Why so angry?


What is everybody on here so riled up about? So a guy with a different point of view than you made a movie expressing that point of view. What's the big deal? isn't that the point of art? To express the way that you see things. I don't agree with the guy either, but it doesn't bother me that he made this film, nor do I now hate the actors who are featured in it. My ideals aren't so weak that I can't stand seeing others put forward.

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What is everybody on here so riled up about? So a guy with a different point of view than you made a movie expressing that point of view. What's the big deal? isn't that the point of art?


But is it art? Or is it someone using a movie to push their agenda?

When Michael Bay makes his Transformers movies (as awful as their are), he's making them as what he believes is entertainment.

Not only has this "movie" put its agenda first, but the filmmakers actually go so far as to say so in their interviews. They didn't set out to make a movie, they set out to make propaganda.

That and the fact this movie is apparently 100% awful.

Don't try to cash in love, that check will always bounce.

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It's a "point of view" that could become a political reality, one that violates women's rights to be human beings. Yeah, being considered not worthy of human rights because I have a vagina makes me angry.

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And on the flip side, the film maker would say that abortion violates a fetus' human rights even more, as it results in them not being born, which probably makes him angry. Again, not saying I agree, I just don't see the harm in someone putting forth their belief. Now, if the problem is that the belief is put forth badly, such as creating straw-man opposition or just plain lying about things, I could see the problem with that. But I understand that abortion is a touchy issue, people are going to feel differently about it.

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Also, being against abortion does not mean you believe women don't deserve human rights. Like I said, I realize it is a touchy issue, but take it easy on the hyperbole.

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it just means you think their rights are negotiable. in other words, that they don't always deserve them. it's not hyperbole to point that out.

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Sorry but if it's about human rights, be responsible with your vagina and don't incubate another human being that you seem to have no problem violating.

On the other hand... there's a glove

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[deleted]

I don't see how it's even remotely on the same note but yes, men(?) absolutely should not rape women! Unfortunately if someone is going to rape, I think decency is really not an issue of concern to them :o[

On the other hand... there's a glove

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[deleted]

This may come as a surprise, but if abortion is restricted or outlawed, it will happen through the legislative process. As you may know, legislators are elected by everybody, including pro-lifers and pro-choicers such as yourself.

If Americans are so overwhelmingly pro-choice (meaning that they oppose ANY AND ALL restrictions on legalized abortion and also want the federal government and the states to fund them), then how come this supposedly pro-choice electorate hasn't elected an overwhelming number of pro-choice legislators?

Could it be that there are many people who think that abortion may be taking of an innocent human life? The development of the Internet hasn't helped the pro-choice side. Just do a search for abortion in Google Images or Google Video and see what comes up. As you probably know, you'll need a strong stomach.

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If Americans are so overwhelmingly pro-choice (meaning that they oppose ANY AND ALL restrictions on legalized abortion and also want the federal government and the states to fund them), then how come this supposedly pro-choice electorate hasn't elected an overwhelming number of pro-choice legislators?


So, pro-choice = complete legality, no restrictions or regulation? Then pro-life must mean complete 100% prohibition and criminalization.

Yeah, definitely a huge majority of Americans are in that camp. Nevermind that in every single poll taken on the issue, that is always the the least popular option.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

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"It's a "point of view" that could become a political reality, one that violates women's rights to be human beings. Yeah, being considered not worthy of human rights because I have a vagina makes me angry."

Yes, you are a human being and have your natural rights, the most important one being the right to live.

The right that many apparently find perfectly acceptable to take away from their own children while talking about their own rights.

+++by His wounds we are healed. - Isaiah 53:5+++

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My children have every right to live. A woman who cannot deal with a pregnancy shouldn't be forced to continue it. You know that there are thousands of people out there who are waiting desperately on kidney donations? Why are you selfishly hanging on to both your kidneys? Because it's your body and no-one can make that decision for you. I'm not entering into this debate with you because A) I'm sure you're a man who will never have to experience this and B) I'm starting to go into labour and I'm just waiting out the first pains before we go to hospital. I chose to have this baby but I'm glad I had a choice.

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But is it art? Or is it someone using a movie to push their agenda?

Every storyteller will slip in certain presumptions which can perhaps be construed as propaganda by those who disagree with them (e.g., Dickens was agitating for socialism in A Christmas Carol, according to http://lewrockwell.com/shaffer/shaffer93.html).

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Every storyteller will slip in certain presumptions which can perhaps be construed as propaganda by those who disagree with them (e.g., Dickens was agitating for socialism in A Christmas Carol, according to http://lewrockwell.com/shaffer/shaffer93.html).


Not this. There was no "slipping" or "hinting", it was blatant and obvious.

I actually got the chance to see this recently, and yes, it is CLEARLY propaganda. There is one scene where pundits discuss the abortion issue like a panel on The View or something. It was very lazily done and completely outside of proper storytelling conventions. The only way it would have been worse is if the writer spoke directly to the camera and said "abortion = bad".

Don't try to cash in love, that check will always bounce.

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[deleted]

You can decide if this is good art or bad art, but movies are an art form.


They can be, sure, but art can have an agenda too. The difference between this movie and Reds is that this movie doesn't have good actors, good dialog, a good writer, a good director, or a well told story. Reds may have an agenda but it doesn't let that get in the way of telling a good story.

There are some people that cite Juno as a Pro-Life movie. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but politics are not the point of the movie. It's a quirky comedy in which there would be no story without the girl having the baby (same thing with Knocked Up).

If the filmmakers of this movie wanted to make a good Pro-Life horror movie they failed miserably. I think having a woman get an abortion and then having the ghost of that unborn child haunt her could have made for a more interesting story (and the twist is nothing is haunting her, its just her conscience) and do it without any of the characters blatantly stating the politics.

Don't try to cash in love, that check will always bounce.

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OMG! Someone made a movie with a point in mind!!! Oh, no!!! And movies like Milk, Reds, and Brokeback Mountain didn't promote liberal/leftists POVs? Just like The Green Berets, The Patriot, and The Passion of the Christ didn't promote conservative/right wing values? Guys please, if you don't like this movie you don't have to. But don't pretend it's breaking some evil new ground in that it's promoting a point of view.
PS Somehow I don't really think of Ken del Vecchio (producer of Polycarp featuring witchcraft and starring porn actresses)as some right wing, Christian wingnut trying to stamp out abortion with his movies.

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Ah, you just have to love the hypocrisy of the left. Conservatives are forced day in and day out to hear the liberal agendas of Hollywood in Movies, Tv shows, news, etc and one film that comes out with a right wing pov and it gets torn a new one.


Libtard hypocrites make me sick. They're the worst kind of hypocrite. They only believe in the freedom of their own speech.. Whats worse is the movie wasn't half bad. In no way does it deserve its rating.

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[deleted]

Opinions are dangerous in a democracy, for they can be used to justify oppressive legislation via enterprising demagogues. Thus, disagreements cause stress and anger. (Incidentally, most people receive their opinions uncritically from others, while actually believing themselves to be open-minded and reasonable--and therefore that other opinions are irrational and even wicked.) Governments have always feared loss of power from dissent; in a democracy, people identify with the government and thus tend to be hostile to those who disagree with the narrow range of accepted views.

In a free society, by contrast, your neighbour's opinion is harmless. (Note that I am distinguishing ideas from actions.)

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