what exactly is so special about this movie? - Black Panther (2018) Discussion

[–] DarthRoger (867) 6 years ago

Battle Rhinos man!!!

Seriously though, it was over-hyped. A lot of critics declared it the "best Marvel movie ever", which it's clearly not.

Is it a fun movie? Sure.
Is it another solid MCU movie? Of course.
Is it better than Captain America: Winter Soldier, Avengers or Captain America: Civil War? No way.

I would even argue that Ant-Man is better as it was more enjoyable. Black Panther certainly belongs in the Top 10 of MCU movies however. I like the character and look forward to future BP movies.

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[–] exatera (3942) 6 years ago

Not just those two movies you mentioned - I watched Spider-Man Homecoming and Thor Ragnarok last week to catch up with everything before seeing Avengers Infinity War in theater tonight (and before I see Ant-Man and the Wasp next week), and both were much more entertaining, Thor especially.

To me Black Panther was pretty much the least dynamic and entertaining MCU movie of all of them. M'Baku was the only fun part, in a couple of moments.

Also, I looked just now, and there is almost a 20% gap between the critics' ratings for the movie and the audience on Rotten Tomatoes, which is never a good sign.

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[–] DarthRoger (867) 6 years ago

Yeah I saw that too, on the Audience Scores at RT. Also totally agree that Thor: Ragnarok was more fun than Black Panther.

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[–] Otter (24464) 6 years ago

I thought "Black Panther" was a blast! Not a great movie, but a very fun one. And yeah, BATTLE RHINOS.

I thought it was better than most of the Marvel films, better than "Civil War" and "Ant Man", and more to my taste than the serious "Winter Soldier". I'd probably put it in my top five, behind the marvelous "Guardians of the Galaxy", and "Iron Man 3", and I must confess... behind the absolutely idiotic "Thor: Ragnarok". Which I freely admit is a goofy mess, but one that's exactly the sort of goofy mess that I like.

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[–] DarthRoger (867) 6 years ago

Guardians of the Galaxy is such a damn fun movie! I can watch that one again and again.

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[–] Frogarama (12942) 6 years ago

Of course Ant Man was better, it's the best MCU film!

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[–] Frogarama (12942) 5 years ago

Ant-Man is the best! I love how the sequel simply feels like the second half of a 4 hour movie.

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[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

It had a decent villain.

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[–] Xenopharb (617) 6 years ago

I don't know. The film looked great, but it was noting special as far as MCU films go.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

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[–] QuickieCalzone (378) 6 years ago

Black cast.

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[–] Burk48917 (10980) 6 years ago

Sad but true. I actually saw reviews that said said it was great because it was important to make a movie like this right now featuring a mostly black cast. Ok, but how is that relevant to the quality of a movie?

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[–] QuickieCalzone (378) 6 years ago

It´s just sad that these reviewers don´t see the racism in their actions.
If you rate a movie better because a certain race of people is more involved in it, you are a f**king racist.
Black Panther is as mediocre as Marvel movies can get.

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[–] Burk48917 (10980) 6 years ago

Yeah, very middle of the road. Not the worst, FAR from the best.

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[–] AP (5258) 6 years ago

A lot of people even believed it was the first black superhero movie. It wasn’t by a long shot.

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[–] Wint3rFir3 (6924) 6 years ago

I haven't watched BP yet, but I assume that both films you mentioned are such a big deal to a lot of people because they are the firsts of their kind. Firsts that don't totally flop tend to be a big deal. They're marking moments in film history.

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[–] Burk48917 (10980) 6 years ago

That's just it, they aren't the first of their kind.

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[–] Wint3rFir3 (6924) 6 years ago

I don't think the 1974 Wonder Woman TV movie counts. And as far as I know, there's never been a Black Panther film. In an age of superhero films, where Superman and Batman has had a bunch of films for decades, and where Marvel is striking gold with even lesser known characters, this is a big deal, whether you like the movies or not.

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[–] Burk48917 (10980) 6 years ago

I actually thought you meant a black lead in a superhero movie. Obviously there hasn't been a black panther movie, but there hadn't been a Dr Strange, Ant-Man, or Iron Man. None of these characters were mainstream comic book hero's like Batman or Superman, but it's insane to suggest that Black panther is better than all of these, particularly Iron Man. As I mentioned in another comment, I read reviews that gave this high marks because it was "important", which is laughably not pertinent to a good movie. I think Wonder Woman is an amazing movie and deserves the praise it gets. By far the best DCU film, and that has no bearing on it being the first female lead superhero movie. Films should stand on the merit of quality only, social significance should be irrelevant.

