MovieChat Forums > Project Nim (2011) Discussion > Nim's issues with females?

Nim's issues with females?


It seemed like Nim was very aggressive towards his female keepers. In contrast, aside from the very first guy (husband of the first keeper/mom) whom Nim was rebellious to, neither Herb or future male friends seemed to have their faces ripped out or get fatally injured even when they abandoned him. This was rather odd to me. He being a male, I expected more aggression towards the males.

P.S. I'm sure I'm not the only one who wished Herb would get bitten by Nim while watching the documentary...can't even believe he participated in the documentary with all the ethical issues involved (sex with students anyone?)...

reply

It seemed like Nim was very aggressive towards his female keepers. In contrast, aside from the very first guy (husband of the first keeper/mom) whom Nim was rebellious to, neither Herb or future male friends seemed to have their faces ripped out or get fatally injured even when they abandoned him. This was rather odd to me. He being a male, I expected more aggression towards the males.


I'm not a zoologist (I only studied human psychology!), but I got the impression that Nim, in his own way, became more attached to his female keepers/teachers, and therefore felt more emotionally betrayed by them. I was also left with the feeling, especially after his vicious response to Ms. LaFarge's long overdue visit (which, as they said, could have easily caused her death, but Nim actively chose not to), that he'd probably kill most of the males in his life (except maybe Bob), but only injured the female humans - and often said "sorry" once he had - because it was in his nature to do so in order to make a point. Maybe the human males were better at asserting dominance, too, thus not opening themselves up for as much of a challenge.

I could be way off base, and someone with more veterinary experience could weigh in with something more insightful, but those were my thoughts as I watched.

P.S. I'm sure I'm not the only one who wished Herb would get bitten by Nim while watching the documentary...can't even believe he participated in the documentary with all the ethical issues involved (sex with students anyone?)...


Couldn't agree with you more there, on all counts! I didn't especially dislike him because of his relationship with students, but it sort of speaks to his arrogance that he'd be so candid and unapologetic on camera about how he treated/disposed of the girls one by one. Of course, we could already tell how wretchedly arrogant and ignorant he was simply by the fact that he thought this whole experiment was a good idea in the first place. "Hmm, let's take yet another infant chimp away from its mother and send him to live with a family full of kids in a Manhattan brownstone!" Uh...okay? I guess that proves once and for all that "educated" does not necessarily equal "intelligent."

I really do wish Nim had taken a chunk out of him. Even just a little one. I'm not normally a sadist, but that would've given me some satisfaction, because Herb was far and away the cruelest person in Nim's life. The scene where he shows up a year later to a photo op at the primate institute, and how happy Nim is while believing he's "going home"...that just broke my heart. Herb never got what was coming to him.




~ http://prettyh.blogspot.com/ ~

reply

Yes, Nim came walking up the path and when he saw Herb sitting there the excitement he showed, the excited shrieks "his friend" someone who was there in the beginning. Now things were familiar, he really was overjoyed. But how did Nim feel at the end of the meeting when Herb went one way and Nim was left behind. So......heartrending. How could Herb do that to anyone? Bob was definitely a good friend and the best thing to happen to Nim.

==============================
He lifts me clear to the sky, you know he taught me to fly.

reply

I have to agree with your assessment of Herb. He has a complete prat who seemed to run the project with no thought for Nim and little for his human assistants.

reply

He was a lucky guy. Laura was a hottie

http://www.obiectivdesuceava.ro/v2/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/maimut-0.jpg

reply

Wrong guy, that's Bill.

QUOTE: Time can be generous but ultimately time is indifferent.

reply

I think some of us here are trying to project human feelings, attitudes, and motivations onto the chimpanzee, perhaps as badly as some of the people in the film did. We may be right now and again, but I suspect we're wrong just as often. We just don't know. Remember what the female handler who was bitten on the arm multiple times, had so many stitches and was hospitalized said? He attacked if she got up too quickly or turned her back on him. Think about that. It had nothing to do with his feelings for one person rather than another, his competition with males, gratitude toward females, etc., etc. It didn't happen out of the "personal relationships" we all want to believe existed between the chimp and the people. Those personal relationships may have been largely, if not wholly, projected onto the situation out of our own needs and our own habits of interpreting what goes on between people. But this was a wild animal, and we have only the dimmest notions of how their minds operate.

reply

Ha yes. Every chimp kept as a pet behaves much like nim did. He was used for experimentation by a scholar of the time.

reply

You have a fair point that there was probably some projection going on, especially with how everyone involved *wanted* him to be intelligent enough to speak signlanguage.

However, i also think it is wrong how behavior-scientists are now classifying *everything* as projection. Like, they will insist 'no, a dog does not actually feel remorse, it just mimicks humans who feel remorse because it gives him rewards from these humans'. But i believe that is no different from humans: experiments and research into secluded tribes show that our own emotions are *also* for a large part a learned response and definitely not the universal constant that sociologists have long seen them as. (a misunderstanding that has let to bad situations and unfounded accusations, mainly when it puts migrants at a huge risk of being acused of child-abuse when their child doesn't properly display the supposedly 'universal behavior')

As to Nim's behavior towards females: an adult chimp male wants to control the whole tribe. Which means punishing both males and females who challenge him.
Contrary to popular believe:
-females don't all authomatically fall in line within the harem, so there is more agressions towards females than one might expect (apes do occasionally rape women)
-once dominance is established men work together within the tribe (instead of chasing away all the inferior males), so there is less agression towards males than one might expect

reply