Stating that Africans were deprived of opportunities for centuries is factual.
Here comes the misdirection.
Your full quote:
"There's nothing inherently inferior about the black people, or any other non-white populations: the Whites simply deprived them from opportunities. So, I'm not talking history, or slavery, or even the Jim Crow (as if these are ancient history, which certainly they are not), I'm talking about now, or simply few decades ago."
As you stated yourself, you weren't talking about centuries. You were talking about now. You were using blacks being deprived of opportunities by whites as a reason for their problems now.
As I said, this is being taught to young blacks, setting them up for failure by ingraining in them that they're being held down whites, so their success or failure is out of their control.
Pretty much the definition of self-defeating.
Yes, slavery was a horrible thing, and yes, blacks were denied much more than opportunity. But there's nothing we can do to change that. These days, the vast majority of oppression of blacks is self-inflicted. Are whites responsible for the culture that glorifies crime and violence through music? Are whites responsible for the culture that not only downplays education, but actually mocks those who strive for it as 'acting white?'
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FilmBuff (6687)
6 years ago
I'm guilty of misdirection?
You've randomly slapped in a paragraph that SOMEONE ELSE WROTE, and used it to accuse me of arguing two different things. What user "lolkatz" writes is unrelated to what I write.
You stated that "the Whites simply deprived them from opportunities," with being a "self-defeating way to go through life."
I merely pointed out that historically, whites DID deprive blacks of opportunities, and I don't think that acknowledging that to be true is in any way self-defeating. I believe admitting the truth about our actions and our history is the best way to face the future.
The year 1441, over 50 years before the discovery of America, marks the beginning of African slavery, which lasted for more than 400 years. It ended recently enough that there are no doubt Americans alive today whose grandparents were born into slavery, and it wouldn't be stretch to imagine a few whose parents were slaves.
Even after slavery ended, black Americans continued to be denied basic rights. Yes, 54 years ago the Civil Rights Act passed, and things have continued to improve. If we only looked at a snapshot of today we could say legal, and most overt, racism, is a thing of the past. But we also have to acknowledge that 523 of slavery, persecution, and denial of rights is likely very, very directly responsible for the disparity we see today in income, education, crime, etc. between blacks and non-blacks.
No, we can't change the past. But we can admit that the present was shaped by the past, and acknowledge what that past was. And if that past put one segment of our society at a huge disadvantage, I do not think it is self-defeating for a member of that segment to realize that his road to success will be harder than someone whose skin is a different color.
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SnagsWolf (1172)
6 years ago
Sorry, I thought you'd made the original post.
Doesn't change the fact that blacks of today never experienced slavery, and whites of today never enslaved anyone. Especially whites like me whose ancestors immigrated to America after the Civil War.
But we also have to acknowledge that 523 of slavery, persecution, and denial of rights is likely very, very directly responsible for the disparity we see today in income, education, crime, etc. between blacks and non-blacks.
And here we have it again, leaning on the crutch of blaming others. Drilling it into young people's heads that although most discrimination has been wiped out, they STILL can't make it because whitey is keeping them down.
And the results are clearly evident. You even admit we've made gains in discrimination, but race relations are as bad as they've ever been. Black children are being raised to have a chip on their shoulders against whites, being told it's the whites' fault they have all these problems.
No matter how much you try to deny it, that is self-defeating. That's teaching your children that they have a built-in excuse to fail.
And I see you completely ignored my points about black culture. A black culture that needs to take responsibility for what they're doing to themselves. Or are whites to blame for that too?
The truth is, the vast majority of white American's want blacks to join in as equal citizens. They want them to succeed. But on the other hand, the vast majority of white Americans look at the black murder and crime rates, and how much they're killing each other, and how the black culture rejects education, and they wonder what the fuck is going on? And they also wonder why they're being blamed for that.
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FilmBuff (6687)
6 years ago
What you are calling "leaning on the crutch of blaming others," I call accepting reality. Just because blacks have rather recently been given rights equal to whites doesn't undo the 500+ years that came before that.
It's like a race is being run, but one runner had to start a mile behind the other runners. What you're arguing about black culture is the same as someone saying "all the runners are on the same track, following the same rules, and it isn't the fault of the other runners that the one guy is behind. It's his own fault for not running faster."
No one is blaming you, or anyone else, for what's going on today, but I will say you are being willfully ignorant if you can't see that the problems facing African Americans today are the direct result of more than five centuries of abuse at the hands of whites.
I don't find it at all self-defeating to acknowledge the truth. I think it WOULD be self-defeating for an African American to think like you do-- that everything is hunky dory now, and no one is holding anyone back anymore, and if he can't make a success of himself, it's no one's fault but his own. We agree that black culture is a mess, but it didn't come out of a vacuum, and it isn't the fault of those stuck in it today that it's the way it is.
There's no quick fix or magic solution, and race relations being worse today makes perfect sense. Whites fucked blacks over for over 500 years, then passed a few laws and said "all better" and are now acting shocked that blacks often have fucked up communities and values.
A person can be responsible for his actions while still acknowledging that he is at a huge disadvantage for reasons beyond his control. You call that self-defeating, I call it accepting the truth.
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