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BP's Domestic Box office is Greater than the Combo of BvS + JL Domestic?

posted 6 years ago by NorrinRad (5008)
40 replies | jump to latest

Marvel's Black Panther's domestic box office currently stands at $562 Million and over the next weeks, even with the customary drops, will soon reach $600 Million domestic. There is something driving this besides Representation. The Dark Knight and DKR both grossed $534 and $448 Million respectively as the superhero demand started growing.

In my opinion the popularity of the MCU and the Marvel brand have helped BP reach this lofty result. Warner/DC management should be absolutely embarrassed for destroying the IP for DC characters including Batman. I personally think Batman is over exposed and DC has become crippled by an over reliance on Batman, but the real problem is that Warner/DC is too wedded to a particular fan base. It's great that Warner/DC listens to their fans but it is criminal that they kowtow to those same fans. The tail is now wagging the dog.

It makes no sense that a B-List character like Black Panther (based on comic title sales, media exposure and overall popularity) should suddenly be this in demand. I think Marvel/Disney has been riding a wave of luck, timing and momentum. With luck being the residue of hardwork.

BP was created in 1966 without much fanfare and that wasn't blind luck; but to execute to the tune of crossing $1 Billion in 2018?! Success means that Disney/Marvel work very hard on crafting a viable entertainment product.

BvS made $330 Mil Domestic and JL made $228 Mil Domestic. BP garnering more than those two movies combined domestically is insane. It is criminally insane. At some point the DCEU will become irrelevant to the MCU and maybe that is Warner's plan to remain distinct and different. But how is Warner/DC going to win back audiences for their films in the long run?

[–] howgamer (3642) 6 years ago

DC should be embarrassed for how they tried to rush everything and it backfired immensely. I love the DC characters, but the BvS and JL stories were done extremely poorly. I mean if you're going to put Doomsday in BvS then at least make it a trilogy.

Irrelevant in what way? Sure in terms of $$$ they can't come close to Marvel right now, but they are still making money overall and they still have a large fan base. It's going to take at least 10 years and a hard reboot for them to win over audiences for their films. People need time to forget BvS and JL and for Marvel to slow down once infinity wars concludes, who knows maybe post infinity war MCU will not be as well received since they will be losing some major actors/actresses, although I doubt it as critics and audiences seems to love every Marvel film and the box office shows that.

[–] ranmast (620) 6 years ago

True. This fact is so overwhelming that embarrassment is the better/easier feeling DC should be confronting right now...

[–] NorrinRad (5008) 6 years ago

Irrelevant in what way? Sure in terms of $$$ they can't come close to Marvel right now, but they are still making money overall and they still have a large fan base. It's going to take at least 10 years and a hard reboot for them to win over audiences for their films. People need time to forget BvS and JL and for Marvel to slow down once infinity wars concludes, who knows maybe post infinity war MCU will not be as well received since they will be losing some major actors/actresses, although I doubt it as critics and audiences seems to love every Marvel film and the box office shows that.

Audiences are becoming attached to the characters of the MCU and not only want to see them but don't want to see anything happen to them because audiences have grown to care about these characters.

DC is losing that type of relevancy to the point they don't care if their heroes are even on the screen. Just look at DC's current venture into the New Gods. WOW! That is such a reach to basically look past their current staple of heroes to jump over to a whole new set. IN some ways it's like Marvel bringing in the Guardians of the Galaxy. The New Gods would be like adding the InHumans to the MCU.

[–] howgamer (3642) 6 years ago

I'm not sure if audiences are more attached to the characters or the MCU brand/formula. I think BP is good reflection that Marvel can take a relatively unknown character and make it one of it's most successful films in terms of income because people love the MCU brand/formula.

I disagree that DC doesn't care, in that, I think they need their main heroes on screen right now in order to get audiences excited or motivated to come to the theater. I mean we just had JL so I don't think they are looking past their staple of heroes. I think the introduction of the New Gods is another example of DC rushing everything. They were looking for some threat to the JL and in just two movies we have a plethora of new characters introduced instead of fleshing all of these characters out over multiple films. I think whoever is in control at DC, just has this mindset that they need to catch up to Marvel or get everything established as quick as possible which unfortunately has resulted in some pretty crappy films.

