MovieChat Forums > Tomboy (2011) Discussion > The experience of being a tomboy

The experience of being a tomboy

posted 12 years ago by PoppyTransfusion
26 replies | jump to latest

It seems that many view Laure's predicament as representing a transgendered child. I can see why they would form this view. It's not the view I have because as a child I was a tomboy and the experience of being a tomboy had nothing to do with wishing in actuality to change my sex. I preferred the company of boys and found most girls of my age prissy. I found it difficult and painful when about 8 or 9 the boys no longer were interested in playing with me and bonded with other boys over games like football. Not being a girly girl meant I felt excluded from their company, which I preferred.

I think there's a reason the film is titled Tomboy and unlike others I didn't perceive Laure's desire to play at being a boy as her desire to become a boy. Even the penis shaping was so she could join them swimming from my POV. Her interests did not conform with being a girl and had they known she was a girl the boys would have excluded her from football as they did Lisa. They would not have scrapped and fought with her.

What the film achieves, intended or not, is to show how hard it is for some personalities to fit with the expectations of what it means to be a boy or girl and the painful division between the two, which is different from wanting to change one's body.

I'm a fountain of blood
In the shape of a girl

[–] mand-seven 12 years ago

I disagree. The movie shows Laure being kissed by Lisa, and then later on Laure kisses her too. A simple tomboy would not do it or let it happen. Laure feels and acts like a boy and certainly wants to be a boy, but her body betrays her. It is definitely an issue that happens to trans, not boys/girls who "look like". I'm surprised some people are even discussing this.

People on this board wrote "she wants to be able to play soccer". Jesus Christ. Way to miss the point entirely. This is a transgendered kid.

[–] PoppyTransfusion 12 years ago

You disagree away. There's no more evidence for transgender from my perspective than there seems to be room for any other view from your perspective.

I'm a fountain of blood
In the shape of a girl

[–] missmarch15 9 years ago

Yes, there is. He lied his girl name. By the moment he lied, introducing himself as Michael, it was clear to me that he's a transgender.

follow me on twitter: @JuliannaBastos

[–] JahWoo 8 years ago

Lying to fit in or not be discriminated against doesn't make a person trans.

Another reply suggested her kissing the other girl back means she's trans but couldn't that mean she is a gay female tomboy? Yes...yes it could. See also the whole gender fluidity thing at that age.

[–] 8 years ago

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[–] Stirchley 12 years ago

Laure would have been fine with the other kids if she hadn't pretended to be a boy. Nobody cared what she wore. Nobody cared if she wanted to roughhouse with the boys. It was Laure's deception that the kids found hard to accept.

[–] danketanke 12 years ago

I think there is no discussion about the fact that Laura wants to be a boy, and thath this desires extends to all the aspects of gender and sexual identity.

I think the title is provoking, rather than offering an explanation of the psychology of the main character.
Provoking in the sense that this is the only word that society (which, as I see it, I partly played by the character of the mother) disposes of to describe a girl who has clear desires of being a boy. Society doesn't dare to try find a word for this and covers the real thing up with an innocent and naive "tomboy".

I have read in other posts in some other discussione related to this movie that people shouldn't be forced to pick their gender identity before they're in their teens. Which is non-sense to me, because sexual instincts are there at a very early age. Of course I agree with the fact that adults should be tolerant, shouldn't force their and other people's kids into roles and behaviours they don't feel comfortable in. But.

But this movie in my opinion is more about the fact that the problem is not aknowledged alltogether, let alone dealt well with. The problem being the desire of being put in a gender and sexual category different from the biological one. Belonging to either category is for many people and many perceptions a yes/no, either/or question. Being a masculine girl does not make you less of a girl (even though the avarage girl/woman wants to stress the femenine characteristics of their behaviour -the same applies to boys/men). And that's what Laura knows very well.

Interesting the role of the father, I found, not sure how to interpret it though.

[–] Stirchley 12 years ago

^Interesting that the French have borrowed our English word, Tomboy.

