Pride is a sin - Waar (2013) Discussion

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] polokill 10 years ago

I know that urdu is the mother tongue. I am a Pakistani. Its not just patriotism, its blind patriotism. They are making a movie showing Pakistan and how its facing its current problems but wouldn't the people want to hear their mother tongue. I'm not calling anyone inferior, I don't even know how you came to the conclusion, but I would've liked it more if it was in the language I grew up in. People are loving this film out of sheer patriotism and not watching or criticizing it as serious viewers. I would like people to not lose their *beep* for the first highly commercial film. I don't really understand why you're calling me presumptuous. Did I say anything that was wrong? Was I not sounding my opinion? The whole pride is a sin thing was just me being clever. Something to attract the people. Nothing more.

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[–] uzidon 10 years ago

I think you're quite right when you say that people would want to hear their mother tongue in a movie that shows Pakistan and portrays its problems. I do not understand the decision to release it in English either, but I think the producers hoped to release the movie internationally when they started filming. Hence, they wanted it in English originally and dub it in Urdu for later instead of going the other way around.

As for the blind patriotism, I think that claim is valid, but it is also justifiable at the same time. All the hope and patriotism that surrounded the movie even before it was released explains it to some extent. Moreover, it has been quite some time since a good Pakistani movie made it to the big screen. I would never have imagined to go to a cinema to see a Pakistani movie a few months ago, but Waar changed that for me, and a significant number of people around me too. I genuinely wanted to see it on the big screen.

The way I take it is that Pakistanis were fed up of all the meaningless, supernatural, anti-Pakistan stuff that is portrayed in Bollywood movies and they are just happy to see that Pakistani cinema has something to offer too. I have nothing against Bollywood, and I have watched and loved some of the great movies it had to offer but let's admit it--most of the stuff that comes out of Bollywood these days is substandard. I have not yet seen Waar myself, and I've heard that it's not one of the greatest movies out there but it will not stop me from spending my money to see or own it. You, sir, may call it blind patriotism but I call it the hope for our industry. :)

Bless you, and regards.

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return."

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[–] PingpongTung 10 years ago

Pride is a sin

So is watching movies.

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[–] raakh89 10 years ago

watching movies is a sin... seriously ?

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[–] chaos64-190-419770 9 years ago

Of course, KSA and Gaza's Hamas forbids cinema! Aren't they Muslim?

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[–] raakh89 10 years ago

Every film has flaws,name a film which doesn't have flaws in it.every actor worked hard in the film,the dialogue delivery was very good,name the actor who was trying to act.The film was made in English for the international market where they don't understand Urdu at all.The film being such a success is the work of nature and talking about exceeding Bollywood with just one film.well Bollywood's
commercial films are mostly crap.Waar surpassed the money earned by Chennai express on the first day of Eid.To take pride in something good is not a sin,its a sin if you have done something wrong and being proud of it.Being proud of a film like WAAR is not a sin.

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[–] polokill 10 years ago

I believe subtitles or dubbing isn't really difficult to do if it was for the international market. Of course every movie has flaws but people seem to act like this movie doesn't. Blind patriotism is all there is. I'm not saying that the people shouldn't be proud of this film but not be overly proud of it. Criticize it, point out its flaws so we can move forward and make better films. If people feel too much pride for it then many young filmmakers might not be motivated enough to make a better film. And my title was just me being clever :p so don't take the whole sin thing seriously.

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[–] Sodominion 10 years ago

In my opinion people are so blinded by their ideals, beliefs and patriotism that they cannot see the obvious flaws in the movie. Their judgement seems to be clouded. The acting, dialog and characters are horrible in this movie. The english is horrible as well...the accents are all over the place. Way to revive the pakistani cinema...just sell your souls, like all the politicians we blame, and take the safest short cut to popularity. Besides this what was the point of making the movie in english. Just for the sake of reaching a wider audience when it could have set a standard for pakistani cinema..one that would have it's own essence. I believe the acting and dialog could have been much better if the movie was in urdu. I think I can safely say that the best movies from a country are in their own language. People defending this are probably the same ones who complain about our presidents and politicians wearing suits and talking in english and then are impressed by the politicians from other places who choose not to westernize themselves. It's either that or the people voting this really high don't really watch movies.

