Liked the movie, but left the theater thinking (or maybe it was just hoping) there was more to it. Certain scenes seemed to hint at buried stories and meanings.
1. Why did the doctor ignore the dirt?
2. Why did the brother shout that he killed him?
3. Was the wife involved in the murder?
4. What significance was the "angelic" girl in the village?
Anyway, here's a couple of the bigger questions for me for the movie. Thanks for your input.
1.Case was already closed and that was gonna make the case open again and with new evidences it might cause higher punishment for murderer who is father of kid.He basically wanted kid to be with his father.
2.He was so nervous and worrying about his brother and his kid.He also wanted him to be happy
3.I think so. The body was naked so he was at home with his wife and wife made first move.(you can see this at another topic)
4.Like characters told eachother in movie she was very beautiful unlike his father and his fathers self-seeking behaviors.She was like beautiful flower in anatolian steps.
Those are my thoughts.
Thanks for your thoughts. I have heard some of those opinions before, and they seem like good insights into the movie. But I think there are some holes in these conclusions.
First, the man had already confessed to murder. He was going to be put away in jail for a long time regardless of whether or not the man was buried alive. I don't think the doctor ignoring this evidence was going to have any real impact on whether or not the kid was going to have a father in his life because he wasn't.
The brother was worried about the kid and wanted him to be happy? That could be, but wasn't he supposed to be mentally challenged or something--I thought I read that somewhere. And if that's the case that seems too sophisticated of thinking for him.
As far as the wife being involved, I don't think his not having underwear seals the deal on that. Doesn't anybody roll "commando" anymore?
Lastly, I agree that the woman was beautiful and acted as a strong counterpoint to her father; however, surely there is more to it than that. I mean, everyone in the scene seems transfixed by her. I can't help thinking there is more symbolism there, or maybe even a hidden role in the storyline. It doesn't seem enough for this movie for her to just be a random beautiful woman that makes a meaningless appearance somewhere around the middle of the film.
She represents light. The only thing that's completely innocent in the film as well in life. She kind of does miracles, gave Kenan's brother a coke and Kenan then saw Yasar.
Remember that Stalker-reference in Distant? Well I see Anatolia more Tarkovskian than anything in the past 20 years. The Doctor, the whole Zone trip, the House, some wind/nature shots, police chief's ill but talented kid, and so on. Think about it.
You're so soft, you make me hard
I'll put you on a movie, don't you wanna?
1 - you are right
2 - Brother, being mentally ill may have had a hand in the murder . Important thing is that he could've let his mentally ill brother take the blame or pile it up to him with ease. but he didn't and he took the high road even though he is the one who is going to miss a lot by doing that.
3 - No way
4 - This is the point where people break down.(MEN)
She triggers the convict and by doing so effect everybody in there.
Even though Mr. Ceylan Don't give women a big role in his films He identifies them as very Effective and important.
Not only she triggers the characters in the film she has been able to trigger the audience as well. Like You ME and everyone!!
Perhaps I read too much into the photos the doctor looks at after returning from the all night trip into the countryside. There is a photo of a young woman. I presume his late wife. There is also a photo of child. A boy child. This photo has a crease on its corner, showing heavier use. A dead son. I thought the entire point of the whole film was how the doctor was grieving his lost relatives and how that makes him feel both about the beautiful daughter by candlelight, but most importantly about the mother and son who have lost their husband/father. Not to mention that he is also confronted with a situation in which the wife chooses to leave her husband by death.
Of course whether those relatives were dead or gone by choice, I chose to see it one way instead of the other.
Either way, he clearly blames himself. Immediately following the pictures we get the amazing shot where he struggles to look at himself in the mirror. (Before tracking down the son of the victim to ensure his well being)
shareI assumed, from the age of the photographs, that they were meant to represent the doctor in his youth, going back through his life - with his wife, as a student, and then as a child standing on the coast. He's reflecting on life and death in that scene, I thought - like at the end, when {SPOILERS} he stares at the victim's wife and son walking away, and we hear the sounds of the autopsy combined with the sounds of children playing in playground of the nearby school.
'What does it matter what you say about people?'
Touch of Evil (Orson Welles, 1958).
