haha really guys?


I haven't seen this film (yet) but I just checked out the ratings and lol:

men: 4.2
women: 8.1

It says it al...

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That's seriously disgusting. I bet that 80% of the voters haven't even seen the movie.

This tells us everything about how we look at the opposite sex. Prejudice, prejudice and even more prejudice.

__________________________________

how'd you like to love me forever

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[deleted]

"These people are talking about sexualization and exploitation of women in media WHILE showing the clips of them being exploited, how are they any better? It's ridiculous."

It shows numerous clips, and I do mean numerous, to drive home the ubiquity of this sexualization. It's data to back up the argument.

"We should be talking about how women are ACTUALLY treated in the real world and not how they are in media."

First, the hypothesis put forth in the movie is that media shapes this culture in an unprecedented way. Put another way, media is one of the prime shapers of our culture. Talking about how women are treated in the media is central to drawing conclusions from this hypothesis.

Second, the film is persuasive about the hypothesis, although it could have done a better job, and although you'd think it'd be obvious to anyone with a brain that nurture is enormous to the human being, and that media is a prime nurturer.

Third, the film does indeed talk about how women are actually treated. A lot, in fact! It does so through examples of how women in power, mainly in politics, are treated. It does so by hypothesizing that the dehumanizing nurture of media correlates with rape and violence (although this could, and should, have been elaborated more). It does so by talking to young women about their own experiences.

And don't act thick as if you don't see that men often can't see past looks, or that women don't sometimes treat each other as if they're in a competition vying for affection.

QED.

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[deleted]

No one debates that.

Why is it that we can write articles about the plight of men and only men and not a soul pipes up "What about the women??!" but not one article focusing on women goes by without rallies of "What about the men???"

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Because the ratio of such articles about women to men is about 1 000 to 1.

The mainstream media and feminization of our society over the past 40 years or so has made virtually everyone on the planet well aware of the plight of women.

Very few are aware of, or even care about, the plight of men in our society.

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Notice how this post gets ignored. My first post was responded to almost instantly.
That's because there is no valid retort. The true fact is that men are equally, if not worsely (if that's a word)portrayed/represented in the media than women.

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I'm concerned with women, and I enjoy media studies that center on the topic of women. That makes this documentary enjoyable. I am far less concerned with men or the plights of men. So too am I uninterested in focusing on men when I partake in documentaries and other forms of entertainment. It's entertainment, it's subjective. People choose what will entertain them the best. This was established some millennia ago. I find women's stories fascinating, so I focus on women whenever possible. I find the freedom to do this rather enjoyable, and don't plan on giving up that freedom, even if menfolk happen to disagree with my focus on women. I am certainly not going to be bored on purpose just to appease some misguided notion of "fairness". Fairness is not a requirement when it comes to personal taste or choosing which films to watch.

Hope this helps clarify things for the chronically confused among us (such as MrBean5411).

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[deleted]

Have you even watched the film. It's pretty self-explanatory about why there is a focus on the mysogyny in women. If you didn't glean that from the film, then I'm not sure what to say. And the film does talk about the negative effects that these portrayals of women have on men in society...with comments from other men for god's sake!

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Classic reverse-discrimination stance. But what about the plight of the _______? Insert (white people, rich people, anyone not traditionally considered opressed). What you are ignoring is the fact that the media is run by said men. Are they victimizing themselves, and if so, why should we care?

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Mr Bean is it possible that the plight of men is tied to the plight of women.

Invite you to mention what you think the plight of males in society.

http://wp.me/p1GTj0-i

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Absolutely spot on! Takes two to tango, ying & yang etc. If things are to improve we both have to change.

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[deleted]

I think we are going to see more and more desperate crap like this, simply because the mainstream media is starting to lose it's grip on the public conscience. Cultural Marxism is falling out of fashion quickly from what I see, and since it's all about controlling the narrative to them, they'll pull out all the stops to make us hate each other.

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Some of these women were either unaware of the consequences or were exploited in their past. Many were told to wear the shorter skirt, show a little boob etc. Couric as an example of her lack of awareness fully admits, she shouldn't have showed all that leg. You know nobody ever asked Cronkite or Brian Williams to show a little leg.

Great film, really makes you think during the film and long afterward.

qwiggalo, you obviously did not see the same film I did...

