Rosie and Gary


who else here feels sorry for them?

I really feel sorry for Gary....for someone who did not want to father a child, he is an involved father.

They are two people who are struggling to make ends meet, who love their son and are making a life.

I didnt see anything wrong with their parenting- they didnt leave him home alone (nothing was implied in the book about rosie leaving Hugo home alone at 6 weeks or have PPD)....she read to him, played with him, hugged him when she came home, she took him with her everywhere and she is a dedicated mother- she probably spends more time and love on Hugo than most mummies.

They move away at the close of the book and she wants to have another baby....i hope things work out for them

reply

You do know they are fictional characters, and not real people right? Haven't you got better things to hope for?

reply

[deleted]

Hello fairpenguin, I was wondering when you'd post here after the last episode. HA HA. I guess I just thought it was odd to be so emotionally involved in the fate of (fictional) characters after the story ends. Did anyone hope that Scarlett O'Hara's life would work out OK when she thought about it tomorrow? But you're right of course, posters can say what they want on this board and we can comment on it (or not).

reply

nothing was implied in the book about rosie leaving Hugo home alone at 6 weeks or have PPD


I think you need to read the Rosie chapter again. Not it doesn't have the part about her leaving Hugo, however it very, very strongly implies that she had Post-partum Depression.

Here is an extract:

But what she did remember vividly-could never forget-as they tried to prise the child out of her, was that all she knew, all she wanted, was that it be taken away from her. She had made a terrible, unspeakable mistake.
For the first six months, every time she held Hugo she shook with terror. She was convinced that she would kill him. Every time he cried she felt herself shrinking further from him. He was an Alien being; he was going to destroy her.

...
She did not want to be a mother...but ths strange, evil beast that could not feel love for the child she had bought into the world...


It goes on for a bit longer. It then states that she wanted to leave Hugo and just run away. That was a bit of a 'turning point' where she realised that Hugo needed her. I believe the series put in that she actually did leave Hugo as it was a way of demonstrating Rosie's feelings without having to have a long monologue about it.

On the note of Rosie and Gary, I do not feel sorry for them in the slightest. Not only are disadvantaging Hugo by not disciplining him, they are fairly awful in their treatment of the other adult characters in the book. Gary is an alcoholic - drowning out the fact that he is miserable with his life instead of doing something about it, while Rosie is the perpetual victim. The two incidences that made me actually dislike her and have no pity were when she dragged Bilal into her problems, and then towards the end of book in the Aisha chapter when she flips out at Aisha for going to Harry's house. I actually disliked her intensely when we saw how worried Aisha was about even telling Rosie that she was going to Harry's. Rosie is a self-centred brat who can't see that other people's lives don't revolve around her and her 'problems.'
Of course Harry shouldn't have slapped Hugo - nothing excuses that - but it was preventable if Rosie or Gary had stepped in earlier, and would have been less traumatic for everyone if they had just moved on - instead of continually reminding Hugo of it, dragging everyone else into it - nearly destroying the lives of other people they 'care' about - and destroying any remnants of a 'happy home' that they may or may not have had. I also want to point out that I couldn't care less how much money they have, and I do, I guess, have sympathy for her in having PPD (it's no fun at all) however it is how they handle themselves in their relationships - with their son and friends - that bothers me and strips away any sympathy I may have felt.

Me and Brits are done with story time and we wants to get our recess on

reply

I dont get it...everyone is going on about Gary being an alcoholic....everyone miss Hector and Harry's bouts of cocaine use? Or Aisha/Hector/Harry's cheating?

Arent those a 'disadvantage' to the children?

Or are Rosie and Gary the classic term or 'better the devil you know'....sure they are not perfect and they have their flaws but they love their son and they are trying to make it work- like people do.

Rosie demands loyalty and there is nothing wrong with that.....she has been let down all her life and she is emotionally rooted in her relationship with Gary- they have a co dependant relationship which isnt ideal....but then whose relationship is? no relationship is perfect, its all a matter of trying to make it work and Gary and Rosie do that, just like everyone else in the book and in real life.

reply

I definitely don't condone any of the things that the other characters in this book do. I think most of them are pretty reprehensible.

But you're the one who started this thread and it is about Gary and Rosie. I don't know where the other characters come into it. Just because they have done bad things, doesn't negate the fact that Gary and Rosie have too.

I have to disagree also on the point where you say what Rosie and Gary have is making a relationship work. If that is a working relationship then you have very low standards.

There's also a thing as expecting loyalty from friends - which is normal - unlike Rosie who is basically a self absorbed bitch who can't understand that other people's lives don't revolve around her and her problems. She doesn't have to be around Harry, and while it's not ideal that her friend is, Rosie has to understand that Harry is Aisha's husband's family and sometimes a wife has to do stuff with her husband's family. She took it as a personal insult rather than being understanding of her friend who clearly didn't want to see Harry but felt obliged to also. Aisha was being dragged both ways and a true friend would have some understanding of that.