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[–] raakh89 10 years ago

If films like avatar and world warz can be a huge success so can WAAR be

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[–] raakh89 10 years ago

Let the film breathe.people are not blinded by their ideals,we are the last nation in this world to be patriotic about something.we are very much patriotic abut India that I can say but not about Pakistan.we need patriotism,tons and tons of it and there is nothing wrong in being patriotic for the first time for a Pakistani film.talking about the English accent oh please have you ever heard an Indian accent.this is how these actors talk in real life,they are not faking it.The film is not about accents its about the involvement of raw and mossad in Pakistan's politics,funding terrorism in Pakistan and what the people of our country going through because of this terrorism.BILAL LASHARI himself said that that the film is low on dialogues and high on action sequences but personally i think the some dialogues were really good check out the quotes from the the film.if you have invested this much money in a film and you want screen that movie in pakistan where people don't make an effort to go to cinema then you have to ensure that the money comes back to you and with our patriotic cinema owners who are more interested in showing BULLET RAJA ,RAM LEELA, AND KRISH 8.you are very much right about the films being in Urdu language and reaching a wider audience.people who are rating it high do watch films it's just that WAAR is in the air.it's AIRBORNE.

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[–] raakh89 10 years ago

The film should've been dubbed in Urdu for the people in Pakistan who doesn't understand English but it was the filmmaker's choice that he wanted to make the film in English language whatever his reasons were.There were many Pakistani films in the past that Pakistani audience should've been proud of but they didn't even care to watch those films,finally there is a film that clicked with the audience so well that Pakistanis are just excited,it's not blind patriotism.The film also shows the problems which Pakistanis are facing because of terrorism from India and Israel and no one talks about it so openly like WAAR did.The thing about WAAR is it's right on your face,it's not an intellectual film nor its trying to be.Talking about the flaws of the film trust me the filmmakers are pretty much aware of it.We have always made good films the quantity could be less but the basic problem is marketing,we have no idea how to market a film or we don't want to spend so much money on it or we don't have that much money to spend on it.The producer of the film told in a talk show that he has to sell his house and car because of the movie's budget.Young filmmakers are so impressed from Hollywood or Bollywood that I heard there is film being made on zombies.... seriously ? why can't we make a film on bhoot or churail ?there is also a film coming with a title Kambakht and they are not old filmmakers these are new ones who study film making from abroad or I don't know where.And yes the whole sin thing was a good trick.

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[–] Sodominion 10 years ago

@ raakh89

Waar is a straight up action movie. Nothing deep about it...you scratch the surface and there is it. In that sense it doesn't deserve a rating of 7 or 8. Or even a 6. The rating proves that blind patriotism sells. And the OP wasn't talking about pride as a sin in literal...more like pride is a flaw. I don't get why people are proud of this...none of you had anything to do with it's production or anything like that. Pride should be reserved for things that you actually worked to achieve. It's like being proud of having two hands or being born male. You had nothing to do with these things..you were born with it. There's nothing you did to become a pakistani...you were simply born here. People here just don't understand this because that is what blind patriotism leads to. People here just love to be patriotic but most people here wouldn't even pay their bills or taxes if they had their own way or do anything to improve their country. But they sure as hell are patriotic about a goddamn cricket match and this is exactly case here.
I actually worked on it, my name didn't appear because I left that studio on bad terms and in between projects, but quite a few of my friends have their name in the movie. We actually have something to be proud of...even if not the movie as a whole but the vfx work.
Speaking for the language it just a cheap trick. You take the best films of any region and 9 out of 10 times they would be in their native tongue. And mostly because they are comfortable with their language. In Waar these flaws are obvious...the accents are all over the place and dialogs, due to the language problem, and it's delivery are terrible. Rather than blindly giving it a 8 or because it's a pro-pakistani movie you should acknowledge these flaws and re-evaluate your rating.
The only 3 things working for the movie that could be measured up to international standards are the cinematography, camera work and some of the visual effects. I'm not saying that the vfx are great because I was part of that team but mainly because the director knew how to pull it off. He shot the movie quite well and had a vision on how it would look like after vfx and post-production. Not many people here know how to do that..hell even those b-grade hollywood directors have so many flaws in their shoots that doubles the work load. But Waar's workflow was quite professional and seamless due to well-planned shooting. These are the only things I can praise about the movie but unfortunately these things couldn't save the movie.
Also since the movie is funded by the military automatically the military and police are bravest and most honorable people here. Totally one dimensional do-gooder characters. Like cardboard cut outs. We are not living in the 80s anymore...I want rich multidimensional characters. The character if Shaan is kind of multidimensional but is goddamn cliched that I had to cringe in most of his scenes. It's probably the most cringe-worthy movie I have seen on the big screen. The movie is a military/police propaganda and it couldn't be more obvious.
If this movie was a 6 then I probably wouldn't even bother with these many posts but a 9 is absurd. This is just biased voting. The same reason why movies with a liberal theme always snatch the oscar.