The film is not just celebrity talking heads. It features many young girls and women. One very articulate young woman (maybe 17) I believe of Indian heritage grabbed me talking about her forays into politics in school. I wanted to jump up into the screen and hug her for her courage and determination. For me anyway, she is the hero of the film.


"Anyone who tells a lie has not a pure heart, and cannot make a good soup." Ludwig Van Beethoven

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Yes! *cheers*

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I'd like to see it. Does anybody know where it's playing?

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[deleted]

Wow I cannot believe the men on here. Im a guy and disgusted at what you guys are saying. I'm sorry but the FACT OF THE MATTER is that you have NO RIGHT talking about men being discriminated against. Look up top, idiot. MEN RULE THE WORLD. You have issues with how men are portrayed in Media? Well look at it in relativity to how women are portrayed; powerless sex symbols that only serve men... it's reality and you won't see it because you're A) A MAN and B) WHITE.

Bafoon.

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Yes but that’s what you want, that’s what everyone wants because we don't do enough to stop that statistic, the white male dominant egotist is looked up to by men and women and this is the problem that both men and women face, its no good blaming each other we all need to sort this out, women and men. We all deep down feel comfortable with the father figure at the head of the family, in this case your country who in most cases happens to be a white dominant male depending on your country/culture.

I as a guy don't want to be like this but have been pressured into becoming like this to succeed in society, I ashamedly have to admit I backed out of that race feeling I couldn’t compete culminating in me losing my ambition, which I’ve since regained due to films like this, Zeitgeist, kymatica etc etc. A lot of smart women with ambitions do this as well, they just give up due to the heavy pressure put upon them of not being part of the elite mind-set, its no good complaining and hoping society will pity us we all have to fight for our voices to be heard other wise they’ll just steam roll us like they are now.

We can’t go around blaming certain sections of society because when you break each person down were a lot more complicated than anything you can fit into a category, even the generally white male egotists in power think they are there because we want them there, they’re waiting to proved wrong.

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Actually, I'm fairly sure that we have the right to talk about whatever we want. But thank you for showing us the kind of fascist attitude that passes for equality in the "feminist" universe.

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I'm a female, one at uni at that, but the whole time I was watching the film, I can't help but think these girls who are that susceptible to media are somewhat weak-minded. Bearing the fact that I have been a teenage girl, and obviously have friends who have been teenage girls, it's all down to the individual mindset. Then again, though, I'm also Asian, and I see the statistic that 34% of girls think they are overweight... well statistics say that's about right because the majority of people are obese here. I'm not saying that being teased is good, but I'm just saying this whole blame against the media is too much. Media is there to entertain, not to educate, that's in the role of parents and such.

"STAMOS!"
"Spell... 'Banana.'"
"I'm afraid I just blue myself."

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I thought Like you when I was a teen to early 20's. You might not realize how much effects you as a person.


I see the statistic that 34% of girls think they are overweight... well statistics say that's about right because the majority of people are obese
Just the fact that you quoted one stat from the movie then turn around and said that most people are overweight. You don't have any stats to back that up. The media has said most Americans(I have heard similar stats for the UK) are obese and there is an Obesity epidemic. There are people that know how to manipulate the stats to prove their point.

Think about how many hours you spent with your parents and how many hours you spend with media when you was a kid. Some people are full time worker and they don't have the option to spend as much time with their children as they would like but and so their kid end up communicating as much entertainment as they would like. But media is not just entertainment it also ads. So even if you swore off tv, going to the movies, internet, magazines, and newspapers, you would still have to contend with ads. Ads are everywhere. How do you combat that?

As an avid media consumer, I had to sit back and think how many of the films, tv shows, Anime, manga, Asian Dramas, blogs magazines and books show women in all their complexity. Their isn't much.

Clearly media has and effect on people. I'm sure at Uni you talk friend about other things and just your life and your school work.



http://wp.me/p1GTj0-i

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[deleted]

Most men might not be members of government but most of the US congress and senate is men. Most of the supreme court is men. Most of the CEO are men, Most the t.v. affiliate's are owned by men. Most writers and directors in Hollywood are men.

Also that link is a stat and it doesn't prove that obesity is an epidemic.

http://wp.me/p1GTj0-i

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I checked out the stats and I saw this
Males Aged 45+ 11 2.8
Do you think it has something to do with older men having different in gender roles than the younger men today?
I just found it interesting.