The true guilty person in the film is the prosecutor who although an educated man it's hard to believe that it never crossed his mind that his wife had committed suicide and he caused it.he did nothing to prevent her premeditated death,kept running after skirts(the man in the morgue says so) and felt no real remorse.He was deceiving himself unwanting to face reality.he is so insensitive that he feels like making a humorous comment over the dead body at everybody's astonishment.Apparently he had been abusing his wife probably accusing her of his inability which was due to his prostate problem and blaming it all on her.
The doctor sitting next to suspect Kenan all this time relised either that he was innocent or that deeply inside he was a good man with sensitivity and felt it would be unjust to worsen his situation when others committing similar crimes are around us.Looking at sexy legs under a strict religious cover up he suspects the woman is no innocent.
Finally Cemile I agree represents light in this gloomy atmosphere and the dull lives of men present in the story and a promise for justice equally delivered to all.
Or else you can say she symbolises the Love of God which is equally distributed to everybody guilty or innocent.The miraculous effect it has on humans,life after death and His presence in the remotest and humblest places.
1. The doctor ignored the dirt because he didn't want to create more suffering for the wife of the deceased. Recall his conversation with the prosecutor. He told the prosecutor that his wife had taken drugs which caused her to have a heart attack. She did this to punish him for his betrayal. When the prosecutor hears this, he is upset. Sometimes its better to hide the truth to avoid unnecessary pain to others.
2. Probably because he did. The brother was covering for him.
3. No. I don't think so.
4. Not sure.
4. Angelic girl was the symbolization of the women of anatolia. Women in anatolia generally not talk, doesn't involve in "serios" matters like building some morgues in villages or stuff like that, but actually they are the ones who keep the things going. In turkey most males are like clumsy adolescents. It's like they couldn't somehow develop, they couldn't get rid off those adolescent egotistical neurosis. (and actually that was the reason of the murder in the movie) Women are aware of this fact, they handle everything silently even look after their husbans like their little children. if you left an average tukish man alone without his wife he might even die of hunger. This angelic girl perfectly demonstrates that silence and dexterity of turkish women. She never says a word but able to make happy all males in the house.
share[deleted]
1. I agree with others that it was to mitigate the overall pain caused.
2. I assumed that he did kill him and Kenan was talking the blame because he knew Ramazan wouldn't fare well in prison.
3. It's not the impression I got.
4. Clearly open to interpretation. I don't have anything interesting to offer.
1. Why did the doctor ignore the dirt?
- to spare the wife and child more anguish
2. Why did the brother shout that he killed him?
- perhaps he did, he was present at the fight and involved in burying him at least. although he initially said that he was asleep, being at the burial site he was possibly overcome with guilt and emotion.
3. Was the wife involved in the murder?
- no, apart from being the cause of the fight.
4. What significance was the "angelic" girl in the village?
- the men have spent the night driving around the barren countryside looking for a dead body, they are tired, bored, frustrated, bickering.
in a dead end village where the mayor is nagging them about getting some money for a graveyard and the electricity fails ... out of the darkness a beautiful, silent angel appears bringing light and a welcoming gift of tea, they are shocked and humbled by her innocence and purity.
Cherchez la Femme.
Obsession with Turkey. Add prehistoric sculptures in situ and you have me, but
4. showing how obsessed men can get with women, and then
3. making it the wife's fault for manipulating men for her own self serving reasons...
After the show one woman in the theater said she saw it for the 2nd time and just can't figure it out.
1. Coroner ignoring dirt indicates that he understands the dynamics of why prisoner probably buried the dead man alive, how angry the prisoner was and that evil woman is going to get away with her part in it.
2. Mentally handicapped brother is trying to protect his brother. Brother won't let him. See Draco ts's explanation.
Prisoner crying over boy throwing a rock at him indicated that whether or not the boy is prisoner's son, prisoner thinks he is his son. Prisoner did what he did for his son, and Mom and son could care less.
the point is that in the end the murder remains unresolved because everyone who is supposed to be investigating it is so caught up in bureaucratic procedure and their own social conditioning. There are many clues throughout the film hinting at alternative explanations, but one cannot draw conclusive conclusions from any of them because none are investigated or pursued.