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[–] raakh89 10 years ago

WAAR is a straight up action film with a deep message in it by the filmmakers or the military it does not matter as long as it's telling the truth and that's what irritating the Indians.As far as ratings are concerned,there are so many Hollywood films which are considered epics that are nothing but propaganda films.in fact every Hollywood film has a anti god message in it,why is a film like zero dark thirty considered great when there is nothing but lies in it.the film has a rating of 7.4.Why should pride be reserved for something that one person or a team achieved?don't you feel proud as a Pakistani that a Pakistani film has been so successful and every one is praising it and talking about it.if you love your country then at least you will be proud on the the good things happening here.if you are born a Muslim and a Pakistani you should be proud of that Allah has chosen you to be born in this great country,the part about not doing anything for the country depends upon how you lead your life.Have you seen American films where they make fun of their prophet and their religion?Name a Pakistani film which has made fun of our religion or our prophet[P.B.U.H]. people don't pay their taxes if the are not forced to,very right about that but they are the same people who give millions to EDHI foundation,the reason is people don't trust the government institutions.I said it in my earlier post we are not a patriotic nation we need to be.don't American and Indian armed forces fund their films?don't they show in films how the brave American army is fighting the afghan mujaheddin in Afghanistan?the was cliched you are very right about that but the dialogues were good.

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[–] Sodominion 10 years ago

There is no deep message. A straight up action movie by definition doesn't have a deep message. It would defeat the purpose of it being a straight up action movie. As for the obvious message it pretty much says that our military and police are all extremely honorable, brave, dedicated and decent and would do anything for their country and fellow country men. This is so far fetched that it sounds like a parody. And the ones to blame are india, israel or any other external force. This is as shallow as it gets. The movie is very black and white. Zero Dark Thirty, even though it was a propaganda piece, was an above average movie imo...it had decent acting/characters and the chase was well done. And that's my main issue with Waar...I could have lived with the propaganda if it had been toned down and basics (acting, dialog, storytelling etc etc) was done in a better way. Seriously I have seen more expressive and emotional acting in in-game cinematics. Khuda Kay Liay and Bol could very well be considered pakistani liberal propaganda but they aren't black and white and they got the basics right. As right as they could get it. Anyways I think I expressed by dislike for straight up propaganda pieces when I said how movies with liberal themes have a higher chance of winning an oscar. The oscars are mostly about the politics.

As for pride I reserve it for things I had to work for in order to achieve. And not being proud of something some random pakistani did. I had nothing to do with your achievements so why should I be proud of you. However I can be happy for you. Being proud like that clouds your judgement. You're not rating things based on merit. And oh I'm an atheist so I can't really sympathize with your views on religion. I believe if you put something out in the open it's fair game for anyone to criticize or make fun of it. If I put my personal problems out in the open and complain if people make fun of it then I'm just being narrow minded. I would be pissed off but at the end of the day I would blame myself for disclosing my personal issues to the world.

The majority of the people in country live pseudo patriotic lives. If they were truly patriotic they would be decent citizens first. I get that people don't trust the government which is good because anyone with so much authority shouldn't be trusted in the first place..power corrupts. But that's so not the reason for stealing taxes. How about not breaking the traffic laws or stealing electricity. However people are charitable here but that's mostly because it's a compulsion in islam in order to get a place in heaven. If it wasn't for that then I highly doubt people would be doing anything for welfare.

I'm in no way trying to say that I'm an patriotic upstanding citizen wwithout any flaws. In fact I'm the opposite. I'm a very nonconformist and iconoclastic person with anarchist tendencies. However I will point the flaws in our society.