I'm buysexual, if you buy me something, I become sexual.

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Actually, that particular statistic breaks down to just 8 guys (at least they say they are guys, for all we know they could be dogs) giving this film a 1.


In fact, the entire "Males" statistic is poisoned by 24 accounts (maybe not even dogs, maybe just one vindictive dog with a lot of spare time on his/her paws) grading this film with a 1.
Throwing away all those 1s and your average male suddenly likes this film a lot more.

Well, your average documentary-watching, internet-time-wasting male.

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And 178 "dogs" gave a mindless documentary a 10?

Turn around your vitriol and it sounds rather hateful....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCIGyv3CZi4#t=7m37s
the chef from top chef breaks it down in a far more insightful manner. her reasons for the gender disparity in her profession are based on the real world facts, not on some nonsense about media representation and arguments based on assumptions that men and women are identical in every way only when convenient for the argument.

She explains it 7 minutes into the talk...it has nothing at all to do with mindless condemnation which forms the foundation of thought for documentaries like this one.

If you've ever wondered why the term feminist is so tarnished now, its folks like you who mindlessly support this type of poorly thought out nonsense. I'm sure those 178 were just enjoying their little bout of vote back slapping, but in the end they are just supporting a tired and irrational argument that in the end damages feminism by portraying women as being irrational, and prone to group think consensus thought, and prone to trying to shout people down.

The documentary is just filled with pandering. They replay the dove advertisement which was just that, pandering to women, you don't think they have women they don't have to photoshop to that degree? who are we kidding? margaret cho who is frankly not funny blames the media and then refers to drew carrey getting his show, well sorry, but that is just rather convenient, blame the media and sexism, do not look for any other reason, its just lazy and mindless.

The idea that because politicians are mostly men in the us, the situation is better in other countries? The logic is laughable, they point out many other countries have women leaders, well yea, but have you looked at some of those countries and how they treat women in every other aspect of life? Benazir Bhutto was the prime minister of pakistan, one of the most sexist places on earth, so how does this fit in this theory? The theory of sexism and the sexist media being the blame for everything, you think american media is sexist? What do you think pakistani media is like? This fundamentally breaks this documentaries premise from the get go. "if you don't have women there then girls do not see them and be that", well I guess the pakistani prime minister must have grown up watching female pakistani prime ministers all over their media right? give me a break... This documentary is just an unending spree of poorly thought out and unexamined ideas...


The complaints about media are just as simple minded. The assumption is that if something is not 50/50 down the line it must be sexism behind it. So I guess women have just as much desire to watch womens basketball as men do with the NBA? Have we tested this? yes we have, and the answer is inconvenient, so the constant cheap attacks about how hollywood is just not catering to what women want is just nonsense. If there is money to be made, someone will make it. There was no conspiracy of men trying to hide oprah's show, if it makes money, it will be done, but I guess that is too logical for those who buy into the mentality behind this film. This films selective reasoning is actually very similar to that which you see in conspiracy theory "documentaries", you can build a case using these techniques for most anything you want.

Every argument in this documentary is cheap, trash tv is depicting women poorly? Really? Trash tv doesn't depict men horribly as well? does anyone really think the men on jersey shore are portrayed as anymore respectable compared to the women? The arguments in this documentary are constantly like this, quick line after quick line of stuff that does not hold up to close examination, which is why they flit from subject to subject so hyperactively. basically this type of constant one sided argument is lying through omission. You can make a case for anything you want by taking 10 second clips out of context from countless clips of media. those claiming that this is good for women must think that discouraging critical thinking is something good, and thats just sad.

Are women really not becoming plumbers because they don't see them on tv? Be honest...seriously. If media were as powerful as claimed, america would be filled with thin people. But don't let that huge inconvenient fact that flies in your face stop you from jumping onto this bandwagon. this documentary only shows that the documentary maker has a firm grasp of the techniques of propaganda, but to make a cohesive well thought out case is apparently out of their grasp.

The whole bit at the end, where they suggest you go watch movies directed by a woman, preferably on fridays was a laugh. Do you think chris rock got where he is because only black people watch him? This entire mentality is just wrong.