This film is literally a police procedural. At the expense of following procedures, both those expected by the authorities and those by society, the truth gets lost. at the heart of this film is a deep criticism of Turkish social structure (cf the thread regarding the depiction, or lack thereof, of women in the film).
This is my take on the story:
The 3 friends are drinking together one night (as shown in the first scene of the movie). In a drunk condition, Kenan(Accused#1) mentions that he has had an affair with Yasar's(Victim) wife and their son is his. A fight follows and Ramazan(Accused#2 and who is brother of Accused#1) hits Yasar on the head with a hard object. Kenan and Ramazan panic and assume he is dead. They try to fit him in the car boot and have to hog-tie him as they can't fit it in otherwise. They bury him without realising he is in fact alive. The dog shown in the first scene is the same as found near the corpse which confirms the above theory - They took the dog along but really forgot about it in the heat of the moment, which is why he is still around.
Now, let's try to answer your questions:
1. Why did the doctor ignore the dirt?
He didn't want to make it worse for Kenan, Yasar's wife and the Yasar's son as this revelation might mean their affair would come to light in court. The doctor was influenced by the prosecutor's story in making this decision.
2. Why did the brother shout that he killed him?
Because it was he who hit the victim in the head
3. Was the wife involved in the murder?
Not directly, no. But she had an affair with Kenan, and was indirectly responsible
4. What significance was the "angelic" girl in the village?
As explained above by many. She's a flower in the desert, a little respite in the tense and dull surroundings, making things happen in the background in the Turkish rural society while men go around bragging how the world revolves around them.
The 3 friends are drinking together one night (as shown in the first scene of the movie). In a drunk condition, Kenan(Accused#1) mentions that he has had an affair with Yasar's(Victim) wife and their son is his. A fight follows and Ramazan(Accused#2 and who is brother of Accused#1) hits Yasar on the head with a hard object. Kenan and Ramazan panic and assume he is dead. They try to fit him in the car boot and have to hog-tie him as they can't fit it in otherwise. They bury him without realising he is in fact alive. The dog shown in the first scene is the same as found near the corpse which confirms the above theory - They took the dog along but really forgot about it in the heat of the moment, which is why he is still around.I agree with this view of likely events. I don't think they buried alive on purpose.
Movement ends, intent continues;share
Intent ends, spirit continues
4. What significance was the "angelic" girl in the village?
As explained above by many. She's a flower in the desert, a little respite in the tense and dull surroundings, making things happen in the background in the Turkish rural society while men go around bragging how the world revolves around them.
1. I think the answer to this is more a philosophical one than one rooted in process and the mechanics of the case. The doctor is choosing good over evil at that moment: he is making a decision to think of Kenan as a fundamentally good man who committed a crime in the heat of the moment and accidentally buried someone still living rather than as a soulless man who deliberately did something evil and barbaric. You can see him consciously reject the hypothesis of the deliberate act. In a way, he's answering the question of man vs. beast. He's making a decision on the side of the character's fundamental humanity rather than on the side of men as vicious killers, even as he may not be entirely convinced of Kenan's innocence himself. This decision bears on the prosecutor's situation as well--it implies that he didn't deliberately kill his wife and is a message of absolution. The doctor is sick of badness and is bringing a little of the salvational light shed by Cemila into the proceeding. Did Kenan bury his friend alive on purpose? No one knows, but the doctor is stating, or pretending to state, that, in a world of bleakness, things aren't as bleak as all that.
4. The beautiful woman: male filmmakers can't resist this, especially if there are no real female characters. The moment the guy mentioned that he had a daughter, I thought, ". . . and she will appear, and she's beautiful." But the movie earns it. It's as refreshing as an oasis in a desert to see this figure in her halo of light, and the men's reactions to her create a lovely hiatus in a dark movie. Non-judgmental, she bestows compassion and grace. Then, we see her doing mundane chores, battling with the wind, living her life and struggling just like everyone else in a poetic coda to the dinner scene.
Yes, great points Ihaup15150...
Remember when the doctor tries to give Kenan the cigarette and Naci scolds him, saying that the guy is bad (like all of those types), he recognised your weakness and is exploiting it. But in the car Kenan thanks the doctor for trying to help him.
The police chief had the cynical view, the doctor is choosing a more positive one.