[–] FilmBuff (6669) 6 years ago

The core problem is that DC makes films aimed at a very narrow audience-- teenagers, and adults who still act like teenagers, who are avid readers of their comics. Marvel creates movies made for adults that happen to feature characters from their comic books, with elements that will also appeal to teens, and are enjoyable to people who don't read comic books.

[–] billbrown7071 (3193) 6 years ago

While I agree With everything you said about DC/WB and Marvel Brand....

I have to disagree With regards to Specificall Black Panther.

I think Its perfectly clear Black Panther has Drastically Over performed due to its Cultural Impact

Black Panthers eventual 630 Million dollar + domestically gross can NOT be chalked up ONLY to the Marvel Brand

The facts are this film drastically over performed...and it over performed as a direct result of The Cultural impact the film is having

This film was tracking at 90 to 100 Million dollars, Which is damn near identical to other MCU debuting characters films...Doctor Strange opened to 90 M+, GOTG opened to 90 M+...

the point is the Marvel Brand is certainly real, and it is certainly HUGE, audiences now see MCU films like Pixar....after going 18 and 0, you build Trust, Audiences are invested in these characters and these films...

But Black Panthers Success is MORE than The Marvel Brand....Its The Marvel Brand + an entirely new audience that saw Black Panther because of its Cultural Impact...

The Marvel Brand is huge, and Black Panther would have made between 700 to 800 M WW just based on The Marvel Brand...But there is a HUGE portion here with Black Panther Particularly that goes beyond The Marvel Brand and Its Mainly Domestically.

Black Panther probably didnt get much Much Bump overseas from The Cultural Impact of this film....But BP absolutely got a HUGE bump in Box office domestically from The Cultural Impact of this film

now there is an argument to be made that Marvel Brand and The foundation they laid aloud Black Panthers cultural Impact to be fully realized ....

for example Why did Wonder Woman only make 100 M on OW, Yet it had similarly great reviews and also had a HUGE Womens movement behind it, The answer is simply, It was fighting the disastrous start of The DCEU...the first 3 DCEU films were awful and Lost Audiences, Therefor WW even with this huge Womens movement couldnt reach its Potential

Black Panther on the other hand made 200 M on OW....why did it double what WW made despite having similar reviews and a similar "Movement behind it"...the answer is simply...The Marvel Studios Brand right now is so hot, so trusted, it aloud Black Panther to reach its full Potential from The Cultural Movement...

so basically what I'm saying is....theres no way you can possible give 100% credit for Black Panthers Massive box office to The Marvel Studios brand....

The Marvel Studios Brand clearly has a Pattern...and its 90 to 120 Million OW and between 650 to 850 Million World.....and thats incredible!

but it took BOTH The Marvel Studios Brand and The Massive Cultural impact of Black Panther for it to make this much....

A 630 M+ domestically gross is just not even in comprehension...No one would have thought or predicted that...The Marvel Studios "Brand" Is about half that...Domestically, BP got a HUGE bump from the cultural impact of the film With The Marvel Studios Brand helping to maximize that BUMP

I do believe though the Marvel Studios Brand Is Growing even more....if you look at the last 6 MCU films, the Pattern is Increasing...

Civil War,Doctor Strange,GOTg2,Homecoming, Thor 3 , Black Panther

5 out of the 6 have grossed over 117 Million on OW....

5 out of the 6 have grossed over 300 Million domestically

5 out of the 6 have grossed over 850 Million World Wide

before this, The you could make a case the Marvel Studios Brand averaged/guaranteed a 80 to 90 Million OW, a 200 Million + domestic gross and 650 Million + world....