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[–] Wint3rFir3 (6924) 6 years ago

As mentioned, I haven't seen BP. But not one person I know who's seen it has disliked it. Even people calling it overrated generally like it. So I think, much like WW, it also deserves the praise it gets - though I hold the right to change that opinion after I see it.

But if you mistook my answer to mean a black lead in a superhero movie, then why would I consider Dr. Strange, Ant-Man and Iron Man to be revolutionary when most of the film comic book superheroes we've had in the past and have currently are white men?

That is what has earned both WW and BP their hype - they are marking history in film exactly for the reason of being important. We got Iron Man, Ant-Man and Dr. Strange (among many other comic films) before we got a WW movie, and this over 40 years after the success of the WW TV show. Identical white male protagonists have been pretty much at the forefront of comic book film history - and not with any real justification.

BP isn't Spawn, where the ratio of African-American actors to non is something like 2:98. The opposite is true of BP. The writer, director and producer/s are Af-American, and the cast is mainly Af-American. The film is set in Africa, for pete's sake. This is a big deal, and if people want to vote based on that, then yeah, they're allowed and it is relevant and makes complete sense.

Also, BP is def better than at least Dr. Strange and Ant-Man. I thoroughly enjoyed Iron Man, so it'll be hard to top that, but BP doesn't have a Pepper Potts (as far as I know), so it's winning there.

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[–] Burk48917 (10980) 6 years ago

I'm curious why you feel the ethnicity of a cast and production crew should factor into the reviews in regards to the quality of a movie. As much as I support inclusivity, it's racism if a person's race is even considered. What would you think, and how would it be different if a white reviewer said "it's ok,but since it has a primarily white cast,it's great!"? There can't be a different set of rules in how we regard each other. And I think it is a good thing to have more diverse films,but they need to stand on their own merit. Also, I didn't think black panther was bad at all, but the way the RT score works,is that the majority of reviewers had to say this was better than EVERY Marvel movie so far. I'm involved in a lot of areas of fandom within comic books and movies, and the general consensus from the public is that BP is good,but nowhere near the best of them all, based solely on the quality of the movie. I'd think it would be a little insulting in fact, almost like applying a golf handicap because of their race. I know Jordan Peele was insulted when they gave him a golden globe for best comedy for Get Out, because a bunch of people just wanted to see that movie win something. That isn't equality, it's pandering.

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[–] Wint3rFir3 (6924) 6 years ago

As much as I support inclusivity, it's racism if a person's race is even considered

I apologize if this comes off as defensive or rude. But to me, this is a very privileged way of thinking. If you support inclusivity, then looking at comic book superhero films, you can see there is none. How can women feel included watching movies led and overpopulated by white men? How can any non-Caucasian person feel included? Who do we have representing us? In short, we want heroes too.
Rather than white reviewers saying, "since it has a primarily white cast, it's great!", people are generally saying "there's one or two non-white people in this, it's SJW bs that needs to stop forcing diversity!" which is essentially the exact same thing. Also, no one would ever have to say the former line because the casts are primarily white - that speaks for itself.
I agree with what you're saying about pandering, but I don't think that applies to BP given what people say they like about it. It's not just representing race, it's representing a lot of things that people like, especially in comparison to films coming out that they don't necessarily like. Example: Star Wars: The Last Jedi character Rey garners quite the hate-fest, but many people I've spoken to tell me BP 'got women right'.
It's also quite different from a lot of comic book superhero films, so it stands out more, much like GotG stood out. And it's the first of it's kind, so it's probably a breath of fresh air for some.
And again, no one I know dislikes it, so it isn't as divisive as a lot of other comic book superhero films. Gives many people a reason to appreciate it aside from its diversity - but the diversity obviously still factors in.

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[–] Burk48917 (10980) 6 years ago

You mistook me, because I think it is important to be more inclusive with minority representation. But good is good, regardless. This is a good movie, no doubt about it, I just bought the digital copy. But in my opinion, and the opinion of many to most fans of this genre, it simply doesn't deserve it's place at the top of the totem pole. And if it's only in that position because of the color of people's skin, I have issue with that. I'm not a whiner about Domino or Mary Jane being black,both of those actresses killed it. And the last Jedi is bad,but that has nothing to do with gender, lol, it had to do with the script.