[–] michelle-paris 12 years ago

Celine Sciamma didn't want the french word "garçon manqué" because of the meaning of "failed" that it implied

Tomboy is much more neutral than the french word

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Il y a pire que le bruit des bottes : le silence des pantoufles.

[–] PoppyTransfusion 12 years ago

I have read in other posts in some other discussione related to this movie that people shouldn't be forced to pick their gender identity before they're in their teens. Which is non-sense to me, because sexual instincts are there at a very early age.

I think gender is different from sexuality. Sexuality is conferred at an early age, as you write, and is not a choice as commonly meant. Gender is something else because it presupposes behaviours, attitudes and preferences determined by one's genitals and not one's sexuality. It is an applied category that shapes experience and can be a tyranny, as with any other categorising. Whether or not gender is something that humans could be free from I'm not sure. Categorising seems to be a universal part of human experience so perhaps it's essential.

Curiously the discussions on the board have been about Laura's gender rather than her sexuality.

Interesting the role of the father, I found, not sure how to interpret it though.

What do you mean?

I'm a fountain of blood
In the shape of a girl

[–] danketanke 12 years ago

I agree, sexuality and gender develop through different mechanisms. Sexuality is instinctual, unfiltered - at least at the beginning of one's life. Gender is much more complicated since, as you said, becomes a set of pre-assigned behaviours that only with some effort can be played around with.

I believe that if no such a set of behaviours was assigned to biological gender, then transgender people would be a rare exception (this idea is based on the assumption that, even though it is not rare that transgender people feel unease about their genitals, it is the attached set of sexual non sexual behaviours that they feel uneasy about).
But I completely agree about what you said on categorisation being essential to human behaviour, and I think the two-way categorisation of people into people with female genitals and people with male genitals will not die out easily.
And transgender people endorse this two-way distinction anyway. They just want to be and be perceived like the other category (admittedly in "simple" cases).

I don't see the day coming when a transgender person does not have to go through massive psychological distress in order to live how they feel best:
I think the best could happen to transgender people would be to live in a society which is open-minded and critical about the issue. But even then, I don't think a trans-gender identity can be shaped without some suffering.

But maybe the director does not agree with me: going back to the issue of the father character, I thought he may represent tolerance. And that the message he carries is that tolerance is the alternative and the solution to the painful confrontation with most people's prejudice and rejection of the issue. (Laura always feelds good in her father's company).

[–] PoppyTransfusion 12 years ago

When I first posted you I thought our views were divergent re-gender/sexuality, but it seems we agree.

But maybe the director does not agree with me: going back to the issue of the father character, I thought he may represent tolerance. And that the message he carries is that tolerance is the alternative and the solution to the painful confrontation with most people's prejudice and rejection of the issue. (Laura always feelds good in her father's company).

Laura seems to have an affectionate closeness with her father that she doesn't share with her mother, although it's obvious they are close. I think that if one wants to read the film as transgender then the father could be, as you seem to suggest, a symbol of a parental attitude that is tolerant and accepting. Equally in terms of the family dynamics he could be seen as providing Laura with some much needed attention that as the elder child she is missing because she has a younger, charmingly precocious, sister and her mother is heavily pregnant and preoccupied with the coming birth. In fact this could be a motivator in Laura pretending to be a boy to her new neighbours/play mates; the excitement of the pretense and the attention she gets as a new boy.

Whatever the father represents or was intended to mean, his scenes with Laura were lovely to watch, in particular the one where he holds her, swaying slightly, for a long time.

I'm a fountain of blood
In the shape of a girl

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] PoppyTransfusion 12 years ago

The film makes it plain, from what Lisa says, that Laura would have been excluded from certain activities because she was a girl. It is exclusion rather than the activities that is key.

The other kids might have been fine with Laura as a girl but Laura would not and that's the point.

I'm a fountain of blood
In the shape of a girl

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] chanterell 11 years ago

I don't think she was trans. She just got into these lies deeper and deeper, and didn't know how to get out of it. At first she thought that it would be kind of fun to pretend being a boy, but later on it became complicated for her, I bet she regretted, but she was afraid to lose friendship over her lies, and it would be simply humiliating to confess.