Me and Brits are done with story time and we wants to get our recess on

reply

While I realise this is just a work of fiction, I cant see how anyone would feel sorry for Rosie. I think women like her (the forever victim) are a disgrace to the human race. I have met lots of people who came from horrible childhoods but are still good adults. While I dont condone cheating or abuse,I dont see how Hector/ Aisha, Harry/Sandi or Gary/ Rosie are any different or better then each other.Rosie was so quick to say things about Harry and Sandis' marriage when her own is just as bad. They are all dysfunctional couples when you get to the bottom of it. To be honest with the exception of Bilal and Shamira all the other couples are bad.

reply

I have to disagree also on the point where you say what Rosie and Gary have is making a relationship work. If that is a working relationship then you have very low standards.

--------------------------------------------------

I have realistic standards. I have seen too many times where parents are trying to kill each other, where parents beat and throw things and bring strangers round and have sex with them while the kids are in the other room....parents who are shouting and screaming through windows and are too busy fighting to care whether the kids have had dinner or not.

In comparison, Hugo is well fed and loved. He sees his mother and father, his mummy reads to him, his dad plays with him and sure his parents fight and drink, but then Rosie has always been able to look after him. Rosie gives him love to compensate for the love she never felt in her own life- what parent can do more?



I feel sorry for them too, but think of them as being more dysfunctional than you do, I think.


what family isnt dysfunctional? there is no such thing as the perfect family, all families have their share of *beep* ...show me a family who are all upstanding and function as clockwork, who never put a foot wrong or have never made a mistake, who never fight and who never say/do something out of line....

Rosie and Gary are two imperfect people doing the best they know to do with what little resources they have.


Gary's pessimistic world view e.g. there is no God, there is no Santa
--------------------------------

Not believing in God and Santa is not pessimistic. Plenty of non believers who are wonderful parents out there....you dont have to be a religious zealot to instil values into your children.


To be honest with the exception of Bilal and Shamira all the other couples are bad.
----------------------------------

Isnt that statement rather narrow minded?

Bilal told Rosie to stay away from his wife and said to keep Hugo away from them too. Doesnt that sound controlling to you? He should let his wife make her own choices.

Also he is tarring a 5 yr old boy with judgement and labels, is that fair to you?

Bilal and Shamira are hardly the best.....they have their fair share of *beep* too and it seems Bilal is very dominant and what goes on behind their closed doors i dread to think.

No couple on this show is perfect.....including Bilal and Shamira. But then, no couple in real life is perfect and this book/film portrays that very well


reply

I realize your social work background gives you a different aspect of the families out there than maybe the rest of us uninformed mortals. But isn't it better to look to a family situation that's better than your own and aspire to it rather just thinking 'nobody's perfect, we're not too bad, there's a lot worse out there, in comparison.
Bilal had every right to say what he did to Rosie, who was it that said Aisha didn't want Harry around her children because he was a bad influence. Bilal used the same logic, he didn't want Rosie and Hugo to be a bad influence on his family. Rosie very quickly cast Shamira aside when she was there to support her during the trial but again went running to them when she needed them that night. USER!
The only thing I agree with you is about the religion part, it should not be imposed on anyone.

reply

^This. Completely agree with you SPfromOZ.

SunshinePink: Obviously you are coloured by your work, but I still think your point is irrelevant. Just because there are other worse parents out there, it doesn't automatically make Rosie and Gary good parents. All parents are different so I see no point in comparing them to come up with a judgement of whether one set is doing a good job or bad. In your work do you look at someone who has hit there kid and then say "oh well at least they didn't rape them?" - no, you look at what they have or haven't done to provide for their child, not what the parents next door have done in comparison and make a judgement based on that.

Me and Brits are done with story time and we wants to get our recess on

reply

[deleted]

Great post.

Me and Brits are done with story time and we wants to get our recess on

reply

[deleted]

This is going to sound incredibly harsh, but I would have had sympathy for Sandi at the point where, prior to the happenings of the book, she was beaten to a pulp. I lost all sympathy for her when she chose to return to that situation. I am incredibly aware of how hard it can be to leave an unhealthy or abusive relationship however at that point in time she would have had A LOT of support in leaving Harry. And then I particularly lose more sympathy for her when she chooses to bring children in to the world with that man and stay in that environment. I am in no way saying it was is her fault he is an abusive prick, however she did have choices and opportunities to leave that situation and chose not to, so my sympathy ends there.

Me and Brits are done with story time and we wants to get our recess on

reply

almoll i see you have no sympathy for victims of domestic abuse. Which is sad, did you know victims of DV are more likely to be killed when they leave?

Did you also know most victims are trapped by not having anywhere to go? Sandi is meant to be Serbian, so probably has immigration issues. whatever it is, it is sad u dont feel sympathy for victims.


