MovieChat Forums > Black Panther (2018) Discussion > The Point That People Missed.

The Point That People Missed.


Everyone seems to have missed the subtle point the writers were making with this film.

"Bury me in the ocean with my ancestors that jumped from the ships," says Killmonger.

But Killmonger's ancestors were ALL Wakandans. He is literally the first one of his lineage to ever be born outside of Wakanda. His actual ancestors are privileged, rich, powerful people who have never experienced any kind of oppression, ever!

He is bitter and angry and blames everyone else for his problems to such an extent that he develops a victim mentality based purely on his ethnicity. 'I am black therefore I am oppressed.' Except he wasn't. He descends from the most comfortable, advanced society on the planet and has NO CONNECTION to the men that jumped from the ships, AT ALL. That they happen to have the same skin pigmentation as him is meaningless. We are not accountable for the actions (good or bad) of those who happen to look like us nor do we get to appropriate THEIR struggles.

Geddit?

This film is actually anti identity politics.

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You seem to forget that Killmonger had a mother.

Presumably she was American, and she and her family brought the little shit up in Oakland after his father died without leaving them any of that Wakandan money or tech. So yeah, it's highly likely that he had ancestors who came to the US via slave ships.

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Killmonger's claim of Wakandan entitlement (and the basis of his resentments) were built on his Wakandan father and that specific heritage.

His heritage was... privilege.

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You know, the secret of good trolling is to make your outrageous attention-getting statements at least somewhat plausible.

As if someone somewhere could actually believe what you're saying.

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A curiously infantile reply.

Not sure why you're so triggered.

Killmonger's entire character is built on his resentments and sense of entitlement (it's kinda the plot of the film). If he has any meaningful claim then it's entirely due to his privilege. Maybe it's been a while since you've watched the film.

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I dare you to go to Oakland and convince everyone there that Eric was "privileged".

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I dare you to go to several places and convince people they're privileged.

But how is geographical location relevant to skin colour?

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If you'd ever been to the sketchier parts of Oakland, you'd know you stupid your argument is.

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My argument that Killmonger's heritage is one of Wakandan privilege? Seems unlikely.

And again, how is geographical location relevant to skin colour here?

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[deleted]

Like I said: why so triggered?

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Nope.

You got immediately owned by the first person to reply.

Delete this thread.

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Yeah, I don't think so.

Owned is a word that eight year olds use (or adults with the equivalent intellect).

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Whereas the word "triggered" is the height of maturity, like when you wrote:

Not sure why you're so triggered


Seriously, delete this thread. You must be embarrassed by the ease with which everyone is dunking on you.

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Triggered is a word used to demonstrate a reaction. Most educated people are familiar with this and use the word casually in conversation to explain a negative reaction. Owned is something children (of a limited educational background) use. I'm sorry you don't see the difference or grasp the nuance of language.

Speaking of nuanced language could you tell me more about your understanding of the word 'everyone.' There are three people who have replied to my OP, one with an interesting point and two with... slightly inexplicable anger. I look forward to receiving your insightful correspondence on this.

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Painbow, since you brought up the subject of education and nuance of language, I checked your posting history for some insightful correspondence. Here is what I found:

"I'd eat shit directly from her arse." https://moviechat.org/nm7031512/Jet-Tranter/58c2fb37ff37fe00118d4f0d/Beautiful-Lady?reply=58c2fde3ff37fe00118d4f1d

"I'd heard such good things about this. What absolute anal gash it turned out to be. Spooky dread music and pretty aerial shots does a good sci-fi movie make. You dumb fucking spastics!!" https://moviechat.org/tt2543164/Arrival/58bdde1883031600110c2c2a/Just-Awful

"The lips, the arse, the everything. Magnificent bird." https://moviechat.org/tt0450897/The-Apprentice-UK/5c0488e700bbb770981b87c3/Camilla-is-Exquisite

"All he said was: I love Uranus." https://moviechat.org/nm1183205/Neil-deGrasse-Tyson/5c04811700bbb770981b8790/Responds-On-Being-Accused?reply=5c04881000bbb770981b87ba

... etc.

Clearly, a keen intelligence at work! I guess that's why you found "The Point That People Missed" in Black Panther...

LOL

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Stalking is a little creepy. It makes it seem like... I own you.

I'm genuinely curious at this point. Why are you so angry about an opinion you might disagree with? Sincerely. Your very first post on this thread was one of great anger. Essentially an attack.

I don't recall ever hurting you.

Do you want to talk about it?

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Can we talk about why you wrote "I'd eat shit directly from her arse" about an actress on an online forum? LOL

I'm genuinely curious. It's a little creepy...

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It was a joke. Is that not patently obvious?

You seem genuinely quite angry about this; and I'm not entirely sure why.

I'm happy to talk it through with you.

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Killmonger identified more with African Americans than with the Wakandans, which is likely why he wanted to be buried at sea. He did not want to be enslaved as a prisoner in Wakanda so he asked that he be brought out to sea like the would-be slaves who refused to be taken by boat. It was symbolic.

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Exactly. He 'identified' with the part of his heritage that could claim oppression.

Not the more obvious part that was steeped in privilege.

