Police Procedures in UK?


I'm watching this in the US on the Sundance channel and I'm completely blown away by the excellent acting! A few questions on the role of an "appropriate adult"- what are their legal obligations? How does a person in training who doesn't even have her social worker license (assuming there is a license procedure in the UK) even get volunteered for such a high profile case? When Janet took the clothing to Rose at the detention center and Rose verbally attacked her, the officers in the room would/should have put Rose in some restraint hold and removed Janet from the room- that scene was shocking, but didn't ring true because of that detail. Also, when a person doesn't have a previous diagnosis of mental retardation or some other cognitive disability, would they qualify to have an appropriate adult? Hopefully some of the books on this case mentioned in other posts are available in the US. No matter how well written or acted a dramatization is, there are always some details that are off.

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Saw it last night. Slow, but VERY gripping! And the two leads are unforgettable - especially Dominic West (I have yet to watch 'the wire').
And some things don't translate well. The different police and trial procedures. We've all learned so much from TV shows, we all feel like detectives and lawyers at times.

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Agreed, a very gripping film with excellent jobs all around. However, like you, I could not believe that a trainee social worker would be involved in such an important, high-profile, rather intense case. I also do not understand the role of "appropriate adult" in the UK. Where do these people come from? An agency outside the police department? Certainly, someone more qualified than a trainee social worker would need to make the determination if someone needed help because of cognitive difficulties, understanding the legal procedures and the questions being asked, etc. She was little more than a nonprofressional lay person. Unsure also of how much Fred West needed an appropriate adult, as he did not seem to have any cognitive difficulties, and why an appropriate adult would have continued to be needed once it was established that he was simply a lying, maniupulative psychopath. Never in a million years would someone not affilated with the police be going to crime scenes in the US, walking around with the suspect, etc. They also kept LEAVING HER ALONE with West, which wsa inconceivable to me.

Am I anywhere near the imaginary cliff?

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It was a remarkable drama.

It's not a well know aspect of the UK system, even here in Britain, but anyone can volunteer to be an Appropriate Adult. A lay person would be a good description, though it can depend on the region - some require an AA to be a social worker too.

I just had a look on their web site and there is training, but only 18 hours. If the child or adult had a parent or guardian available, they would sit in and fulfil that role, so seems more of an observation and support role for the vulnerable. I don't think anyone would have expected her to become so closely involved in the case.

Back in 1994, this was a new requirement, which I don't think was seen as that big of a deal by the police - sit in and make sure the accused understands. Due to West's lack of formal education, the police were covering themselves with the AA request, so the case couldn't be thrown out because the police took advantage of him. I think her eagerness to help and the police's view of the mere formality of her presence (initially at least) lead to the mistakes (her first case, leaving her alone with him, lack of support) which West took full advantage of and look so shocking.

A previous post asked about the red lapel flowers in the court scene. Rose's trial was in November, which is when we hold Rememberence Day. A poppy is worn to remember fallen service men and women. It's a well observed tradition, so people would have worn them at that time of year.

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From watching it, it appears that she was appointed before they knew this would be a high profile case. Its clear that she volunteered to be an "Appropriate Adult" because she was dealing with a person in her family who lacked the capacity to comprehend what would happen should he ever be arrested. I guess she wanted to look out for the well-being of others.



~my thumbs have gone weird~

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Great acting from the two leads, but I was rather perplexed that the police and UK justice system took so long to accuse, convict and jail the Wests. 1974-75 to mid 1990s, to accuse then convict these two for murder? Seems a bit ridiculous. Weren't the relatives of the missing young women reporting that they were missing?

I also found it odd that, with another house so close to the couple's home, not one person saw Fred digging holes and burying 'something'?! I think any neighbor would find all that digging odd unless Fred was constantly planting trees, flowers etc, something where you'd see the results of all that digging.

I remember the lead female detective being so frustrated because there didn't seem to be enough evidence to dig up the yard etc. I guess I'll have to read more about the case to find out why it took so long to convict them.

Yes, I'm another person shocked to notice that Jane was constantly left alone with an unrestrained suspected murderer!

The scene with the loony Rose trying to intimidate Janet would never happen in the US.

Not to mention, the manner in which Rose constantly screamed at the police and cursed at them, this would never be allowed by a suspect in the US. Rose would have been restrained with handcuffs during the time she was super aggressive with Janet and also when was screaming at the female police officers.

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I agree in the fact that this was in 1994 and there probably wasn't a lot of experience in dealing with high profile cases like this one. Also, being that this took place in another country makes a difference. Things are handled differently everywhere.

I had heard about this case through a song. This case is very intriguing and it amazes me how a couple could work together in such a grimm manner.

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As far as I can gather, Janet Leach was not just a trainee Appropriate Adult but, as she said on several occasions, had done the course. It was unfortunate that this was her first case. A more experienced AA would have found it easier to deal with the case, I am sure.

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Janet was studying to be a social worker. She was still taking classes. This is probably why she volunteered to be an AA; she had the training.









"And all the pieces matter"

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An AA is a very, very insignificant part of the process. They basically sit in the room as a legal requirement - apart from "the course", which is perfunctory, they need no qualifications or specialist knowledge.

Janet's role was spun into something bigger in this for dramatic purposes. There is no way a lay person would be allowed to stand staring at the display board in the detectives' office, nor to have the run of the police station and the hotline to all the officers as she seemed to have. In fact, from the moment she parked in the police station yard and then strolled in through the back door, this had the look of fiction about it.

Janet was the "in" to this story, so they had to make her role look more important than it was. It reminded me (for UK viewers) of those stories in Viz where a toilet attendant or park keeper will "lift the lid" on his brushes with the stars.





No Guru, No Method, No Teacher.

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Why do they need an AA? Isn't that the job of the suspects attorney?

Help stamp out and do away with superfluous redundancy

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"...I'm completely blown away by the excellent acting!"

Say what you want about the British but generally I'd say English actors seem to work harder and have a lot more talent than ours. If you watch The Patriot, the contrast is quite obvious. The English characters are much more interesting but the Americans are bland and seem to be phoning it in.

I don't know why this is, maybe it's simply a more demanding culture in English theater.

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This is an old post, but I'm only just watching this. I don't know if this is based on a true story yet, but it sounds very familiar. I am aware of a case where the husband/father (not sure about the mom) was killing women for years and years and burying them about the yard. The kids were fully aware of it and the wife. It was horrible.

An Appropriate Adult is probably the equivalent of a Court Advocate. These are trained volunteers who represent children in abuse cases in the court. I started to volunteer for such a program, but when they mentioned traveling (I can't drive myself all the time). I don't believe there are such a thing (for adults) in the USA.

The most striking difference to me is the difference in police procedures. Our cops would have had him up against the wall and beating the crap out of him (oops he must have fallen in custody), would have used whatever tactics they wanted to fool him to get a confess, and he would never have been able to get phyiscally close to her, touch her, or get left alone with her (or interfere in anyway with the investigation), or asked to take a break. Our cops tell you when you are going to have a break and they can keep you in for questioning for as long as they want (if you don't ask for a lawyer). I've seen other English crime dramas and they are all the same with the way the suspected are (by American standards) treated so delicately and lightly.

And, yes, I'm aware are police know to follow procedures in order to have confessions and evidence tossed out. I exaggerate a little, but anyone who watches American cop shows, knows that the scenes would have been played very differently.

http://www.auplod.com/u/dalpuo430da.png

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From what I know about the case, Fred West was pretty much illiterate, which may be why an Appropriate Adult was deemed neccessary.

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