The most damaging subtext behind these documentaries and mentality is this, they portray women as fundamentally fragile, the "media" tricks them, they are soft minded, easily manipulated and just weak. Instead of this evil "media" we will reprogram gullible girls the "right" way! All the girl power messages are undermined by this subtext which is hammered over and over in the media by the usual suspects who claim to be feminists when they are nothing of the sort. they claim to do good, but they actually do harm.


To use the words of erika falk phd from the documentary against herself, women like her paint themselves as more fragile, emotional, and gullible than men, therefore they are irrational and cannot be trusted in positions of power.

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Looks like you did not really pay attention to the film because it was clouded by your own biased point of view. All the arguments in your post use fallacies. For example: "If media was really that powerful, everyone would be thin." Appeal to ignorance. Not worth my time to even disprove your poor arguments because they are not valid.

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You obviously have no clue what "appeal to ignorance" (actually "argument from ignorance") means. Here, I'll help you out:


"[argument from ignorance] asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false (or vice versa). This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there is insufficient investigation and therefore insufficient information to prove the proposition satisfactorily to be either true or false."

His statement was actually somewhat fallacious, but it was not an "argument from ignorance". Moreover it was basically a rewording of the same argument feminists use when trying to prove that the media is responsible for anorexia/bulimia/unhappiness, but I somehow doubt that you would ever object to their usage of the same fallacy.

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Awesome reply man. I don't normally bother reading comments that are more than 2-3 paragraphs long (they're usually a waste of time) but yours just kept hitting one excellent point after another and I couldn't stop. Thank you. It's nice to see a voice of reason amongst all the emotional nonsense.

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well its not surprising because its just playing the same old tune. 9 out of 10 prisoners are male, so why would you think anything else would be 50/50 down the line? going by this films type of thinking it must be a conspiracy by society that creates this disparity, they can't dare to think otherwise, and that is the problem. anyways its quite selective, you only see such people concerned about women in say tech jobs or executive positions..more women as electricians or plumbers, not sexy, don't care. Its always concern about why more women aren't race car drivers, but zero concern there aren't women who want to work in the pit. selective concern for the facts is just standard, you pick and choose for your arguments and you get a silly documentary like this.

you can't be what you can't see is fundamentally illogical, it assumes girls have to be coddled and "tricked" into pursuing goals. do you think bill gates was the prom king when he spent his early mornings on the school computer before classes began? did he get attention from the cheerleaders? did society revere nerds back then? of course not, you can go case after case after case where this is true, so this entire premise is just faulty.

this documentary is just part of the problematic mentality of a certain line of feminist thought where the answer to every issue is to find a way to blame men or society for any perceived inequity they see. They start off with a conclusion and work back from there, and that is a problem. if the media's influence were as strong as claimed, america would be thin, that is for sure. anyways this type of thinking is patronizing at its core. just imagine if it were applied to boys, muscular men in comic books should be giving boys eating disorders...but well obviously they aren't, because we don't coddle boys or enable/encourage that type of thinking in them, whereas girls are bludgeoned by such "feminist" women/groups into believing they are so weak that a magazine could destroy their self esteem. this documentary is just the same type of thing, soft minded thinking which is patronizing, and in the end does the opposite of what it intends.

being concerned with demographics from what is probably fake information to begin with only reveals more of the problem. you are concerned more with trying to dismiss arguments out of hand rather than deal with the logic. this is the result of lazy concensus thinking that has infected the feminist movement.

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Do you know how to capitalize letters? Your buttrage could come across somewhat less silly if you did. Somewhat.

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If anyone from the whole "men are treated just as badly (if not worse) in the media" crowd happens to stop by, please have a look over here, this guy will break things down for you. I stumbled over this thread and this video about the portrayal of men and women in comics/games at the same time, must have been fate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfY_yzw_-yw&feature=player_embedded
Jump to 1:28 if you're impatient.

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That video didn't change my mind at all. That is just opinion. It is not based on facts in any way. The way in which men are portrayed in the media is having a negative affect on society. Portraying men, and particularly dads as bafoons is detrimental to society. It makes boys feel worthless and inferior to women. Girls do better at school than boys. Girl behaviour is considered superior to boy behaviour. More women are attending and graduating from university and college than boys. Society devalues the role of a father. Look at all the fatherless homes. This leads to many social issues that hurt our society as a whole. Whether you want to admit it or not, men are treated worse in western society than women.