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To be fair, he was raised as an African American and his mother was African American so it’s not like he has no claim to it.

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Before the events of Black Panther, N'Jobu (Sterling K. Brown), the brother of the king of Wakanda, falls in love with a woman in Oakland and they have a child, who grows up to be Erik "Killmonger" Stevens (Michael B. Jordan). It is through his love for Erik's mother that N'Jobu changes his mind about the world outside of Wakanda, and decides he must help its people.

Bearing that in mind, I'm not sure why you think Killmonger wouldn't have any African American ancestors or connections to slavery.

As the first person to reply to your post pointed out (and who you ironically refer to as "infantile" and "triggered" even though he's simply correct), Killmonger's mother is from Oakland, California, not Wakanda.

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You're slightly missing the point. His heritage is as much privilege as oppression. That he focuses on the oppressed identity is a convenient narrative to position himself as a victim (it justifies his bitterness).

Had, for example, N'Jobu met and fallen in love with a with a white woman in Oakland would Killmonger have been any less bitter? I doubt it. He has appropriated an oppressed identity based on 1) his upbringing and 2) his skin colour. The point being that the latter does not necessarily make sense given his Wakandan lineage. That you look like the people of the past who experienced hardship does not mean you get to claim ownership of their struggles. How many white people have a black ancestor deep in the bowels of their family history? Quite a lot, I'd say. And yet they do not claim ownership of that struggle despite having an equally tenuous connection to it.

He is resentful based on an oppression that he simply has no sincere connection to. Because he believes looking like the slaves means he shares their pain. He simply doesn't. His bitterness consumed him.

Give people a narrative that justifies feeling like a victim and they will take it.

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Idiotic trolling from another sock account made by an uncreative, anti-social half-wit with nothing worthwhile to say.

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I'm beginning to suspect there are actually very few 'unique' users on this forum.

And what, pray tell, has triggered you so much, good sir?

The OP seems fairly reasonable to me.

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Be encouraged, I find your points on this thread insightful.

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Cheers.

The anger I've generated seems a little manufactured.

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He didn't grow up that way, though. He grew up fatherless and (presumably) poor.

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Someone's ancestry doesn't have to be limited to one country though. Kilmonger is bound to have ancestors throughout the continent. The same could go for many Wakandans.

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Well, wasn't Wakanda closed off for many centuries?

And wouldn't that also apply to literally everyone on the planet? We all have ancestors who were privileged and ancestors who were victims of oppression. But only when you look like those who have been historically oppressed (black people) can you take any ownership of that oppression.

Killmonger's bitterness goes beyond his father. The movie makes this explicit with the opening scene where he lectures the museum curator about stealing from Africa then the aforementioned line about jumping from the slave ships like his ancestors did. He has little connection to that experience, his actual (immediate) ancestry being linked to the rulers of what is, in fact, the most privilege civilisation on earth.

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Wakandans are concerned with revealing their technology to the world. They don't want to attract people with bad intentions. That's what they mean when they say Wakanda is closed off. It doesn't apply to Wakandans that have no access to any of it like M'Baku and all the tribes on the outskirts. Kilmonger's ancestry is shared with all Wakandans, not just those within the holographic dome, and not just those on the outskirts either.

Also, ancestry simply doesn't apply to country borders. Even if your family is primarily German, your ancestors are going to include Austrians, Slovenians, Belgians, etc. All those territories are identical DNA-wise. It's culture that you are describing, not ancestry.

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No, I'm quite specifically talking about his ancestry. His claim to Wakandan heritage involves a cultural component but his sense of injustice is entirely based on his skin colour. Unless you're describing black as a culture (which obviously, it isn't).

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And what I'm explaining to you is two things. 1) Ancestry goes beyond a single country. 2) Specifically in the case of Kilmonger, Wakandan heritage/ancestry/culture/whatever is all over the place, not just in the main city covered by a holographic dome which is the sole part of Wakanda that is kept under wraps.

So no matter what route you take to say Kilmonger has no ancestral connection to those who were taken by the slave trade, you are 100% wrong 100% of the time.

Keep in mind what Kilmonger's overall philosophy was. He was pissed off at Wakanda for not helping who? Their own people in neighboring regions. Ding, Ding.

That is the whole reason Ryan Coogler took the project. He understood the conundrum that if there was a Wakanda, there was a significant paradox with that kind of technology existing during the slave trade. And he also understood that if Wakanda's existence ever got out, there would be hell to pay for the decisions they made.

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I've already acknowledged that his (and everyone else's) ancestry travels through various cultures both oppressed and oppressive. That's kinda the point. You could just as easily make this claim for a white person. But you wouldn't based solely on skin colour. Likewise you accept Killmonger's claims for no reason other than the fact that he is black.

My point, and the one I genuinely believe the film is also making, is that you cannot have access to that oppression on such a ludicrously tenuous basis.

If, for example, Killmonger's great, great, great grandfather and grandmother (and beyond) were white, he would still (based on his current pigmentation) feel entitled to take ownership of that oppression. Meanwhile, if Everett K. Ross had great, great, great grandparents who were both black (and beyond), it would NOT be tolerated for him to do the same thing despite his lineage being more demonstrably and immediately connected to black people.

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