Or maybe it's the director's fault but she came off as a heartless witch maniac & rigid Christian right wing nut. She had no heart. This movie literally gave me nightmares when I saw it as a kid.
I think I am taking all of this rather well.
She's my favorite thing in the movie. She really seemed like a Depression era mother.
"What do you want me to do, draw a picture? Spell it out!"
She had two disturbing scenes with John-Boy. Both displayed a needlessly hostile attitude. I understand we are supposed to accept that she was worried about John, but that doesn't truly excuse her hostility.
First was when she demanded to know why he kept locking the door to his room. She asked, "Are you smoking cigarettes in here?"--since nobody smoked, he would have been an idiot to think he could smoke inside the house and not have the smell make it obvious.
Later, after the Baldwin ladies and the preacher returned him home, as soon as he returned and told her who it was that brought him home, she yelled at him for "joyriding" with them instead of doing what she sent him to do. Then he explained and she calmed down.
Then she saw something in his hand and when he said it was a gift from the Baldwins, she again screamed at him for bringing bootleg liquor into her house and demanded he go outside and pour it on the ground. He explained it was just eggnog, not the "recipe."
Another scene with Neal also troubled me: When John did come home, he looked across the room at her. She wasn't moving toward him at all. She just stared at him, without the trace of a smile on her face. For someone worried about her husband having been in an accident, as she was, on finding out he's alive and well, that reaction just didn't seem right in any way.
I need to add that she had some good scenes, but the above ones keep me from liking the way she played Olivia. She was much too loud, too negative with her children, and not nearly as likeable as Michael Learned.
Didn't see that were two threads with this topic.
I agree that she did a great job portraying a Depression Era Mom raising a family in a very economically distressed and Christian region.
She was angry about the whiskey because alcoholism was to people then was like meth is to people now. It destroyed lives, tore apart families. Churches were very fundamentalist because they were the heart and souls of these mountain settlements, leading people at a time when many might be tempted to abuse alcohol and give up the struggles. Neill portrayed this mother accurately, leading her family and raising children according to the beliefs she had faith in.
I found her reaction to John's arrival as a combination of shock and shame. Shock because she had been worrying so much that she was in a state of grief when he walked in the door. It was like a ghost walked in. I think she was ashamed too because she had lost her faith during the night. She didn't want to go to the barn and hear the story of the Christmas miracle, she told Grandpa not to ring the bells...
I think these little details are what elevates this film above the usual Lifetime holiday movies.
"Privacy" as we know it, is a fairly recent thing. Children usually only went to their rooms to sleep. Plus John-Boy was an adolescent boy. It may be Olivia was afraid he was smoking (as she asked him) or, even worse, masturbating. Back in those days many people still thought that caused mental illness.
In the book, the father indeed smokes (pretty much 99% of men smoked back then), so there would have been a cigarette smoke smell in the house. If John-Boy had the window open, it might not have been so noticeable. I really don't think she thought he was smoking, though.
The scenes after the sleigh ride I attribute to stress. Remember, there were no interstates, no Dunkin Donuts open all night, etc. John was on DARK ROADS trying to hitchhike. Anything could have happened to him. If he stopped for a drink (a very popular way of "warming yourself up" back in the 1930s before going out into the cold) he might have been shot in a barroom brawl. He could have been hit by a car, beaten and robbed of his paycheck, anything. Muggings are not a new thing!
The younger people on this board were not brought up with older parents the way I was. Parents shouted and yelled at their kids. When I talk about my childhood and mention this, people are horrified and some say I was abused. Far from it. It's just the way older parents were back then. Yes, some parents like this WERE abusive. We felt sorry for their children. Our parents yelled at us, but they loved us. They worked long hours at terrible jobs to feed us, clothe us, make sure we had decent schooling. My father hated every hour he stood bent over a polishing machine, but he never failed to work overtime if they asked. An extra hour meant he could treat me to an ice cream cone, buy me a toy, buy extra gasoline so we could visit a relative or go to the beach. It was a man's responsibility back then to go to work to support his family, not to buy himself expensive gadgets or clothes for himself. A man who didn't do so was a bum. Everyone gossiped about him.
The scene when John finally comes home? It's obvious that after the initial shock, the fact that he is finally, finally home, she wants to run to him, to hug him, to burst into hysterical tears over the hours of worry. But she doesn't want to do this in front of the children. Parents tried to keep their emotions on an even keel back then, so that the children would not feel threatened or afraid. It was a much different life.
Exactly. It was a time when parents were parents, not the pseudo-friends many try to be today. And we were better off for not being raised indulgently. There weren't as many special snowflakes trained in our day. This movie got it right. Anyone who would have been upset at Livie's reactions is either repainting their past or lived in a very unusual household.
shareI disagree completely. I think Neil is wonderful.
