Cool, so here in Europe we saw it before many americans did. Did anyone notice any unexplained holes, like what is the majority of those 97% idle people in a citie's population going to do? What about WHY people buy SUV's and the like? What about fun? The necessary lowering of our perceived living standards is never mentioned.
shareHello bdo,
Those aren't "holes." The truth is, there is a lot of information, and if the movie covered everything in that great of detail, it would have been 10 hours long.
But to answer your questions:
1.) 97% of the population wouldn't be idle, they just wouldn't be doing meaningless, trivial jobs. They would be educating themselves, learning, socializing, exploring, creating art, engineering, designing, having sex (hehe), and living productive lives. Also, that 3% of people that he was referring to would simply be maintaining the automatized machines and finding ways to optimize them further.
2.) There could be larger cars like SUV's. The models shown in the film are not the only car types that would exist. Nothing in the Venus Project design is set in stone, it is open source, dynamic, and built to be changed and improved on. If someone needed an SUV-type vehicle, a practical product would be produced for them.
3.) Fun? This society would allow greater freedom for fun, happiness and fulfillment in life. A large section of the city design includes a recreational area filled with parks, playgrounds, etc. It would be fun. =) More so than the world is fun for most of us today even. ;)
No standards would be lowered. In fact, the richest person in today's society could be seen as poor in comparison to anyone living in the Venus Project.
For more answers, watch this: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3932487043163636261
I hope I answered your questions. If not, the link I showed you should cover most of your questions. :)
Warm regards.
I like a meaningless, trivial job. Exhausting, too, preferably. I enjoy it. I'm a stone dresser: it keeps me occupied without having to cope with stupid human beings - not quite though, since I unfortunately still have colleagues. In case you wondered, it's an idiotic job: repetitive, dull tasks exclusively. Perfect.
I don't like educating myself, learning, socializing, exploring, or creating art - I used to be a sculptor but gave that up altogether because I can't even stand the sheer presence of a model for two straight hours, not to mention people wanting an idle chat with the Artist. I don't give a flying *beep* about engineering, designing, having sex or living a productive life. I can't drive, so I couldn't care less about what car is available or not - I also avoid buses, trains, planes or any kind of transportation device, for that matter. They are full of loud morons who smell either of their own *beep* or cheap perfume.
The single great thing about this otherwise very boring society is you can sit and watch it sink, with everybody on board *beep* each other and babbling about human rights and the sanctity of life and brotherhood and love, until water finally enter their mouths and shuts them up for good. The Venus Project would take human life to even greater heights of boring, if that is only possible. Fortunately it will never come about. Martial law will start any minute in the US and general chaos is coming to Europe. Here comes a time for those self-important, bloated monkeys to kill each other for food. Watching them wriggle about like maggots in pile of turd will probably be more fun than living in a Star Trek cardboard world.
Wow... you are certainly a sad creature. Get some therapy before you kill yourself. Seriously.
God is an atheist.
Well, that's very kind and very thoughtful of you, thanks, but I'm not the sick one.
shareWhile it's true that the vast majority of the jobs we do today will be unnecesary there are many "jobs" that will be created, probably many we haven't even heard of today. The transition of the first years will need a lot of people helping out.
Helping to organize and spread resources where it's most needed, recycling all the junk and crap we won't need will take a lot of work. It will take several years before it all works by itself and not even then are we gonna be lazy. The transition time will have so much work that I don't even know where to begin.
As opposed to common opinion, this society will NOT make us more unwilling to work, on the contrary we will be able to fulfill anything we want.
A resource based economy will not only take care of the natural resources most efficiently but also the HUMAN resources most efficiently.
No more wasted lives....but creative, interesting, meaningful and busy ones.
well since you're naked you might as well f___ a friend of mine. Paul come in here!
I'm not sure this very old post was a reply to mine but for the sake of argument let's pretend it was.