As for Rosie and Gary.....they dont beat Hugo, they dont neglect him and engage and spend time and love him. A kid cant ask for more than that. And who says Gary is pessimistic- does a child really need Santa to have a complete childhood?? which case you have disrupted the childhoods of children living on the Asia subcontinent.



Also for dysfunctional parenting here are a few examples- i can attach one/two of these to each family in the Slap including Bilal's and to every family I know, including my own. Which begs to ask- who has the perfect family and is it so wrong to have a dysfunctional one?

Fairpenguin....you might think there isnt a dysfunctional family but very few families will actually let u in and see the cracks beneath the surface, unless you are fully integrated in a family, u will not see the worst of it.



Using (destructively narcissistic parents with rule by fear and conditional love)
Abusing (parents who use physical violence, or emotionally, or sexually abuse their children)
Perfectionist (fixating on order, prestige, power, and/or perfect appearances, while preventing their child from failing at anything)
Dogmatic or cult-like (harsh and inflexible discipline with children not allowed, within reason, to dissent, question authority, or develop their own value system)
Inequitable parenting (going to extremes for one child while continually ignoring the needs of another)
Deprivation (control or neglect by withholding love, support, necessities, sympathy, praise, attention, encouragement, supervision, or otherwise putting their children's well-being at risk)
Abandonment (a parent who willfully separates from their children, not wishing any further contact, and in some cases without locating alternative, long-term parenting arrangements, leaving them as orphans)
Appeasement (parents who reward bad behavior—even by their own standards—and inevitability punish another child's good behavior in order to maintain the peace and avoid temper tantrums "Peace at any price")
Loyalty manipulation (giving unearned rewards and lavish attention trying to ensure a favored, yet rebellious child will be the one most loyal and well-behaved, while subtly ignoring the wants and needs of their most loyal child currently)
"Helicopter parenting" (parents who micro-manage their children's lives and/or relationships among siblings—especially minor conflicts)
"The deceivers" (well-regarded parents in the community, likely to be involved in some charitable/non-profit works, who abuse or mistreat one or more of their children)
"Public image manager" (sometimes related to above, children warned to not disclose what fights, abuse, or damage happens at home, or face severe punishment "Don't tell anyone what goes on in this family")
"The paranoid parent" (a parent having persistent and irrational fear accompanied by anger and false accusations that their child is up to no good or others are plotting harm)
"No friends allowed" (parents discourage, prohibit, or interfere with their child from making friends of the same age and gender)
Role reversal (parents who expect their minor children to take care of them instead)
"Not your business" (children continuously told that a particular brother or sister who is often causing problems is none of their concern)
Ultra-egalitarianism (either a much younger child is permitted to do whatever an older child may, or an older child must wait years until a younger child is mature enough)
"The guard dog" (a parent who blindly attacks family members perceived as causing the slightest upset to their esteemed spouse, partner, or child)
"My baby forever" (a parent who will not allow one or more of their young children to grow up and begin taking care of themselves)
"The cheerleader" (one parent "cheers on" the other parent who is abusing their child)
"Along for the ride" (a reluctant de facto, step, foster, or adoptive parent who does not truly care about their non-biological child, but must co-exist in the same home for the sake of their spouse or partner) See also: Cinderella effect
"The politician" (a parent who repeatedly makes or agrees to children's promises while having little to no intention of keeping them)
"It's taboo" (parents rebuff any questions children may have about sexuality, pregnancy, romance, puberty, certain areas of human anatomy, nudity, etc.)
"The identified patient" (one child, usually selected by the mother, who is forced into going to therapy while the family's overall dysfunction is kept hidden)
Münchausen syndrome by proxy (a much more extreme situation than above, where the child is intentionally made ill by a parent seeking attention from physicians and other professionals)





reply

What book did you get all those definitions from?

Sandi is meant to be Serbian, so probably has immigration issues.

This is a ridiculous and rather ignorant statement. You don't think she came in on the last boat by people smugglers do you? She has no trace of an accent so was most likely born in Australia or emigrated as a small child. What immigration issues would she have? do you think she's overstayed her visa by how long, well over 10 years. She's been married to Harry for at least that long, how old is her son?. What gives us any indication that she is worried about immigration? She would be no different then any of the other 'children of immigrants' in the story. And what about her family? do you think she hasn't got any because they're aren't shown? is it stated that she's an orphan? Couldn't she go to them for help? Besides 'immigration issues' wouldn't make any difference if she stayed with Harry or divorced him.
I definitely agree she should have left him after such a beating, even if they worked things out later, only because, he did say it happened just the once.

reply

[deleted]

[deleted]

[deleted]

It's hard to judge Rosie by normal standards because she is clearly insane.

reply

she is as normal as any wife/mother/woman....sure she has flaws, hasnt everyone?

reply