Now it seems the Marvel Studios Brand Guarantees a 115 Million + OW, 300 Million + domestic Gross and 850 M WW

NO doubt The Marvel Studios Brand is on fire due to constant quality films that Audiences love and are invested in....No doubt the DCEU is on its DEATH Bed from constant Awful films....

but with Black Panther Specifically, I think Its More than Just The Brand working here

[–] NorrinRad (5008) 6 years ago

I don't think I ever implied or stated that the BP success train was 100% due to Marvel branding. I don't even remotely disagree with your post.

I will make the argument that the domestic results are not 100% driven by "Blacks" or "African Americans" and the cultural pride isn't a 100% Black American or African American experience that drives the bulk of this "moment". I'll also suggest that this success isn't reproduceable for the same audience.

When it comes to predicting the movie going habits of People of Color the market place isn't very accurate. The Nielsen company is trying very hard to get more data on how People of Color consume media, products, data and entertainment. Most surveys have a very limited representative sample that doesn't allows for any accuracy for People of Color. As well as still leaning too far in on social stereotypes and anecdoctal evidence. Bootlegging and pirating as examples.

I don't know how to slice the BOX office pie for BP but the excess isn't exclusive to "Blacks" needing representation to be fulfilled on screen and thusly heavily attending and over-attending BP.

Hollywood is risk averse but copy-cat prone. Any other studio trying to take advantage of the demand that is demonstrated by BP won't come close if they indeed try and create a product to be consumed in the way that Marvel/Disney has just done. I'm pretty much all over the map on this one. I'll get back to this later and edit this better.

Bottom line is I don't disagree with you but you're also reading more into what I originally typed which wasn't my point.

[–] billbrown7071 (3193) 6 years ago

I don't know how to slice the BOX office pie for BP but the excess isn't exclusive to "Blacks" needing representation to be fulfilled on screen and thusly heavily attending and over-attending BP.

^^^

I dont think theres a 100% accurate way to know exactly....But I do think Marvel Brand and the audience that comes to see them is GROWING and it starting to become Calculable ...

I think as of Right NOW...almost any MCU film is gonna do between 650 to 850 M WW....and Open between 80 to 120 M...

I think well get final confirmation of that in July when Ant-Man and The Wasp comes...In 2015, It opened to 57 M and made 520 M WW....IMO I think Ant-Man and The Wasp's gonna open close to 85 Million and make 700 M WW...If this happens...this will be a HUGE indicator just how much the Marvel Brand has Grown in just the last 3 years and How Much more of an Audience the Marvel Brand guarantees...

So if I'm right...thats means Black Panther was guaranteed to make between 650 to 850 M....and given the reviews it got and word of mouth, It probably would have been closer to 800 to 850 M

So just on a rough number, I think Black Panther Cultural Impact, Had about a 400 Million dollar + impact...

and I think damn near all of it came Domestically, I think Black Panther may have got a small Bump overseas, But no more than 50 to 100 M

Black Panther Will end up over 650 M Domestically....IMO easily 350 Milion of that gross is Due to the Cultural Impact of the film...

I think most expected BP to open around 90 to 110 and make around 300 M Domestically.

again as you said we'll never know for sure, But I bet we can get a decent number on it, it may not be 100%, But I bet its close to 80% accurate

[–] ranmast (620) 6 years ago

Wow! There goes the theory that MCU only can make a billion with RDJ in the movie.

[–] NorrinRad (5008) 6 years ago

A:IW will solidly put that Theory back in play.

Or will it be the "African/Black Cultural Event" theory that will dominate??

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, it makes one wonder.

[–] maximmm (3033) 6 years ago

I know black peeps who saw this film 3 times or more.
I honestly don't get peeps who see the same film 3 times during the same week - whether it's BP or Star Wars. But yes - if you are successful at luring those 'we need to see this film 3 times to get it' peeps, you are golden.

[–] QueenFanUSA (3374) 6 years ago

You seem to be forgetting two highly profitable DCEU blockbusters...Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman. Also, Wonder Woman 2 will certainly be a monster hit and James Wan's Aquaman is almost certain to rock the box office this Christmas.