Her reaction to John Boy's locked door wasn't disturbing or "needlessly hostile". First, it was a reoccurring issue with John Boy, and even the grandmother thought he was up to mischief. Why shouldn't she ask him on why the door is always locked and why he is hiding something under his mattress? She didn't yell or scream. It wasn't hostile. He is just a real son with a real mom.
Her reaction to John Boy when he returns home from the Sisters' sleigh ride is believable too. Of course she is freaking out. She is worried to death her husband is dead. She is a bundle of nerves. Why wouldn't she snap like that? People snap at each other in real life under great pressure.
You had an issue with Niel's reaction to when her husband walks in the door. I thought she played that beautifully. Once he walks in the door and she knows he is alive, she takes up her role as the 'mom'. 'You'll be wanting some coffee', she says. It's only when she goes into the kitchen and is alone that she breaks down and cries. To me it's a much more powerful scene seeing her try to suppress her emotions to be 'the mom' than to see her run screaming into his arms right away. I love that scene and how she plays it. You see the emotions on her face and the restraint she is using. A wonderful performance.
This is the pilot, and it presented a realistic family where children bicker, parents get stressed, and sometimes people snap at each other. This isn't The Brady Bunch.
I'd like to respond to two of the points we discussed.
When John-Boy returned from searching for his daddy, she screamed at him about being out joyriding before he could say anything. THAT was her release of all her frustrations and worry. When he calmly explained what happened, she should have calmed down a bit and apologized for losing her temper, explaining that she's just so worried about John. OR, that could have been understood and she wouldn't have needed to explain why she blew up at him.
Instead, she moved right on to literally screaming at him about bringing liquor into the house when she in fact had no knowledge of what was in the container.
In my years of experience at having people lose their temper in my presence--at me or others, or the times when I have been the one to yell at someone--there is usually one thing that sets off the tantrum, and then the person calms down and gets control back.
I wouldn't have had the big problem with her behavior if she hadn't lost her cool a second time just seconds later, especially when she was again screaming without knowing the facts at all.
As for the scene near the end when her worry is over, her husband has just surprised everyone by walking in the door: To me there are two normal ways anyone would react. If she didn't want to move toward the door to hug him, she would at least have looked pleased--smiled--because he was home. The way she glared at him, it appeared she wasn't at all happy that he made it back.
I fail to see how a warm smile would have violated that "mom" role of which you speak. Whenever my wife comes home I smile as I greet her from across the room, if I'm not moving toward the door, and she does the same to me. If one of us was worried like Olivia was here, I cannot believe the other wouldn't be walking over toward the door, expressing joy at the other's return.
What is there to be restrained about?
I fully understand that the family bickered and got stressed and sometimes snapped at each other. They did that the entire series, at times. That's part of why it was such a great series. The last episode I watched had Ben angrily call Jason a coward.
I think the writing/acting on the series was better. The parents got angry with the children at times, but not very often did they yell at them before they knew what had happened. If they had done things just as Neil did on this pilot, we might be writing about one of those TV series that lasted only 13 weeks.
Flushing, I am behind you a 100%! Thanks so much. Kev
I think I am taking all of this rather well.
This is the difference between modern adults and 1930s adults.
shareI loved her!
Come on, Franklin! It'll be a fun trip!
Patricia Neal won a Golden Globe for best actress for this performance. I just watched the DVD (a Christmas gift this year) for the first time in a long time. I think it's held up. IMHO, Michael Learned was too 'glam' for this role--Ms. Neal looked the part of a country mom of seven. The movie was 'edgier' than the show, too. I guess because I saw the movie first, I preferred it to the show although I watched the show pretty religiously when it was on, too. The house in the movie seemed more authentic to me than the MUCH-larger and elaborate house used in the TV series.
shareNeil isn't bad. She's just a different character than the Livvy in the series. The one in the series was less upright while still being believably strict. She was warmer and more motherly. Neil's character has a compelling side, but is overall a lot more stubborn and emotionally unstable.
shareLerned always came across to me as a domesticated "TV Mom" - as did the series. Immediately when it began, the series lost the pilot's sense of authenticity. First it abandoned location shooting for exhausted old southern California locations where snow was never present and there was none of the stunning, rugged Teton Park locales featured in the pilot. Second, it lost all scope and looked claustrophobic, as if it were shot on a studio back lot - which, of course it was. Third, three of the pilot's major actors did not return for the series... Sad when you consider the landmark production that the pilot was, and the outstanding production values that it featured. The "real" Waltons cast to me will forever be that of The Homecoming.
shareI could not disagree more, she was absolutely fantastic. In the scene where she and John boy are talking about the tablets, notice how she embraces the tablet when John boy tells her that this is his passion.
The scene when her husband arrives home is brillant, she is showing strength and finally breaks down when out of the sight of her family. Her performance is mesmerizing throughout the entire movie.