"How do you figure that heaven would be worse than hell?"
Me personally, I don't think Heaven would be worse than Hell. I just meant that within the context of Doom's universe. It's just I'm kind of concerned that Hell might become stale after a while just because it's been used so much and in countless other games, "Doom" especially. I mean, how many times do you spin the old yarn about the nine circles of Hell (which had been explored in the context of "Dante's Inferno" and referenced here but not elaborated on) or show fire and brimstone before players go "Alright, enough!"? In terms of how Heaven could be used, in the Old Testament God was a very vindictive figure, causing plagues, floods and disasters against those who defied him. Since "Doom" is essentially a metal album cover/Todd McFarlane comic on steroids, complete with giant guns, why not go the extra mile and present a somewhat nilhistic vision like in "Spawn", where you have a Heaven who seeks to destroy humanity because all of their religions were wrong, or wished to save a select few but wanted to destroy the rest because of their faith and not on the merit of being "good"?
Or, since the game brought up the possibility of alternate universes, maybe it's an alternate Heaven, one that is darker and different from the very fanciful version that we're all used to?
Another possibility - the Doom Marine becomes corrupted by Hell after destroying it, and with nothing else to destroy, turns his attentions to Heaven itself.
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OLD_ACCOUNT_skribb_Mk2
8 years ago
Yes, I meant within the Doom mythos of course, I am not religious so I wasn't referring to the real concepts of the celestial domains and whatnot.
I'm just trying to understand how heaven could be worse than hell, insofar as heaven supposedly being the place where all good people go after death, and where the angels and god itself resides.
I totally agree that the "portal to hell" thing is a bit overdrawn. Especially with the new Doom where they "siphon energy from Hell" i don't even know wtf that means - but I haven't played the game yet.
I'm not well versed in christianity but even in the Old testament, wasn't heaven a good place to be?
That being said I don't know how accurate Doom's portrayal of christianity is, so I suppose they could take liberties with depicting heaven. For me personally I would need some kind of exposition to describe to the player why heaven is actually a crappy place.
The Spawn version could work. Or an alternative to your other suggestion, instead of the Marine being corrupted by hell, the actual destruction of hell could cause an imbalance in the universe since there is no longer any "evil" and no place for sinners to be banished to.... leaving heaven to become corrupted by the overflowing evil. Or something. With the bottom line being that there always needs to be a balance between dark and light.
Perhaps the vindictive god is actually dissatisfied with the destruction of hell (maybe for the reasons above) and turns earth into chaos which essentially becomes a new Hell. A good writer would be able to make something of this :)
I would be content if they had a general Abrahamic concept of heaven and hell so that they could take liberties as they see fit but still keep it within the western/abrahamic traditional concepts of the afterlife. That way there wouldn't have to be any mention of Jesus' influence on humanity or the veracity of any given prophet, denomination or schism.
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evolution_500_2
8 years ago
I know that one version of Heaven, the Norse equivalent Valhalla, is more based around the notions of war than anything that has to do with the virtues valued within Christianity and Judaism, which are more based around being "good". So, the Doomslayer could go up against something like that.
I just had a thought - a "Doom" game where you play from the perspective of an angel/one of Heaven's enforcers. The antagonist - the Doom Marine. You know how in video games there's the age-old trope of the lone underdog vs the many, of the lone individual overcoming all odds, gaining new abilities and weapons with each foe and level defeated? Imagine something that is a complete reversal of that, with the "hero" - the type of character that players usually play - being the destroyer, and the many being what you the player control, and rather than gain new abilities, you actually find yourself on the losing end; the antagonist cannot be destroyed/killed/defeated, but you can slow him down through careful resource management, which may guarantee you a victory of sorts if done right, but could result in losing certain weapons/abilities. At the same time, though, to give the player a sense of loss, you play from the perspective of those you send out to their deaths.
Is there a game like this? What do you think?
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OLD_ACCOUNT_skribb_Mk2
8 years ago
I stopped being updated on video games years ago so I'm not sure if there are any games from like 07 onwards that match your criteria.
I assume Dungeoun Keeper and Overlord are pretty far off from what you're describing but maybe it has some of those qualities.
If you have patience you can peruse MobyGames and Gamespot, they have pretty decent video game search engines. OR hell, maybe even IMDB http://www.imdb.com/search/title
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evolution_500_2
8 years ago
"I stopped being updated on video games years ago so I'm not sure if there are any games from like 07 onwards that match your criteria."
07? What's that?
"I assume Dungeoun Keeper and Overlord are pretty far off from what you're describing but maybe it has some of those qualities."
Never played "Dungeon Keeper". "Overlord" was a really cool game, but not exactly what I had in mind (plus, it had the progression system that I was talking about).
Have you ever heard of the game "Spec Ops: the Line"? It's an FPS but it's designed as the antithesis to "Call of Duty", with really dark, morally gray decisions and scenarios. I think it would be cool if there could be a game, be it a future "Doom" or something else, that does something similar, only to have the standard FPS hero as the singular, all-powerful antagonist and a regression system as opposed to a progression system that's usually common in games.
"If you have patience you can peruse MobyGames and Gamespot, they have pretty decent video game search engines. OR hell, maybe even IMDB http://www.imdb.com/search/title";
I've been looking around, but as far as I can tell no such game exists that has such a scenario. Thanks for the suggestions, though.
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OLD_ACCOUNT_skribb_Mk2
8 years ago
07 means 2007.
I've heard of Spec Ops but never played it. It really is interesting what you say aobut "regression system", because most games are of course built with the intent to be "won". Not counting Tale of Tales' games and other art games!
So do you mean that there would be an inevitable loss in the game?
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evolution_500_2
8 years ago
"07 means 2007."
Ah, I see.
"I've heard of Spec Ops but never played it. It really is interesting what you say aobut "regression system", because most games are of course built with the intent to be "won". Not counting Tale of Tales' games and other art games!
So do you mean that there would be an inevitable loss in the game?"
Mostly. I mean, I imagine that there is a way to "beat" the game, but there would be a severe cost, making the question of whether or not the player has "won" made dubious.
In terms of a regression system, the thing with most games, shooters especially, is that they all play with the same tropes - you start off with a pistol, then move on to a shotgun, then a machine gun, etc before putting hands on the most powerful weapon in the game. In a horror game, that kind of takes away from the horror experience, because now the player is completely empowered. I can see two possible benefits for a regression system:
1) it makes players more thoughtful when it comes resource management,
2) it adds to the horror element - that feeling of powerlessness, especially in the face of an all-powerful enemy that keeps getting stronger,
3) it would (in theory) promote skill.
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OLD_ACCOUNT_skribb_Mk2
8 years ago
Sounds like you should be the director for a game. Game mechanics (is that the right term?) definitely need to be explored further :)
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evolution_500_2
8 years ago
"Game mechanics (is that the right term?) definitely need to be explored further :)"
It's definitely game mechanics. I'm glad you like the idea! :)
Speaking of which, would you want to have those demon possession elements from the multiplayer in a future "Doom" campaign? I've always loved the idea of taking control one of Hell's denizens, especially a Cyberdemon.
Any thoughts on other possible weapons?
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OLD_ACCOUNT_skribb_Mk2
8 years ago
I haven't played the new doom so I dunno, but some kind of badass bow or crossbow 😎
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