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I know I'm a few years late with this forum, but I just found it and had to laugh. Us modern Western women don't know how luck we are. There are some countries out there that allow men to rape women on the street for showing skin, or put women to death for adultery.
Any female in the Western world these days should (and probably does) know that it is entirely possible to succeed in their chosen profession if they work hard. But the hard work bit can put many people (men and women)off achieving goals, so they don't and blame someone or something else such as the media for not getting where they want.
And being influenced by the media is just silly, I don't read fantasy novels and feel inadequate as a human for not having magic powers, just as I don't see an add on tv or in a magazine and think, wow I look like crap compared to these people, because it is pretty obvious to anyone with a functioning brain that this is the unobtainable fantasy ideal and very few people will have anything close to it, plus the world would be so boring if we looked the same or were all equally as rich or happy.
Also not everyone is suited to every role, its just a fact of life that we have to get over, like I know I will never be a runway model because I am not 6 feet tall and my face isn't strong enough, but I don't care, because there are other things that I am way better at. I also know I wouldn't be good at many traditionally male jobs like mechanics, commerce type jobs, that sort of thing, because they would bore me to death.
I think the media excuse has been going on for way too long, young people are told time and again that the media shouldn't be taken at face value and that business shows things to benefit them not the general public, we all know it, but some still just use it as an easy excuse to not do things we want, or say we want. Like I'm pretty sure we all know that if we see a pair of shoes advertised as the best of the best, being sold for five dollars, they are just going to fall apart a month or two after we buy them. And they may look pretty on the box, but I bet they don't look like that in the flesh.

But I suppose it is hardwired in our brains to be as visually appealing and materialistically rich as possible in order to attract a mate and pass on our genes in the form of offspring that we can afford to feed. Which is why nothing will change, in fact it will probably get even worse. We as humans are just like other animals on the instinctual level.

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I really don't like the argument "but it's worse in some other places, so we shouldn't try to improve our society!"
It's not very logical.

I think most Western women DO know they are lucky, but that doesn't mean they (and men, because it's not a one-gendered fight) aren't going to try and improve things. That's the hallmark of a civilised society.

I don't feel held back because I have had great education, great career opportunities for myself, been fortunate in my relationships with men, and have only been assaulted once. But I still think things can get better, and so I'm not just going to say "oh well, it could be worse, who cares what the media does". We can do better than this.

I just came back from the cinema where I saw "Star Trek" (two women, gratuitous bikini shot, the women didn't speak) and trailers for "After Earth", "Fast and Furious 6", "World War Z" and "Wolverine". Where are the women???

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That's not what the poster was saying at all, the film tried to use the example of other countries having female presidents and leaders to pain the U.S. in a bad light for not having them, but failed to mention that many of those countries like Pakistan, are FAR more sexist towards women then the U.S. ever was, which makes the example fall flat.

Fast and Furious 6 actually does have a strong female character- Letty played by Michelle Rodriguez, who has stated that many young women in fact look up to her as a positive role model, also Wolverine has not one but two very important female characters, which shows how ignorant you are.

So what if After Earth didn't have women? The story was primarily on two characters and frankly didn't really need women, I wouldn't have objected if the lead roles were done by women, but when watching the film I didn't find myself asking "Where are the women?", same with "World War Z".

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I agree it's pointless to point occasional presidents or members of cabinets in countries with overall atrocious attitudes towards women and use that as an example of something good.

About the films, I think you have missed the point. Of course most of those films have female characters (some "strong" ones too, perhaps). But every single freaking trailer I saw had a man as the lead (and in almost all the trailer - no women). Irrelevant?

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No I didn't "miss the point" at all, and you must've seen a completely different trailer then me, because the female characters were indeed featured in the one I saw.

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Yes. There may be some women in small roles. Hurrah? You are such a troll.

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They're not "small roles" dumbass, they're pretty major, did you ever watch the film? I think it's pretty obvious that you're the real troll here dumbass.

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I'm not sure you understand the difference between lead characters and more minor ones.

Call me dumbs four more times and then tell me how I'm the troll.

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[deleted]

I'm a man and I gave this a 5; not because the subject doesn't interest me or isn't important to me, but because it really didn't tell me anything I didn't already know. "The media is sexist?" "Women are objectified based on their looks?" "Men in power abuse their power over women?" No sh*t! Maybe if they explained how women represent 51% of the voting public but are still grossly under-represented in public office, then we might be able to make some headway in taking care of this problem.

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