So let me begin by hahahaha! You think the "vast majority of the jobs today" are necessary? Even funnier, you believe that this crap project is anything else than NWO depopulation propaganda? You think your masters want to give you a "creative, interesting, meaningful" life? You think you matter to them?
Gosh, aren't you the naïve one. Or maybe - I don't mean to be rude - a woman?
Even funnier, you believe that this crap project is anything else than NWO depopulation propaganda?
I think pinkskin was being facetious.
The movie woudl tell you that you were abused as a child.
----------
"Common sense is not so common."
- Voltaire
So what about the "pet project" issue? Everybody's going to come up with their own idiotic version to every solution claiming it is scientific.
I don't even know where to begin with teh problems:
--scienetific--
They all going to claim that theirs is THE scientific solution
As wake up now: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CONSENSUAL SCIENTIFIC AGREEMENT IN THE FIELD OF INNOVATION, THERE IS EXPERIMENTING!!!!
--resource--
THERE WON'T BE ENOUGH RESOURCE TO LET EVERYONE'S IDEA HAPPEN!
You would need infinite!! resources and more to let everyone's idea to happen, which I'm sure isn't available any time soon...
--idiotic--
Trust me 90% of any solutions WILL be idiotic. I know because Ive seen it with my own eyes, when people were allowed to come up with anything they really did.
Literally anything, regardless of efficiency or even sanity. You just encourage them...
--viability--
Who is going to restrain the truly!! whackoest ideas to be attempted to be realized if there won't be the danger of the solution would be unmarketable? (as there will be no markets) also remember what i said above, in the field of innovation, there is no scientific consensus. you experiment!
Is it not a waste to cater for those ideas?
--pet project problem--
lets say you somehow started to do something. later others want to improve it, because they know its stupid or infactual, or illogical. They change it. Then you change it back. Then they change it again. Then you. Then them again. And so on.
How do I know this?
YOUR COVETED WIKIPEDIA EXAMPLE IS EXACTLY LIKE THIS!
Any fck who ever started a wiki page will revert EVERYTHING to the state as he'd done it every single time as long as he is alive, regardless of how good or true the change is!! Look at the history of any given wikipedia page, its nothing but this:
page created by piff...
...
page changed by paff...
change deleted by piff...
page changed by paff...
change deleted by piff...
page changed by paff...
change deleted by piff...
page changed by paff...
change deleted by piff...
page changed by paff...
change deleted by piff...
page changed by paff...
change deleted by piff...
FOR FCKIN EVER AN EVER!!!
How will you ever get across the realization of ANYTHING without a structured body?? Its no way that will happen.
"All you get from killing monkeys is a deep sense of shame." - Alec
@pinkskin
xaxaxa
nice :)
MAN, your post filled me with optimism and good feelings because I totally resonate with what you say I also have a trivial job, even more I think of this job as my own Venus Project, I regard it as something the scale of planet Venus I hope these morons won't let me without it cause I've been through great pains to find it
shareGlad I could be of help. Of course if you want to keep your job in this brave new world, you will either be kept in a zoo as a specimen of a lost civilization or more probably mercifully terminated - to put you out of your misery. That's the way it's done in socialist dictatorships, technological or not.
Jacque Fresco is a raving madman, a Club of Rome insider whose most generous proposition to mankind is to eradicate 95% of the world population. Fortunately he's old and as a result will die soon : that's what I call setting the example.
Do you have any evidence for those radical claims?
You are spreading misinformation. I expect you read a lot of internet blogs, and do not have the skills to verify the veracity of information.
>> Also, that 3% of people that he was referring to would simply be maintaining the automatized machines and finding ways to optimize them further.
I find this interesting ... how do we reward that 3%? Where do they come from, how do they get educated?
i think there would have to be a kind of socialist (to use a loaded term) infrastructure, and then a private economy where people could compete for recognition and reward, only fairly.
What if there were some critical number of people like the Nazis that found a way to take over, corner the infrastructure and enslave everyone because they were not strong enough to resist and dependent on those who held the spigot to their resources?
