Hearts in the right place, but.. - Superheroes (2011) Discussion

[–] eastcoastguyz 13 years ago

Valid points indeed. I'm also concerned with crooks simply ignoring them because they aren't official law enforcement. I can understand the strong need to want to help others, but I don't know if this is the best way. In New York City the Guardian Angels was started in 1979. They are well known and wear the same uniform:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardian_Angels

The idea of these people in the movie making up their own uniforms and dressing like they are going to a Halloween party or comic book convention makes me wonder how seriously they are taken by people on the street. They also don't have to qualify to any requirements.

I couldn't help from feeling sorry for those doing this in the movie. One fellow was comparing what he did to Batman, but that's a fictional character.

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[–] lysergic-acid 12 years ago

That's a good point about not having a publicly recognized persona. People know they can trust the Guardian Angels, not just because they all wear the same uniform, but because they're an open/transparent organization. They have a charter and membership guidelines/regulations that are available to the public and law enforcement. So you know exactly what they're about, and you know they're law-abiding citizens.

On the other hand, someone who walks around in a mask/costume could just be a kook or even a criminal. No one knows what their intentions are unless you already know them. They aren't bound by any rules or regulations, and some of them even confess or at least seem to imply that they do things outside of the law.

I think a better way to tackle the problem of crime, poverty, and social injustices is to raise money to improve education, especially in poor areas, and to lobby for reforms. We have a very large police force that our tax dollars go into funding. If the police aren't doing a good job or are neglecting certain areas, then that needs to be changed. The solution isn't to don costumes, arm yourself, and try to play superhero. Also, if you join law enforcement, you have the option of changing things from the inside, or to expose police corruption from within.

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[–] Hamasaurus68 12 years ago

The interactions I saw were non violent. When someone got in their face, they called the cops. By the way, the cops taking off when they pulled over that drunk driver was disgusting. They're right, police are quota machines, aiming to make money and avoid any real conflict.

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[–] DisturbedPixie 10 years ago

In a perfect world, law enforcement would be readily available and respectable.

In a better world, ordinary people would have the extra money to fund reform efforts.

In the real world, some cities have no law enforcement. Some cities are bankrupt. Most cities are understaffed. People are scared to walk their dogs in the evening. Children get shot lying in bed.

There are neighborhood watch groups that have very similar methods as these superheroes. They DO make a difference. Take for example Stockton, CA. Since neighborhood watch groups started patrolling in some neighborhoods, there has been less crime. They are heroes. They do make a difference.

Our government doesn't swoop in to save every crime infested neighborhood. If they don't think victory can be easily budgeted for, they don't bother.

Yes, we need reform, and to reduce corruption, and it's important to get law enforcement out there, but even plenty of police officers are frustrated and aren't given the opportunity to make a change.

I've called the police and have been ignored, while a crackhead tries to ram down my door. When my business got robbed, it took 10 hours for someone to show up and collect evidence, and that person complained the whole time about this not even being her job, but layoffs forced her here.

Read up about Christopher Dorner, and you will see what corruption does to a disillusioned officer and how that man became the enemy, where no civilian was safe from the police. Where judge, jury, and executioner became every LAPD officer. Safety didn't matter. It was all about taking down this man so he could be silenced, and stopped... heck he was on a rampage. But if it was just about justice, he'd be facing trial now, but that's not how the LAPD wanted it to end. They set him on fire. They had the last word, and ordinary people are supposed to accept it and anything else police do, because they are trained to shoot first... at a mother and daughter, because, hey, they could be a large black man. There is something seriously wrong with our justice system.

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[–] upstreamtuna 13 years ago

I agree, to a certain extent. Only some of them weren't physically fit to "fight" criminals. And those that weren't really don't go around trying to. All of them can get seriously hurt, yes. But all of them are also underestimated in how powerful they actually may be. Take Mr Xtreme (or whatever his name was), him and his partner at the time stopped a man and had him trapped until the police arrive. Though that may have not been a physical fight, if it had been, than I think he would have been fine. And most of them get physical training, like the New York Initiative members (who IMO were obviously the most fit to "fight" the baddies of New York). Yes, the physicality of some of the people in the film is very risky, but the mindset they have is absolutely heartfelt. Many of them refer to the woman who was murdered while 38 people watched and didn't do anything. The reason I don't think they didn't do anything is either because they didn't think they could have been of any use, or that they were scared the criminals would have attacked them too. These guys know the risks they take, and they accept it. Everyone shows signs of worrying for their safety in the film, but they also know the risks these guys are taking and they either let them for the most part, or accept the fact that one of them may get killed. The person that really surprised me was Stan Lee. It really seemed that he was mocking the people doing this, or trying to say that they shouldn't do it because it was idiotic and they would get themselves hurt/killed. I didn't expect that coming from him. But that's the point I'm trying to make. The fact that they dress up in costumes and go out onto the street trying to stop crime isn't what makes them heroes. It's the mindset they have and the risks they take.

