left and right just shows that you don't pay attention very well.

[–] fletcbk 13 years ago

I said he won one challenge...I didn't lie. I said that outright in my first post. It's amazing you say I'm not watching closely, but obviously you aren't reading closely. He has won one challenge and no others...we don't know how well he's doing in the overall competition because...

The judges just put the ones THEY think are doing poorly in the bottom three. You act like that process isn't subjective. THEY choose who goes into the bottom three and pay very little attention to what the tasters for these foods say. Sudhir could have received the lowest coins in a lot of challenges--they never tell who receives the lowest coins, only the highest--but we don't know it. The judges aren't really paying any attention to what people other than themselves like. That's why they haven't sent Harvest Sol home but she hasn't won a single challenge (MeltWorks had won more than that in the third week and they sent him home).

The judges--Steve Ells and until recently Lorena Garcia particular--clearly favor him, and that's why he's been so rarely in the bottom three. Not because he's cleaning up the competitions, but because the judges choose the bottom three based on their personal feelings every week.

[–] thebigmouth 13 years ago

The judges--Steve Ells and until recently Lorena Garcia particular--clearly favor him, and that's why he's been so rarely in the bottom three. Not because he's cleaning up the competitions, but because the judges choose the bottom three based on their personal feelings every week.

I love how you admit there's no evidence as to who does the worst every week, then assert with no evidence that the judges are clearly playing favorites in the case of Sudhir. The only thing that's obvious is that YOU are biased AGAINST Indian food. You have ZERO evidence that Sudhir has performed poorly according to objective measures. This is all your subjective conjecture.

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[–] WSyd 13 years ago

fletbck - You just said, by your own admission, that you have no idea how Sudhir is doing in the competition. Therefore you have zero basis for your claim that he is "only being kept around because the judges are in love with him." As viewers, the only things we have to go on are who won the challenge and who's in the bottom three. Using those performance measures, Sudhir has the second best track record of all the contestants, which is why people infer that he is doing well. If you want to dispute that claim (and call it a lie), you need to have evidence to back it up, of which you have none. End of story. You cannot argue that he has NOT done well because you have literally nothing to support that claim. It's all based on your "Americans don't like Indian food" idea - of which you are trying to use Sudhir's supposed poor performance on the show to back up. Your logic is circular. Also, how do you know what the judges' criteria are for who goes in the bottom three? They don't pay any attention to what the tasters liked? Really? You know this? You were there? Again, you are just running your mouth (so to speak) without any basis for what you're saying. You think Grillbillies deserved to stay over Sudhir? Sinner and Saints lady? Eric? The taco d-bag? Great. That's your subjective opinion (we all know by now how much you hate the idea of a national Indian restaurant.) It's not based on any performance measures because, by your own admission, you have none to go on (no one has won more than one challenge except Soul Daddy.) I'm sure the judges' selection process is also somewhat subjective (as in, they don't eliminate the person who received the absolute lowest number of coins every week.) But don't come on here complaining about how Sudhir doesn't deserve to stay as though your opinion is somehow objective and those that think otherwise are liars. If you can provide the performance measures on which you're basing your claims, I'd love to hear them. Otherwise, give it a rest. You have a whole case made against this guy and it's empty.

[–] fletcbk 13 years ago

I know Soul Daddy won four competitions and Sudhir won one (Curtis Stone and Lorena Garcia admitted his food's not popular) but people still say Spice Coast was robbed because Bobby favored Soul Daddy. Yes, Bobby did...as well as the vast majority of people that have eaten at both.

Spice Coast's accessibility has been a recurring problem, and THE main reason listed as to why Spice Coast shouldn't win (Soul Daddy's was being unhealthy, Saucy Balls's was because it was run by an idiot). IF the judges are saying his food not being popular enough is the reason he might not should win...then I think that's a pretty great basis for me saying he's doing poorly with the overall tasters. You don't because you like the guy, it's not because I hate him.

[–] WSyd 13 years ago

We have different conclusions based on extremely limited information. Aren't differing opinions wonderful! Only one of us is getting all defensive when someone disagrees with him, or calling people liars/wrong.

[–] thebigmouth 13 years ago

Sudhir is really frustrating. There are many ways he could present Indian in a way that would appeal more to fast-casual customers generally, and kids specifically -- and not too spicy. Indian street food like fried pakoras and kati rolls with chicken would have been a big hit with everyone involved. He's just clueless.

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[–] hitchhiker90 13 years ago

I agree that indian food has limited appeal, but I'd still like to see an indian fast food restaurant just to have it as a choice (and preferrably one without tacos). I like to eat indian food about once or twice a month but damn is it expensive. If someone can find a way to drop the price I would be there. Oh and no snobby type restaurants like these chuckle head judges wanted.