[–] MovieFan007 (317) 6 years ago

JL and BvS should be the big franchise titles when it comes to profit, that's why they're mentioned here. The same way you have two Avengers titles taking the top spot when it comes to Marvel.

[–] QueenFanUSA (3374) 6 years ago

Money is money whether it comes from a team-up or a standalone.

Using your logic would disqualify AOU or Civil War because they should have made more than BP.

The fact remains that Wonder Woman is a stunning success and WW2 is as sure-fire a hit as they come. Also, anyone that is betting against James Wan's Aquaman is not being wise.

[–] MovieFan007 (317) 6 years ago

Just because a movie makes less than its predecessor doesn't make it a failure. There's a limit a title needs to earn to call it a success. Audience are probably saturated with the CBM so they probably won't chew it up the way they did two years ago. Unless a studio brings something new to the picture the way WW and BP did. AOU wasn't that good of a movie but it wasn't a failure. The same can't be said about JL and BvS. AIW didn't need a boost from the BP but I'm sure they'll use it for all the extra bucks. JL should've received a boost from the success of WW but look how that turned out.

As for DC in general producing only one movie this year is not a good sign. Aquaman isn't exactly a fan favorite compared to the rest of the Justice League and the lead actor is not that big of a star compared to say Ben Affleck. Heck even Fox has three CBM this year and that's coming off that horrid Apocalypse movie that was a financial flop.

[–] howgamer (3642) 6 years ago

I think BvS was quite profitable as well. Didn't it hit around 800 or 900 worldwide? However, I don't believe it was anywhere near expectations and the same can be said for JL.

[–] QueenFanUSA (3374) 6 years ago

Yes...you are correct. BvS was quite profitable at a nearly 900 million dollar gross.

[–] billbrown7071 (3193) 6 years ago

by quite profitable do you mean made a Small 100 Million dollar Profit?

and was literally LESS profitable than Ant-Man?

BvS was a disaster.....WB spent over 400 Million dollars to make a tiny 100 Million dollar profit....

for comparison....Disney spent....250 M on Age Of Ultron and made 390 Million in Profit, 225 Million On The Avengers and made 500 Million + in Profit, 220 M on IM3 and made 392 Million In Profit, 200 Million On Black Panther and made 460 M + in Profit and 300 Million On AIW Will make 700 Million + ....

spending that much money to make such a small Profit is a horrible investment!

Wonder Woman made 252 Million in Profit on a 150 Million budget......this is a good investment....BvS is a complete disaster for WB....the damage that film did to Batmans earner power(Batman was a proven billion dollar earner before Snyder got a hold of him and The damage BvS did to Justice League was simply not worth the pathetic 100 Million they made in Profit)

and by far the most embarrassing comparison....Ant-Man made 102 in Profit from a 130 Million Budget....lol Ant-Man was more profitable and a better investment than BvS...

[–] ranmast (620) 6 years ago

Oh yes, for Wonder Woman, the best DCEU movie, we have Thor 3, a comedy. Yes, a comedy crap all over the highly profitable WW, by making more money, by selling more tickets. Also, nice to mention Homecoming and Guardians of the Galaxy 2 making more money than WW, all in the same year. Ouch! However, since you want to talk about the future, the future of WW is Black Panther. A "C" list character from Marvel beating the crap out of one of the Trinity. Banging her and impregnating WW with real success...

Yes, Marvel doesn't even need his big guns to destroy DCEU, just with their B and C character they give them enough embarrassment for a life time...

And yes, enjoy the success of Suicide Squad, the worst of the DECU lot. When teaching people about movies, you can use SS as a great example of crappy movie making lots of money.

[–] QueenFanUSA (3374) 6 years ago

Domestically, where studios keep the highest % of the gross BY FAR, WW kicked the snot out of TR,SMH and GOTG2.

What else you got?

[–] ranmast (620) 6 years ago

Since you cannot give any real data about this, your assertions means shit. Which movies sold more tickets?

Domestically? Which movie made more money? DCEU lost again... Ha, ha, ha...

[–] ranmast (620) 6 years ago

Facts, facts, facts....