"Are you gonna' bark all day little doggy, or are you gonna' bite?"

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[–] Misa_Malone 13 years ago

I believe a couple of them were mentally ill...

God is real. Atheists don't exist

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[–] clogan8307 13 years ago

One of them claims to be 62 years old.

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[–] Misa_Malone 13 years ago

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was the alcoholic...

God is real. Atheists don't exist

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[–] armitage-14 13 years ago

The 62-year old was Thanatos, the guy from Vancouver in the green skull mask.

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[–] BernardoLima 13 years ago

All the "superheroes" in the film would benefit greatly from therapy.

No, they are not crazy, and yes, they do have noble intentions, for the most part at least but still, they all need therapy.

First of all, if these guys really want to help the community, there's much better things they could be doing. There's a ton of things actually. And most of them are safer.

The only superheroes that were really making a difference was that couple who gave away "night kits" and payed for them out of their own pocket. But then again, there's a lot of people who do that in an organized way and don't use silly costumes so, yeah they wanna help but they are also satisfying a fantasy, the fantasy of being a super hero.

Also one of the reasons they would benefit from therapy is because they all got issues. One was forced to fight other children when he was young, the other got picked up by local gangs, another one was bullied, the tattooed one seem to have been a pretty serious criminal once upon a time, then there was the gay one, who knows what he may have gone trough because of being homosexual... And it was kinda interesting how his alter ego was a flamboyant guy...

I mean they all had deep-seeded unresolved issues .

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[–] lysergic-acid 12 years ago

I personally think it's really silly and a bit embarrassing for a full-grown adult to try to be a costumed superhero, but if they're happy doing this, and they aren't hurting anyone (including themselves), and it's something that enriches their lives rather than detracts from it, then what's the problem?

Frankly, your comment comes off pretty sanctimonious and judgmental. Just because someone exhibits some flamboyant eccentricities that must mean that they've "all got issues" and need therapy? And, what, just because some of them were bullied as children or got picked on by gangs or might have been made fun of because of their homosexuality?

By that logic, I guess 99% of the population should seek therapy, since almost everyone has been picked on, bullied, or encountered some kind of hardship by the end of high school. So that must mean we all have deep-seated issues and any eccentricities we exhibit can automatically be attributed to that, right?

Give me a break...

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[–] benmasta 10 years ago

but ur point is wrong lol.

they ARE endangering themselves and others. They could involve themselves in a situation that they are untrained for and could muck it up to the point where it becomes violent and destructive, strictly because they had shown up.

Them being in a costume can scare people. Like it was said before, people in masks have unknown intentions. The average person will say "why dont they want me to see their face? Are they trying to get away with something?" and will see it as a threat.

Its true that they want to get away with somethign though. They want to fight crime without being tied down by the law. Police dont get to fight a lot of crime the way a superhero does. There a crap load of paperwork and regulations that make the job a nightmare, and very limiting to someone who wants to be a "hero"

Its not always about being picked on that requires therapy, its what kind of personality develops because of it. If someone had been hurt so much as a kid, that they were willing to basically sacrifice themselves to stop others from hurting eachother, one has to imagine, WHY? IF they wanted to keep the peace, theyd be cops, but since they are super heroes they get to be THEIR kind of hero.

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[–] Loquez 13 years ago

not more than you are, now go back to church and sink your head under the sand.

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[–] Misa_Malone 13 years ago

Took that personally. But people without lives take everything personally. So really, who cares?

God is real. Atheists don't exist

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[–] Inceptionmisunderstander 13 years ago

Many of them refer to the woman who was murdered while 38 people watched and didn't do anything. The reason I don't think they didn't do anything is either because they didn't think they could have been of any use, or that they were scared the criminals would have attacked them too.

Yeah.... ah.... you shouldn't take the words of people dressing up in costumes to be heroes as fact. A google search would tell you the facts of the Kitty Genovese case and how they aren't even close to the way people in the film describe it.

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[–] drlyon 13 years ago

There were some parts of this that made me laugh, but what these people do takes incredible courage & incredible selflessness. Bravo to them for the difference they are making!

--push pause!

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[–] armitage-14 13 years ago

The film seemed rather uneven in tone. Fifty minutes seemed to be "look at these lunatics making fools of themselves", and thirty minutes was "look at these humanitarians going out of their way to help those in need."

There are several hundred documented superheroes in the US. Was it necessary to focus on some of the more dysfunctional of them?

I've seen some people in the RLSH movement joke that Captain Marvel only becomes a superhero when he says "Shazam", and Dark Guardian only becomes a superhero when he says "The camera's recording, right?"
A sidekick whose only function is to film him in action? Really?

Maybe I'm cynical, but I kept interpreting the references to Kitty Genovese as "I read Watchmen, and I think Rorschach is cool." In the comics, he was inspired to become a vigilante by her murder.