A lot of human evolution seems to be missing for people to live in a situation like that.
We would need global goals and rewards for reaching them.
The first goal should be to lengthen human life, because what good is our brain and civilization if we die so early, and all our perceptions are lost to the generation following? This is in a sense happening today. One lives there life without a care about things like taking care of parents of worrying about crime or disease ... until it hits you, then you learn, but that leaning that makes you more human is then lost on your demise, leaving ignorant kids to follow who may or may not learn those lessons in time to make any difference.
Look at the idiotic argument or socialism in the US. Some subset of people have brainwashed the rest of us to disavow a whole subset of civilization in order to push society to be more militariistic, the ends of which are supposed to be for liberty, but one mindful thought will show that to be a lie. How do you deal with evil? How do you understand evil, and is evil a necessity for humans?
well i didnt see this movie yet but i saw the two movies before it and looked at tons of videos from jaque fresco.
if you ask these questions, that means you didnt understand the whole idea, dont take it as an insult, most people doesnt understand it..
this system is all for removing limitations and not the other way around..
after lots of talking about these idias i got one thing for sure.
everyone i talked with said that it will make people lazy, and at the same time saying that people should do something and that laziness is bad.
if you ask them if they would do something in this society they say they will..
so why do they think this system will make people lazy ???? i will never understand it.. i know that the best things are made by people that didnt get money for it or didnt get much...
most of the people wont just be lazy, cause thats not the humans nature (the current system made them this way), humans nature is curiosity.
look at children, are they lazy ??? they dont have to go to work, and they doesnt think about money, they have tons of energy and they are doing things all day.
when you wont come back from your work that you dont like you have energy to do the things you want to do..
people will learn new things, they will have the means to do what they want to do, if its painting, creating movies, building stuff, teaching stuff, improving stuff, inventing stuff, and whatever they want to do..
people will be able to just live how they want to live..
some will want to just go wave surfing all day, can you say this is bad ??? this is not bad, this is how it should be in the first place.
yeah some people will be lazy, and thats totally fine, that wont bother anyone cause in this society lazy people are much less of a burden.
these days people that thought of the greatest innovations cannot make their inventions real because they lack the buying power..
in a resource based economy they could invent everything, cause money is not an issue.
just think of yourself, what would you do if you had all the time you would like, no commitments, no job to go to everyday, and no money issue.
would you turn into a lazy man ???
well maybe for a year or two..
after that you'll feel that you are wasting your time and you will start thinking what can you do to make things even better or what can you do that is creative, and you will start do things, if its art, tech, helping the society or helping other people it doesnt matter.
just read about monetary incentive, it only works to a certain point (this is researched)
people dont just do things for money, they do things that makes them feel better with themselves.
money is a good incentive only when the work is mechanic, when its getting more than mechanic, it needs a real encouragement like knowing that what they do is helping, or wanting to develop something special..
money is just there so they will shut up about money, thats why people do hard things for low income..
corporations knows this and this is why they advertises their jobs like they do..
like google, the workers have the best working place ever (they can even play with the playstation when they want to), thats one of the things that makes people want to work there, and the knowing that google is a name, and its good for the ego and impression on other people.
the people that actually developed android aren't the people who got the most of the money, they got the least of it, and they still do it.
the same goes to any other corporation on earth..
now look on the free stuff or open source stuff.
take wikipedia for an example, the guy that made wikipedia didnt get any money for doing it and he actually spent money on it, and yet its the biggest encyclopedia in the world.
did he do it for money ??? no
did he do it because he's lazy ?? no
did he do it because it made him feel better ?? yes
did he do it to help other people ?? yes
why did it get so big ?? because he did it with true intentions to make info much more accessible free for everybody.
now think how better things can be when you do everything with true intentions to make it very useful instead of the intentions of making money..
im sure that if you will want to have an suv you will be able to get one for free..
but think a little deeper, maybe we can make cars that will wait on the street to anyone who needs it??