Spider-Man: Homecoming Sony $880.2
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 BV $863.8
Thor: Ragnarok BV $854.2
Wonder Woman WB $821.8

Facts, facts, facts...

Not delusions from butthurt DC fanboys...

[–] billbrown7071 (3193) 5 years ago

[–] QueenFanUSA (1438) a year ago

Domestically, where studios keep the highest % of the gross BY FAR, WW kicked the snot out of TR,SMH and GOTG2.

What else you got?

^^^^

lol classic trolling coming back to bite you...

Using your same logic....

Captain Marvel Kicked The snot of WW and Then Bitched slapped Her right?

you know since ummmmm Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman have same 150 Million Budget....

and since Captain Marvel Is Heading for at Least 200 Million world wide more than WW and will either Match or exceed WWs domestic gross.....

poor queen never thinks long term....

congrats, your own logic proves Captain Marvel Is a bigger success than WW...

[–] QueenFanUSA (3374) 5 years ago

Riiiiigggghhhht...just keep telling yourself that CM will match or beat WW domestically.

[–] billbrown7071 (3193) 5 years ago

Riiiiigggghhhht...just keep telling yourself that CM will match or beat WW domestically.

^^^

lol I can only say the facts...

I'm sorry...Captain Marvel is currently on Pace to have a 400 Million + domestic run...

thats not me predicting or bragging...those are just the facts...

Its keeping pace with WW domestically daily, It already A ton ahead on totals, and Is about to have a much better 2nd weekend...

right now the facts just say CM is pacing toward a 400 M+ domestic total....

you may not want to accept that...and you could even be right...

Its entirely possible the facts could change...but as of right now....

a 400 Million domestic gross is where were headed, especially with a 2nd Weekend above 65 M....

early projections have CM at 70 to 72 M....I think it will fall under 70 M....But as long as it over 65 M+....CM is comfortably pacing for a 400 M+ domestic total

[–] QueenFanUSA (3374) 6 years ago

It looks like it's time at #1 may have come to an end.

Tomb Raider made 2.1 million in previews last night. That should put it on pace to make at least mid-30s this weekend...could cross 40 million.

Stay tuned guys!

[–] ranmast (620) 6 years ago

Ha, ha, ha... Wrong as always...

[–] Bubbathegut (17215) 6 years ago

not all the time...

[–] NorrinRad (5008) 6 years ago

[–] Bubbathegut (3100) 2 hours ago
not all the time...

Blind squirrels in a peanut farm and Broken clocks don't get extra points for getting it right. Zero points are awarded for stating the obvious. Duhhhhh!!!

[–] NorrinRad (5008) 6 years ago

Queen, I think most of your predictions appear to be based on what you hope will happen and what YOU personally want to happen regardless of industry data and analysts' observations, which is why you are so often way off. You have a clear bias against Disney and have a disdain for most Marvel titles, not all, MOST.

Yes, you were wrong again and by a lot. I too was wrong and thought the Box Office would be much closer between the two.

I over estimated Tomb Raider and I continue to underestimate the reach and appeal of BP.

[–] filmschooldegree (350) 6 years ago

Sulky DC fanboys are absolutely livid at this result - seeing their supposed pop culture icons absolutely destroyed by a minor Marvel character makes them rage in frustration. You can tell their inner racist threatens to break from their core if not for the fact that only a woman is keeping their franchise afloat now.

[–] NorrinRad (5008) 5 years ago

Sulky DC fanboys are absolutely livid at this result - seeing their supposed pop culture icons absolutely destroyed by a minor Marvel character makes them rage in frustration.

I am definitely NOT instigating but I am curious as to why that cadre of Marvel naysayers haven't returned now that Warner/DC has two bona-fides to beat their collective chests about.

I'm also surprised they haven't trotted out that the Box Office figures of the first 5 or 6 DCEU films have seriously out grossed the first 5 or 6 MCU films by a very wide margin.

It is as if they just got...….........….decimated...……………… in the Snappening!! …………………………………….