MovieChat Forums > Rudderless (2015) Discussion > SPOILER Any Theories on Josh's illness a...

SPOILER Any Theories on Josh's illness and motive?


I didn't get it at the beginning, like some other people did, that Josh was a killer...It was quite a shocker when I realized, and I didn't like it.

It dosen't make much sense to me that someone with that passion for songwriting do those horrific things.

In any other circumstances I would say that the kid was a sociopath/psychopath, but those songs just do not come from the mind of an psychopath.

Please share your thoughts..


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He could very well have had a mental illness -- manic depressive, perhaps. Extremely creative people often do also suffer from depressive tendencies. Or he could have been bullied and/or have had a very difficult time adjusting to the weird social norms prevalent on every college campus. This part wasn't explained and left me wondering, but I didn't need it to enjoy/get a lot out of the story.

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Yeah that annoyed me too. Short of multiple personality disorder I don't really see how he could go from Banner to Hulk in such a short time.

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You must live to find love
And you’ll try many times
But your heart is still young
And the true love you’ll find

You think for true love
Your first love of life
But the time will come
When the feeling will pass

Act like a leaf on a windy day
pass like the clouds after rain
so brush away every tiny tear

your love will shine again
no more cryin
always think of tomorrow
one day you’ll look back and be glad for the sorrow

oh so yes your life has just begun
you’ll find yourself another man
so brush away all those tiny tears

your love will shine again
don’t cry don’t cry
always think of morrow
one day you’ll look back
and be glad for the sorrow
and gain strength from the sorrow
if you don’t think of tomorrow

don’t think of tomorrow
don’t think of yesterday
the past is just an illusion
the future is mass confusion
now is all that’s real

you bring the past out
but be in the present
if you look at it now
thru all of your confusion
thru all your confusion you see an illusion
the future is a dream
the future is never what you may seem
it’s a dream it doesn’t seem like it should seem to be rather than be
seem to be rather than be


True Love Will Find You
written by Charles Manson

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Actually, I'd shared your reaction, if this movie had been made before Elliott Rodger. Unfortunately, like life imitating art, both were in 2014. My guess would be a schizoaffective disorder with manic episodes. First, and foremost, I treat this movie as the father's coping with loss, and potential full reintegration into society. Therefore Josh is the motivator, not the focus of attention.

To the extent we can give him focus, it wasn't hidden, that he had serious issues. Mere seconds before Sam learns about the shooting, he calls his phone, visibly upset about being set up, and how that's not a nice thing to do, hinting that wasn't the first time Josh wasn't a social butterfly, to put it politely. But, here's the thing, there's no problem with being a recluse if you mind your own business. Josh wasn't a simple recluse, he both ignored the world, and was also punishing it, for not hitting it big, not being recognized the great artist he saw himself. We are meaning to see his creation through his father who changed lyrics to make his work more acceptable. He lacked the patience an empathy. We are also possibly meant to address the issue, how certain cultures view psychoactive drugs as a conspiracy tool, them causing the condition, not treating it, and how mental illnesses don't exist, just excuses for big pharma to bleed people dry, which leads many people to go cold turkey from their medication. Other similar topics addressed the responsibility of parents, yet the case of Rodger speaks volumes, they did try everything legally possible, before his murders, cops were called, he was in psychiatric care, yet he convinced them to go away as no danger was present (presumably he'd have killed his parents as well later). The guy he first killed complained about his noise level (like here in the movie), and only waited out the semester to move out. Not even his YouTube videos had raised any flags, despite in some of them he foreshadowed, what he will do.

Even worse, in some circles, like the one Christopher Mercer came from, he is revered as a saint.

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Elliot Rodgers reasons were nothing more than violent entitled misogyny. He felt women owed him something and that's why he wanted to kill them. Josh on the other had shouldn't be compared to that.

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Mental illness and artistic genius are not mutually exclusive. In fact, they often go together. My take is it was suicide by cop. People that don't have the nerve to pull the trigger on themselves do this.

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I feel about the same way you did, I didn't like that Josh was the killer, I thought the story just "jumped" to another level or chapter and gave you no explanation of why. Made no sense, then, does not explain anything, which I think is a huge story within itself. So I feel this movie never had closure for me, which I hate because I feel now, the movie never really ended. Anyway, that is my take, and I get he could have been manic/depress, and etc., but that is just a guess, the story NEVER indicates this.

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The twist was necessary for the audience to care about the characters. A lot of people would react to the parents like it was their fault.

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I think that was the point. Perhaps the most significant one of the film. That sometimes very bad or very sick (or both) people can still have created beauty, or even some goodness, in their lives. It's the contradiction, one might even say the paradox at the very heart of the film. Everything and everyone (including extreme instances like Josh must have been) is not just black or white, but more over, sometimes things and people *can* be black (even very black) AND white, at least to some extent.

Oh and yeah, I wondered early in the film if Josh could have been the shooter. I think primarily based on how the media was perusing Sam early on the film, and particularly something about one scene when one of the reporters said "Here he comes".


But what do I know. I'm just a girl.

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