you dont have to own a car, just go down and get into a car and go, what do you think about that??
when someone invents a new technology lets say its a new tv tech, you wont have to stay with your last generation tv just because the corporations wants to sell more old generations tv's before they bring the new ones to the market, you will just have to take your tv back to recycling and take a new tv from the "shop" (it will probably be some crazy hologram tv).
i know people (even good friends of mine) that just cant think of a system that you dont do things to get something in return, and they just ask about what do you get in exchange over and over again, even after you said you get no material in return.
and then they say noone will do anything..
but if everyone thinks that people should do things, why do they think anyone will be lazy ???? can you see the conflict here??? if you think you should do something you will do it..
same people also asks what would you do if someone comes and steals your car
my first answer is that i have no idea why he steals my car cause he can get one without stealing but i'll go to get a new car (for free).
than he asks what if the same guy comes again and steals your new car?
well why would he do it?? he already has a car !!
and his answer is: well thats just how he is, he likes to steal cars..
that means he didnt understand anything about the system..
people aren't born with the loving for stealing cars, they do it cause it profits them.. then he says im naive.
then he asks what do i do if i want to grow vegetables, i say fine, grow it..
then he asks what do i do if someone will come to vandalize the field that i like so much?
me: why would they do it??
him: because they want to, thats how they are, thats their genetics..
then i ask him what if i take a child from an extreme muslim terrorist and put it in a western society? will he be an extreme muslim ??? and he answers no..
so i think how can he say its their genetics and answer a totally different answer for this question..
than i just understand that he's so fixed on the current system that he cant even put this data into his brain..
check the web, its full of questions like yours with answers from jaque fresco and peter joseph.
go to www.thezeitgeistmovement.com and look for stuff
try to just write jaque fresco, peter joseph or the venus project in youtube.
there is a Q&A video with jaque fresco, peter joseph and roxanne, maybe you want to see it..
i hope you will understand that any hole you find is fixable if we think of how to, people are much smarter then you think...
this system is not perfect but its much much much much better then the world today..
sorry for the too long post
Excellent ranalyner-955-2412 I couldn't explained better.
shareWow, that is the longest non-sensical comment I've ever read... (honest opinion, no intention to insult anyone).
The "holes" in this thread refer to the new system proposed by the well presented and researched movie where the Venus project will resolve the problem of earth's limited resources by... creating a fantasy land where everything will be free because automation / mechanization will create everything for nothing and 97% people will be jobless, while remaining 3% will be so happy that they don't have to work in their cubicles anymore they decide to go to work for a supercomputer in their new and prettier cubicles.
Yes, the central planning system is what a good engineer will do to resolve human problems - no messy negotiation and politics, a fair super computer will decide what is best for humanity (Terminator movies come to mind)...
But get real here. If there is any solution to depleting resources of humanity (esp oil), then it is more likely to come from some new power source (gas, hydrogen, nuclear, etc) than hoping that the same fallible human will create some super computer that is capable of making our lives perfect.
Perhaps people need to stop watching Star Trek and live in real world for a while...
===The "holes" in this thread refer to the new system proposed by the well presented and researched movie where the Venus project will resolve the problem of earth's limited resources by... creating a fantasy land where everything will be free because automation / mechanization will create everything for nothing and 97% people will be jobless, while remaining 3% will be so happy that they don't have to work in their cubicles anymore they decide to go to work for a supercomputer in their new and prettier cubicles.===
Labelling the idea as a "fantasy land" is not a valid criticism. If we are trying to determine whether or not it is necessary and viable to establish a new way of organizing the global society, we need to have a healthy, intellectual debate about it. Simply going around putting derogatory labels onto things you don't agree with is not constructive in any way.
Explain why the idea is unattainable and can be equated to a simple fantasy, with supportive evidence, and then maybe I will take you seriously.
===Yes, the central planning system is what a good engineer will do to resolve human problems - no messy negotiation and politics, a fair super computer will decide what is best for humanity (Terminator movies come to mind)...