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[–] Wint3rFir3 (6924) 6 years ago

In the name of keeping it civil, let's just agree to disagree. I respect your opinion and do understand what your saying, I just don't fully agree. Hopefully you can respect that. Let's leave it at that before this becomes a full-blown left v. right thing. Can we at least agree on that? Lol.

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[–] Burk48917 (10980) 6 years ago

I wasn't going to go there.We were discussing a somewhat serious but still movie related topic. I'll never be ok with placing merit of any kind on race alone, regardless of which race, but I'll leave it at that. Thanks for keeping it civil.

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[–] Frogarama (12942) 6 years ago

I think Wonder Woman is an amazing movie and deserves the praise it gets. By far the best DCU film, and that has no bearing on it being the first female lead superhero movie. Films should stand on the merit of quality only, social significance should be irrelevant.

So because you don't personally care about social significance, then you don't think anyone should! Originally I had a question mark there, but I removed it because you already used the word "should" and thus there is no question about it.

All hail the Lord Of Other People's Opinions, right here! Or perhaps... Pope Of Other People, aka P.O.O.P.

Also you're literally saying that black people and women should STFU if they happen to appreciate seeing variations from the standard white male action hero.

Typical view of the alt-right. Better get your Tiki torch and MARCH ON HOLLYWOOD!

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[–] Burk48917 (10980) 6 years ago

"Also you're literally saying that black people and women should STFU if they happen to appreciate seeing variations from the standard white male action hero."

I didn't say any of those things, perhaps you should Google the definition of the word "litterally" and educate yourself on one of the many things you are ignorant about. People can like a movie for any reason they want. Unlike the lefty that you are, I believe people have the right to have different opinions than me. I said social significance shouldn't have any merit on the QUALITY of the film, particularly from a reviewer, and based on the definition of the word, that is accurate. Words do have meanings frog. I also noticed you conveniently forgot to notice my white person comparison, but that's what you do when you don't want to be honest,don't you? One of your weakest trolling attempts frog, get back on your game.

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[–] R_Kane (15828) 6 years ago

But that’s one of the ironies of BP’s notoriety: it wasn’t the first comic book movie with a black superhero. Spawn and Blade both predate BP; and there may be others, for what little I know. It just was TREATED as if it were the first.

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[–] Wint3rFir3 (6924) 6 years ago

It’s definitely not the first African-American superhero film, but it’s the first of its kind in other ways. BP makes a much more concerted effort to feature a wide range of Af-American actors, musicians, writers, sets, etc. than all the films that came before it.

As I mentioned above, Spawn is a film with a primarily white cast. And from memory, it wasn’t hugely successful. I remember feeling like one of the eleven people who went to see it when it first came out. No one I knew talked about it or wanted to go see it, if they had even heard of it. Batman and Robin was much more well received than this film, if that tells you anything. Blade, while streets ahead of Spawn in terms of success, also features a heavily white cast. So does Steel, probably the worst of all the films I’ve mentioned here.

The most successful Af-American superhero film is probably Will Smith’s character Jay of Men in Black. And what do you know, the cast is predominantly white and Jay has a wiser, older white man as his partner and mentor, and he has yet to get the spotlight as the only hero of the film.

This alone isn’t reason to praise BP. But, considering all this, BP is unique and a milestone in film history.

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[–] R_Kane (15828) 6 years ago

As usual, your statement is deeper and more global than is common. You speak of the total project, not only of the protagonist. Few others are as observant, or articulate, or both. Thank you. I must say, though, that I can’t see Smith’s MIB character as being a superhero. His character in Hancock, a film I will never see again, was, though.

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[–] Wint3rFir3 (6924) 6 years ago

Such high praise. Thanks back. I don't think there's anything particularly observant about what I said - just basic facts.

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[–] R_Kane (15828) 6 years ago

“Just basic facts.” There used to be a phrase, “common sense.” I stopped using it about a decade ago. I changed it to “good sense,” which is no longer common. I appreciate you.

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[–] Wint3rFir3 (6924) 6 years ago

Stop it, I'm blushing. I kid, but thanks again. I like you as well.

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[–] NorrinRad (5019) 6 years ago

Overhyped: make exaggerated claims about (a product, idea, or event); publicize or promote excessively.

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I feel that both Black Panther and Wonder Woman were completely overhyped.
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Your assessment of your "Feelings" that the movie was "Overhyped" isn't borne out by the tremendous number of people who attended and enjoyed the movie, even described it as an experience, or an event probably "Felt" differently than you about the marketing and advertising for BP. The interesting thing is that your experience, your opinion and your "Feelings" are perfectly valid for whatever reason that you have.