I went trough somewhat similar situation in my childhood. Tomboys can have gender noncomformity, but it doesn't mean they really want to transition, and they just grow out of this, and later are happy being female.

[–] PoppyTransfusion 11 years ago

Tomboys can have gender noncomformity, but it doesn't mean they really want to transition, and they just grow out of this, and later are happy being female.

Yes, this was my experience although it took me until my late 20's to be happy as a female!

Fatima had a fetish for a wiggle in her scoot

[–] Suskis 11 years ago

I agree with you. All those awards from LGBT festivals did harm this movie in making people think this is what the movie is about.
When you're 10, it's ridicolous to talk about sexuality or gender as you're an adult. The open ending is perfect to underline this openness in the story.
There is absolutely no clue in this movie about what this girl will be in the future. Being accepted was the only reason for the girl to act this way. Having a best friend (and "loving" her, for what this can mean when you're aged 10) is perfectly normal.
This is not a gay movie. This is a movie about growing kids.

'What has been affirmed without proof can also be denied without proof.' (Euclid)

[–] PoppyTransfusion 11 years ago

I didn't know the film had received awards from LBGT festivals and it wasn't how I watched the film. What I don't understand is why the insistence that the child is transgender and not, say, a lesbian.

I dislike the invective directed at the parents too by those who interpret the film in one way and one way only. There was more detail in the film suggesting love than oppression.

Away with the manners of withered virgins

[–] missmarch15 9 years ago

Because if she was ok being a masculine girl, she would've called herself Laure from the beginning. Michael is a transgender and even his little sister acknowledged it.

follow me on twitter: @JuliannaBastos

[–] saturnjwl 11 years ago

Your perception is valid. The character in the movie never really explains how he's feeling... And lots of girls like playing with boys, and might feel excluded as they grow older.

However, I would be pretty surprised, were Michael real, to find out that he wasn't transgender. And, were that the case, it would seem that she was some sort of sociopath, with all the lying she'd done...

[edit]: I'd like to add, though, that cisgender people seem overly inclined to refer to gender as a social construct, and to state a belief that children are without gender, only when the issue of trangender people comes up. If a child is born female and has a female gender identity, that's perfectly fine. But if that child is born female but has a male gender identity then suddenly they 'couldn't possibly know' and 'aren't old enough', etc. Obviously we all come from a culture of bigotry against people who are transgender, so I think it's important that we're not simply attempting to justify our bigoted upbringing. As for this movie, it's never spelled out clearly whether or not he's trans, so I wouldn't be inclined to have an argument about that particular topic. I'd find her deceptive behavior very disturbing and repugnant, however, if I was to find out that she was simply a lesbian who lied to everyone, including her girlfriend, in order to manipulate them into thinking she was someone else. For a cisgender girl to pretend to be a boy in order to get a straight girl to like her romantically is awful behavior which can be truly scarring to the victim party. I understand that this type of lying goes on all the time on the internet, but I don't think people really realize how terrible it is when it turns out that the person you were in love with was lying to you in order to make you love them. Doing something like that is wrong because you're making it very difficult for the victim to ever trust again. Completely reprehensible. According to the way I personally interpret the film, however, Michael was being his true self with Lisa. The lie was actually in pretending to be a girl with his family. Look at the way his sister was hurt when he excluded her from playing because he had to keep his identity secret. That's what bigotry against people who are transgender creates.

[–] missmarch15 9 years ago

Great words, I agree, he was a transgender! If he told he was called Laure, and corrected kids when they used boy to reefer to her, It would be clear that she was just a 'Tomboy'. But Michael is transgender.

follow me on twitter: @JuliannaBastos

[–] 9 years ago

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[–] PoppyTransfusion 8 years ago

So you say but it would seem that the majority on this board view Laure as transgender ... and it's not relevant to my position with regards Laure in the film.

I'm scared of the middle place between light and nowhere