I got the impression that nothing actually happened between Dan and Matt after they left the gay club in NY; they each spent the night with a girl, albeit in the same bedroom/hotel suite. I think that they finally got together after Matt called on Dan while he was babysitting. What do you think? This means that Cokely's initial accusations were unfounded.
share***SPOILERS***
Yes, the NY hotel scene showed that nothing happened between them at that time.
BUT, if you read the IMDb users reviews, some of them clearly suggest that there was actual sex between them at the NY hotel room, a fact that was supposedly revealed (by Dan??) about 1 hour later into the film -- though I really have no idea where exactly it was mentioned in the film, or how, or by whom, and I'm not about to see the film again to find out. Hell, this is utterly confusing.
What seems to be clear is that the two "girls" were not female. They were actually drag queens, transexuals. And both Dan and Matt had sex with them in full knowledge that they weren't female, after having fun with them at a gay club. Which choices indicate that both boys were more into homosexuality than the film wants us to think.
The thing is that the direction is not clear at all, regarding that NY night. The club is not clearly identified as a gay club, the girls are not clearly identified as trans, and mainly the boys are not shown to have any sexual physical contact at the hotel (which is totally unrealistic and improbable, given their attraction and the circumstances -- both naked and horny on a bed, and crazy for each other, and not touching??? come ON, please, gimme a fvcking break!!). Duh, what do I know, maybe they didn't have sex after all, who the fvck knows??? It's utterly unclear, the direction in this point sucked, if you ask me, since it's left us with such confusion and so many questions. It sucked.
And no, Dan and Matt did not have a chance to meet and have sex after they kissed at Will's house. They clearly did not meet again after their kissing. That was the end for them.
Anyway, all this aside it was a nice film overall, very sad but nice, with some very interesting psychological stuff regarding all people's choices and motives due to their strong career drive. Not a waste of time for me.
Thanks for your reply, LaissezFaire_Aggeliki.
I've seen the film more than once, and certainly didn't hear Dan reveal any details about having sex with Matt in NY.
As incredible as it may seem, I didn't actually notice that the 'girls' were trannies (perhaps because the actors were really females!), but your explanation puts things clearly into perspective (I did realize that the club was a gay meeting place, but lots of hetero chicks hang also out in such places).
Are you sure though that Dan and Matt could not have got together after the scene at Will's house? They were meant to meet up at Dan's place (do you remember that there was beer in the fridge and the key above the door?), and so I just assumed that they 'consumated' their relationship that night, even though the scene was not shown.
In any case, like you I enjoyed the film in spite of the confusing details; the acting was good, the characterisation convincing, and the topic very interesting.
You're welcome, hon :)
I didn't hear Dan reveal any details about sex in NY either, but other viewers claim it was revealed somehow, I don't know by which character or when. I have no clue if this is right.
***MAJOR SPOILERS***
As I remember from my single viewing of the film, Matt and Dan met at Will's house and kissed sometime around noon or sth. Then Matt left with the promise that they'd meet again that same night (at Dan's house, beers and key etc.). So several hours passed, the evening came, and Dan was still at Will's place waiting for Will to come home. But Will was late, and instead of him a military officer arrived in a black car, telling them that Matt and Will were involved in an airplane crash, and Matt died. Do I remember this wrong? Sorry if I do.
So, as I understood this, their relationship was either consumated earlier in NY, or not at all. Which latter would be really really sad. :'(
I agree with you about the film's quality though, and for all those reasons I liked it too! And also because the two boys were a delight to watch, so beautiful... I wish that the NY hotel scene was way more long and explicit, and with loads of sex between the 2 of them AND the "girls", ohmygoddd!! *fanning self* lol
Which girls btw were indeed female actresses, but it was mentioned a few times in the film that the boys were partying with drag queens. And their overall styling was certainly trans and it's also very unlikely that a real woman would take the boy(s) she's hitting on to a gay club of all places.
Bottomline is, that the gay-club/NY-hotel scenes were extremely important for the movie's plot and should be way more clear, long and explicit imho, for more than one reasons ;)
Thanks once again, LaissezFaire_Aggeliki, you're obviously very perceptive and observant since you picked up lots of things that I hadn't noticed (even though I've seen the film 3 times!!).
It's now all very clear to me, except exactly what happened in NY (hence my original post). I can't help feeling (but this is just my hunch) that they didn't actually get it together, otherwise I don't think they would have been so coy in each other's company over the following months. They were still just sort of chatting each other up at Will's birthday party, and I think they each had to get time away from their wives/fiancées first. After the kiss at Will's house, I got the impression that it was 'finally gonna happen', also on the basis of how happy each of them looked.
As you say, if they never really got together, then the film is incredibly sad, especially because Cokely's accusations had no real justification, apart from the fact the Matt and Dan were dancing together at the club. It was that other sailor (I forget his name; the one who Matt was telling off and who later saw Matt and Dan at the club), who started the ball rolling, as he wanted to pay Matt back for humiliating him.
Nice film, however (if you want to see it again you can probably watch it on veehd.com)
Oww thanks, you're sweet! :)
Exactly, the NY night is the only real mystery in this film. Of course you're right, after NY they were awkward, very hesitant to approach each other, until the party where they couldn't help showing their attraction. But this awkwardness doesn't mean they didn't have sex with each other in NY.
If they had sex it was a drunken and dirty one, one they both couldn't take seriously or discuss or consider as something meaningful, one they would be really ashamed of -- much more so since they were both married/engaged to women. Drunken sex in a drag-queen foursome, oh man, it would really make them feel more awkward than before, I think, instead of loosening up.
Like I said before, I think it's very improbable and unlikely that they didn't touch each other at the hotel, both being drunk and naked on a bed, and after all the flirting and shirtless dancing at the gay club -- a hell of a foreplay. I mean, come on, they were crazy for each other, drunk, naked, horny, on a bed. I think it's impossible that they didn't have sex, I honestly can't imagine this.
But the film doesn't show any sex between them, and that's a fact. I guess if they did have sex the film would have showed it somehow, or clearly mentioned it... so maybe they didn't after all... which is surreal... and so sad... oh hell.
Nothing happened between the two of them that night in New York.
shareThinking back to the hotel, Dan caressed Matt's head. I assumed that was a clue that they had a sexual encounter of some nature that night. Their love blossomed after that night so one might expect their love was based on a physical confirmation of their mutual attraction. So yes, they must have messed around a bit that night.
Dan later admitted he blew off his friend to be with Matt that night and that he fell in love with Matt, a love he refused to deny or cover up. That was the main theme of the story, one of love and not just sex.
As far as the two women, yes the characters were really women. D.M.W. Greer referred to them as ladies and gals. They were played by women. They met at a straight bar and then moved on to a mixed bar. It is an interesting idea they might have been trans women, but if true, why not have them played by trans women? So it seems to me there is little basis for that idea they were trans.
Look, we had a drunken night in New York so let's just chalk it up to experience.At 1:01:40, Daniel says this to Matt so it clearly implies that something DID in fact happen. This is the scene where Daniel is babysitting and Matt drops in.