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[–] amsyco13 13 years ago

I've seen some people in the RLSH movement joke that Captain Marvel only becomes a superhero when he says "Shazam", and Dark Guardian only becomes a superhero when he says "The camera's recording, right?"
A sidekick whose only function is to film him in action? Really?

I have a different take on the camera.
He uses the camera as a tool to drive the drug dealers out of the park.
They showed him do this twice, by confonting the drug dealers and telling them that he had they breaking the law on film and was going to call the police if they did not leave the area.
And twice it worked.

**************************
Are you a bug Bill Murray?

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[–] armitage-14 13 years ago

That is obviously one aspect of it, but you also have to look at past patterns of behavior.
Over the years, whenever a news story about NY superheroes was done, Dark Guardian was there. Whenever a TV crew was filming NY superheroes, Dark Guardian was there. When G4's short-lived documentary series "Underground" did a segment on the RLSH movement, Dark Guardian was prominently featured.
In fact, I believe the same video of the confrontation in the park was used on "Underground".

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[–] lysergic-acid 12 years ago

That's probably more a result of how films are produced and the media operates than a reflection on Dark Guardian.

Stock footage is often cheaper to use than shooting new original footage. That's why the use of stock media is standard practice in TV and other fields of media production. Using archival footage is another form of this, which is especially cost-effective if you already own the rights to the footage.

In today's landscape of consolidated media, many TV networks, production studios, etc. are all owned by the same parent company. So if filmmaker A has shot some footage of Dark Guardian for a movie documentary, and then later TV show producer B is making a program on the same topic, and both filmmaker A and TV producer B work for subsidiaries of the NBC-Universal media group, then they have access to the same archival footage, then it's very likely that the TV program will reuse some of the documentary film's footage. Many TV producers will probably search through their archival footage library for the content they need before deciding to shoot original footage themselves.

And something similar probably happens with contacts and research. If Dark Guardian was interviewed for a major RLSH documentary, then he's now on the radar of future filmmakers or TV producers looking to cover the RLSH phenomenon. Either they saw the original documentary in their research, or Dark Guardian's name got passed along to the TV producers. Or maybe Dark Guardian just has a bigger online or offline profile than other "superheroes" and that's why both the documentary maker and the TV producer found him for their respective programs instead of some other superhero.

Also the media, and especially modern media, is very sensational by nature. So many documentary makers and most TV show producers want to find the most outrageous angle to cover their topic from. That includes finding the most colorful/eccentric superheroes to interview and film. And this isn't exactly a community with a very large population to begin with. So that's another reason why Dark Guardian was likely chosen both times.

This is also the same reason why you always see the same handful of experts repeatedly showing up on different documentary programs and TV series. Some people just have a better on-screen presence and thus have cultivated a relationship with the media even though there are thousands of other experts in their field, many of whom might be more knowledgeable or have better credentials.

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[–] VinceIndigo 12 years ago

All those people were losers, they were posing, they weren't even looking for crimes. I'd respect them more if they were costume enthusiasts. They couldn't even make decent costumes.

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[–] hammertime15_6 13 years ago

Mr. Extreme seems like he has some form of autism and shouldn't be away from his parents for the sake of his own health.

Master Legend seems like a total drunk creep.

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[–] upstreamtuna 13 years ago

I agree with Master Legend.. He was a little stranger than the rest

"Are you gonna' bark all day little doggy, or are you gonna' bite?"

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[–] nick-carlson-122-361763 13 years ago

Master Legend puts me in mind of the car designed by Homer Simpson - "The Homer". An overweight, beer-guzzling lech staggering around in what looks suspiciously like a circa WWII German infantry helmet, Master Legend is surely Homer Simpson's take on being a superhero. Someone ought to build a working model of The Homer and let him drive it on patrol.

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[–] lazy_ash_101 13 years ago

You make some good points, but honestly I can't help but think that while describing these "Superheroes", you've also described probably half of the entire US Police Force. No offense, In case any of you have relatives in that field of work, but I've seen some cops that I know couldn't run 30 feet without being winded and out of breath.

Life is like a movie. Only you can't pick your genre.

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[–] Mrpinkeye 13 years ago

i agree with the OP about the fitenss/health aspect. when we first saw the marial atrist guy with the red and blck suit i thought "yes, thats the way to do it". to those saying these guys need mental help, like the film says:the people that need help are the ones that dont act. if every area had people patroling to keep streets safe and giving to the needy the world would be a better place. if they want to do it in a costume then thats up to them. if theyre not hurting anyone why should it bother you? well done real life superheroes

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[–] Hamasaurus68 12 years ago

The guy that rousted the drug dealer out of the park had a black belt in a martial art and was in shape, better shape than most cops (he was the one with the black uniform with red trim). The other ones that ousted the drug dealers, did so with bullhorns in a group, with members of the public present.

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