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[–] raakh89 10 years ago

Our military is extremely honorable,brave and dedicated and there is no doubt about that.It has to suffer a lot because of our soulless,heartless and corrupt politicians and bureaucrats stupid decision or you can say deliberate decisions which are never in favor of our country.If anything that's keeping Pakistan together is ALLAH and our armed forces.If you want to see the involvement of India in destabilizing pakistan just watch the show KHARA SUCH anchored by mubashir luqman or you can always switch to Geo/Jew TV.India and Israel are conspiring against Pakistan since the day it was created.If i had to watch ZDT in a theatre i would have been bored to death or laughed to death but with WAAR the case was different not because they were telling the truth but because it was entertaining.The thing with cinema is that even if you are watching a bad film you somehow don't feel how bad it is,maybe because of the screen and the sound system.WAAR is an entertaining film that's why its be liked by everyone.as far as acting is concerned i have seen tom cruise and robert de niro doing the same stuff for the past i don't how many years,RDN always have that irritating look on his face whether he is doing comedy or an action film.KKL and Bol were directed by shoib mansoor so you can't expect bilal to make a film like KKL in his first directorial venture.

its not necessary that you have to be a part of somebody's achievement only then you can feel proud of that person or institution its just inbuilt to love your country and being proud of it.it's not a fair game to make fun of somebody's religion,the Hollywood films do it for a reason.religion is everybody's personal matter so nobody has any right to make fun of it,that's what religion teaches you that one shouldn't make a mockery of others personal belief.

how many people do you see breaking the traffic laws one or two at a time and how many do you see waiting for the green light.there are a lot of compulsions in Islam but people don't apply them in their lives.people give money to charitable organizations not because its compulsory but for the love of ALLAH and for those who are in need of it.yes there are many people who are doing it for a place in heaven but there are many who are doing it just for the love of ALLAH.In Islam there is a certain percentage that you need to give but many people give more money than they are required to.

nobody says that she/he is a patriotic citizen without any flaws,it's the actions of that person that decides who she/he really is.If you have love for your country in your heart then you automatically become a patriot.For the last part of your post i had to check the dictionary.i know my opinion wouldn't matter to you but you need to loose all those tendencies that you mentioned above.

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[–] nimstic 10 years ago

You make a lot of sense, Sodominion and I have to admit (assuming you're a Pakistani) your view is quite rare to find! Respect.

I was curious when I saw such high rating for this movie but then the movie was quite average. I mean, I am happy to see a revival in Pakistani cinema but agree it could absolutely have been in Urdu! The accent was very lame, much like many other technical aspects of this film!! and there was absolutely no substance in the story. It was all about nudging certain brain junctions (e.g. anti-india sentiment) most of us know some Pakistanis have.

I also don't understand why is everyone comparing this movie to Bollywood movies as an answer from Pakistan? Not that Bollywood movies these days are any good (barring a few ones)but such a tendancy to compare sounds like a lot of Pakistanis are interested in making a statement than appreciating its own ability to make films.

Pakistan already has a good music scene, and i am sure time will come when they'd make good movies. No point in comparing itself with Bollywood.. i think it should be able to create its own brand of movies- just my POV!

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[–] kka_king 10 years ago

Bla bla bla bla bla ...... he is right it shuld be in Urdu .... but they just follow the trend the hell with their language or whatsoever

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[–] kka_king 10 years ago

And the main reason behind making this movie in english was that this movie is supposed to be launched globally so they had to use english instead of urdu......

They could hav dubbed it in english as well but its true they preffered to make it in english rather than dubbing it in english...

Bla bla bla no need to go in details just watch the movie and enjoy

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[–] Alisama 10 years ago

Guys, on the subject of Urdu vs English, all I can say is that we loved it in UK. Most of our young Pakistani generations in this country normally read subtitles during Urdu/ Hindi films but this was a mixture of both and made it easy to understand for a lot of Pakistanis in Europe. Not sure if you know this but English is now widely spoken in cities of Pakistan. All intelligence and army training is also in English and these officials mostly speak in English so what's the problem? Pakistani films have been poor in recent years but this is a breath of fresh air so admire it and be proud that something good came out from our people instead of being so negative. This film is good with good lessons and a lot better than some of Bollywood crap.

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[–] zeeshanabid 10 years ago

For me it's a poor movie. And yes, the usage of so much English and the selection of poor dialogues actually messed it up greatly. The acting fell down miserably (kindly note that there were some good actors involved). It's far from being a good movie.

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