But get real here. If there is any solution to depleting resources of humanity (esp oil), then it is more likely to come from some new power source (gas, hydrogen, nuclear, etc) than hoping that the same fallible human will create some super computer that is capable of making our lives perfect.===
From your belligerent and pointless two paragraphs, I get the sense that you just don't really understand the idea being presented in the film. Perhaps I'm wrong and you do - but the fact that you offer no constructive criticism, and try to sarcastically paint the picture that the idea is just unattainable without any valid argument - suggests otherwise.
It's also just baffling to me that you think that the solution to depleting natural resources, is not strategically managing them - but instead hoping that some new energy source will replace oil and this will suddenly prevent resource depletion.
I do not make the same connections and conclusions that you do when I try to logically think about solving the depletion issue. Oil has been abundant for a very long time, yet, throughout the past century, mankind was still extracting and using natural resources in an unsustainable manner. So, when some new, abundant energy source replaces oil, contrary to any historical trends, you conclude that mankind will suddenly smarten up and stop depleting other natural resources? What?
It's not all that difficult to pinpoint the root of the depletion problem to the monetary system and the profit motive. When you use monetary economics as an accounting system for natural resources, the only important data is global demand versus the supply of extracted product, so that a price can be set. There is no accounting for the supply of non-extracted resources, no accounting for the rate of extraction versus regeneration, no accounting for the use of the extracted resources, no systematic strategies for resource preservation, recycling, etc. Then, once a price is set, the only important strategy is to sell and to generate enough revenue to be a profitable company.
Not only will strategically managing resources be conducive to sustainability, but when you don't have a system of exchange, and organize the principles of society around egalitarianism, there will be no incentive to have a harmful industrial system. Why would you extract oil, or ammonia, when the profit motive no longer exists and we can research without constraint into alternatives?
I really hope someday you will understand that utilizing a computer with specific algorithms to determine how to best use natural resources to operate society for human benefit, isn't a fantastic, unrealistic and unattainable idea. But you probably won't. You've been well conditioned by this society to be cynical without any evidence, and to support pre-existing establishments, likely because questioning the established order is unconventional and looked down upon by the majority. Of course, I'm making assumptions here, but at least I can admit that I am.
@ william-hartanto have you even watched the film? there is no mention whatsoever of a super computer deciding things, and even if that was the case i would much prefer a super computer than a bunch of corrupt politicians willing to send me and mine to our deaths so they can have a new kitchen fitted, the common person has for to long had to put up with our 'betters' taking advantage of us leeching the blood from our veins then tossing us away when we are no longer of use, how could a computer possibly be any worse.
regardless your points are stupid, and while i agree that there are some holes in the project that need to be filled, super computers are not one of them, since most people actually watched the film and understood that the computers would be for resource management and allocation, so its actually you that has been watching to much startrak or terminator if you imagine computers would suddenly come alive and decide to hate humans for no apparent reason
You took all the ideas out of my head. There is no need for me to post anything you explained everything.
Good job and everyone should read your post.
P.S. People are so used to today's style of life to that extent where they start believing that's what how life is. "Life is not fair" and "Life is cruel" are sayings of a capitalistic world which is a very evil "Dog eat Dog" world.
Real life is freedom and enjoyment.
Money ≠ Freedom
Money = Slavery
I can't believe you can't think of what you would be doing if you didn't have to have a job. I can think of 1001 things I could be doing every day besides being a corporate slave. :-)
"animals are serious people and serious people are animals..." -Osho
I think that is the best criticism ... I wonder if human beings are so lustful and addicted to misery that we would choose to tear down the whole system to go back to being animals? Kind of reminds me of Forbidden Planet, monsters from the id !
Are we addicted to fighting for money, status, women, whatever? Honestly I think this is the biggest question ... well, or course after it happens, the first big question is how does it happen when the powers that be can sit back and call it marxist or socialism or whatever?