MovieChat Forums > Holy Rollers: The True Story of Card Counting Christians (2011) Discussion > Is anyone else skeptical of this documen...

Is anyone else skeptical of this documentary?

posted 12 years ago by liche-1
9 replies | jump to latest

I only know a little about card counting, but I thought from watching shows about the MIT team that the point of having a team was to have someone at the table counting cards who can signal to other players that the table is hot so as to make it difficult for the pit bosses to figure out who is counting. These players don't seem to do any of that. If they are simply playing as individuals and then dividing up the winnings between the teams and investors, why not simply play by yourself once you've amassed enough money to do so? Then you don't have to share the profits with anyone and only have to worry about your own mistakes. That's strike one.

What was the incentive of the casino security to be involved in this documentary? Why did they provide footage of their operation? An argument could be made that they want bad card counters to come to casinos and lose or that they were misled about what the documentary's final verdict on card counting would be, but it still seems odd that they would be willing to participate in something like this when they would have no control over the finished product. Strike two.

And that leads me to strike three: Why, when things were getting really tense for the team and they really needed to get time at the tables and were hoping that their antics weren't going to get noticed by the casinos, were they willing to allow the filmmakers to film them on hidden cameras. Wouldn't some guy trying to keep the lens on you draw attention, and wouldn't that make you even more nervous about the situation than you already were?

There was also some strong foreshadowing that the problem was going to be someone stealing; it was mentioned twice before I predicted that that was going to be the cause of their bad string of luck (which to be fair was never confirmed). There were a few instances of the members swearing in a way that seems strange for the type of Christians they profess to be. I know that tattoos are cool to some Christians, smoking a pipe generally less so (but perhaps I don't know the pipe-smoking kind). They add one non-Christian to the team and then the holy spirit tells one of them that he is the thief? This stuff could all be true (except for the holy spirit part), but it all seems so contrived.

Then, in addition to all this, it turns out that the documentary functions as an ad for the business of teaching card counting that managers of the team now work at. You can even find their website if you look for it.

I don't know. There's no smoking gun, but it all seems so odd.

Hit me.

[–] liche-1 12 years ago

One point I omitted:

Why does someone whose business model depends on not being recognized by casinos as a card counter want to be in a documentary about being a card counter anyway?

[–] steinmike 12 years ago

Ben Crawford and Banjamin Ady are still Facebook friends. Must be real mad at each other over this.

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] robertearlkeen2003 11 years ago

Yeah, their card-counting team was a little strange. They had more than enough people to run a traditional "one person counts cards, other people act as the big gambler" operation.

If you have 1-2 people at a table counting cards, and 5 others coming in just to make big bets when the table is hot, you maximize your gain while minimizing your risk (especially since the people making the big bets are the ones that are going to get backed-off, and those people don't have to be trained to count cards).

I don't think this documentary was "fake", because their system was inefficient and makes them seem like a bunch of amateurs.

[–] sfrsez 11 years ago

u r right. this is fake. due to rule changes in 1970, no system works in bj

[–] welshNick 11 years ago

Totally fake. I say this as a seasoned card counter who has played in teams and individually over several years. Main points are it is almost impossible without using team play. You can sit for hours by yourself and the count may not go in your favor. We saw guys on this saying they were kicked out of a casino having won $800 or so in 4 minutes.

This can be done but you need deep pockets. With perfect play you generally win one hand every 2.2 dealt to you. You have a standard win bet say $100. Evertime you lose a hand you double your bet until you win one. You generally will not lose more than 5 in a row. If your pockets are deep enough and the table limit is high enough, you will win and this appears to be the system they were using.

[–] ryanmcnallen 11 years ago

That is called The Martingale Betting System http://onlinecasinos-usa.com/blackjack/blackjack-strategies/

[–] alblmfld-1 9 years ago

Card counting the swings can be enormous, so it's hard to do something like this with your own bankroll. The more players you have playing, the more likely the numbers will even out, and you won't have the huge dips and lows one individual would have.

I agree, it was stupid not to play as a team and that really bothered me. They had the numbers, and it's way more efficient to play as a team. It can take hours to get a favorable count. So if you have say 5 people playing the minimum, counting the cards, more likely one of them will get a favorable count, and you can signal the high roller over to take advantage of it.