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For an MCU movie especially I felt this one was very hard to get into.
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Finding the movie "very hard for you to get into" could mean that you personally could not get into the movie, the actors, the themes or whatever. But is that really the fault of the movie, the director or even the performance of the actors?

To your question, "What exactly is so special about this movie?". That can't be answered to any satisfaction for you because I don't think you're looking for an answer just confirmation as validation to what you did or did not experience.

Most reviewers and critics pointed to the costuming, interpretative Afro-Futurism as a story element (Which in and of itself was special and unique), multi-layered villain, complex hero (King, Superhero, Brother, etc), Wakandan Mythology as a character and strong ensemble. In some ways Black Panther can be viewed as a foreign film for most Americans as it deals with a story non-unique to the USA. In some ways it can be compared to Thor's first movie but more people knew who Thor was and were more familiar with Norse mythology.

The fact that there was so much interest in BP as a character and a movie wasn't about hype but demand and curiosity. The story is top notch and relevant, the performances are outstanding and very balanced with humor and raw emotion.

BP is more than a standard superhero movie like most of the MCU films to this point.

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[–] exatera (3942) 6 years ago

Interesting, when I watched both these movies I went to the message boards and saw many threads with sentiments similar to mine.

Also, it's ironic how you fail to see that what you are stating is merely your opinion also.

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[–] NorrinRad (5019) 6 years ago

Interesting, when I watched both these movies I went to the message boards and saw many threads with sentiments similar to mine.

Did I or did I not say this, "The interesting thing is that your experience, your opinion and your "Feelings" are perfectly valid for whatever reason that you have."?

But yes you are right that is just my opinion of your opinion. Maybe your feelings are not valid?

And how is it that I fail to see that what I stated was merely my opinion? It wasn't my opinion that the vast majority of those that attended the film described and rated the movie as excellent. How is that my opinion?

Metacritic would have words with thee. Do you know the meaning of ironic? Please explain where the irony is?

As I noted most reviewers and critics pointed out the aspects of the movie as I stated that they stated (or felt) were special to BP. Do you know that of the 50 top critics on Rottentomatoes not a single one gave BP it a rotten score? That is some pretty strong consensus if that means anything to you.

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Interesting, when I watched both these movies I went to the message boards and saw many threads with sentiments similar to mine.
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What is it about those two movies that you are trying to say but unwilling to state? I'll take a stab and please admonish me if I am incorrect. WW has a female lead and BP has an almost all Black cast which means they provoke the ire and are the bane of the Anti-SJW

WW must be special because it is a "Girl" thing.
BP must be special because it is an "African" thing.

As to coming to this board and or others when the movie premiered I was here also and those who thought the movie was just "meh" were clearly here.

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[–] exatera (3942) 6 years ago

What is even your point?

Learn to be more concise, I have no patience for these tl;dr's.

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[–] NorrinRad (5019) 6 years ago

tl;dr's = Wall of Words = You're only interested in your echo.

I'll make it simple for you.

BP is special.

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[–] exatera (3942) 6 years ago

tl;dr's = Wall of Words = You're only interested in your echo.

Yes, you are, you are pontificating in everything you write.

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[–] NorrinRad (5019) 6 years ago

Yes, you are, you are pontificating in everything you write.

Thank you, but there is nothing dogmatic about my responses.

Why won't cannibals eat clowns?

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[–] TMC-4 (19416) 6 years ago

https://www.datalounge.com/thread/21803119-oscars-won%E2%80%99t-televise-all-awards-adds-popular-film-category

Wonder Woman and Black Panther are not great movies and don’t deserve Oscar love.

The last 1/3 of Wonder Woman was... not great. I was disappointed by the last fight scene: it was dark and small scale and lacked energy. If you’re going to show two gods fighting make them use more than a small airstrip as their battlefield.

Black Panther’s fight scenes looked like they were choreographed by a first time action director. They were also too claustrophobic with not enough wide shots of the hand to hand combat scenes. And the CGI? horrible.

—Anonymous

reply 93 Yesterday at 4:30 PM

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[–] papamihel (1574) 6 years ago

Black cast in a superhero movie.
If this was a "White Bear" movie about some Norwegian neo-Viking fighting evil made by Marvel it would still make money but people wouldn't be as rabid and fanatical about treating a fantasy film as a revelation from God.

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