MovieChat Forums > Platinum Hit (2011) Discussion > songwriting as a 9-to-5 business rather ...

songwriting as a 9-to-5 business rather than genuine expression

posted 13 years ago by yojimboy
14 replies | jump to latest

All of the final 3 songs were artificially emotional -- they were written to sound big and moving, but they weren't very unique or thoughtful at all. They were cookie cutter TV soundtrack songs. Which isn't surprising given that they were only given 8 hours to write them (on Project Runway the finalists are sent home and given weeks alone in their home environment to formulate a creative statement that is uniquely theirs). If it wasn't for the ridiculous level of non-ability the winner had in actually writing music, I wouldn't feel anyone had been "cheated" of a win because all of the songs were forgettable corporate product.

[–] Synthia7 13 years ago

Definition of SONGWRITER:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/songwriter
: a person who composes words or music or both especially for popular songs

Or. Not And.

[–] yojimboy 13 years ago

Definition of PEDANTIC:

pe·dan·tic (p-dntk)
adj.
Characterized by a narrow, often ostentatious concern for book learning and formal rules: a pedantic attention to details.

[–] rj-b 13 years ago

...BWAHAHA!!

twice in one night!! whouda thunk it?!

www.YouTube.com/RoyJeeBivMusic

[–] rj-b 13 years ago

with all due respect to the dictionary, i would call one who only writes words a 'lyricist'; one who only writes music a 'composer'; and one who writes both, a 'songwriter'.

www.YouTube.com/RoyJeeBivMusic

[–] Synthia7 13 years ago

Well the producers of the show and the judges agree with the definition -- that a songwriter can be one who composes music but doesn't have to be.

They expressed this by casting someone (Sonyae) who they knew from the beginning played no instruments. And in fact, provided musical assistance repeatedly to her because they didn't feel she should suffer from her lack of musicianship.

Finally, they crowned her the winner knowing full well she wasn't a musician. So you all can try to impose your own definition on "songwriting" if you want..but the dictionary and the show disagrees with you.

There are plenty of songwriters who don't compose music. There are different types of songwriting. The song hinges first and foremost on lyrics and concept.

Also, Sonyae gave the musician guidance about the type of music she wanted. There were no really exceptional musicians -- mostly mediocre ones -- so the fact that the others played doesn't necessarily elevate them as songwriters. And beyond Sonyae there were really no exceptional lyricists. There were plenty mediocre people who blended lyrics and music, but clearly the judges were not moved.

[–] Rogue-32 13 years ago

If Sonyae is so into music, as she claims to be, you'd think by now she would've taught herself the rudiments of her chosen field - chord progressions at the very least. She seems very superficial to me, and I don't think her 'Religion' song was in the least bit 'deep', as Kara called it last night.

http://www.roguesreviews.com;Giamatti:movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/talkpaul/

[–] rj-b 13 years ago

If Sonyae is so into music, as she claims to be, you'd think by now she would've taught herself the rudiments of her chosen field - chord progressions at the very least.

yup. basic piano, at the very least. you can even look up basic music theory online. clearly she's a talented lyricist and can conceptualize a decent song idea, but there's no excuse for not having pick up an instrument by now, particularly if she wanted to take songwriting as seriously as it seems.

www.YouTube.com/RoyJeeBivMusic

[–] Rogue-32 13 years ago

"...and i can go into a restaurant and tell them i want my steak heavily seasoned, blackened and cooked medium rare -- doesn't make me a chef, does it??" -~- Perfect analogy.

http://www.roguesreviews.com;Giamatti:movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/talkpaul/

[–] Synthia7 13 years ago

No that's not a perfect analogy. LOL. A person who creates lyrics, concept and melody for a song is legitimately considered a songwriter. They can compose as well, but it's not required to be considered a songwriter. Whereas, a chef has to cook to be a chef.

However, logic is not desired on IMDB, nor are dictionary definitions apparently. LOL.

I'm done with this discussion.

[–] rj-b 13 years ago

the analogy had nothing to do with the discussion about the definition of a songwriter. the analogy was in direct response to you saying how Sonyae gave 'guidance' about the music she wanted to the musicians. but nice attempt to deflect, there.

regardless, any guidance she gave anyone was the 'feel' of the song -- any simpleton can say, "i want a hip-hop feel with a little grunge", or, "how about a soulful down-tempo track with acoustic guitar", et al. and for the finale, she never suggested anything to the producer -- he actually sat down at the piano and suggested chords.

real songwriters will pick up a guitar or sit down at the piano and lay some chords down -- even if it's any variation of I, V, VI, IV -- and refine the arrangement from there. because, as strange as it may seem, melody isn't as effective without a chordal arrangement beneath it; as such, the song as a whole isn't as effective (this was also evident in Sonyae's final song -- she had no melody was lacking and had no direction until the producer put music to it).

you can base your logic on what you read in a dictionary -- i'll base mine on real world experience and common sense after actually thinking for myself.

even if you think Sonyae counts as a successful songwriter who doesn't play an instrument, can you name any others?? oh, right, you're done with this conversation -- clever way to avoid losing an argument.

www.YouTube.com/RoyJeeBivMusic

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] rj-b 13 years ago

Well the producers of the show and the judges agree with the definition -- that a songwriter can be one who composes music but doesn't have to be.

i understand that -- just putting my own opinion out there.

And in fact, provided musical assistance repeatedly to her because they didn't feel she should suffer from her lack of musicianship.

and that's unfortunate -- they allowed her in the competition, which is fine, but after that nobody should have received any sort of preferential treatment.

Finally, they crowned her the winner knowing full well she wasn't a musician. So you all can try to impose your own definition on "songwriting" if you want..but the dictionary and the show disagrees with you.

...they crowned her the winner b/c a recording contract was tethered to the grand prize. not saying she didn't deserve to win, but if the premise of the show had been dedicated solely to songwriting and not performing, there were other contestants who would have finished ahead of Sonyae.

There are plenty of songwriters who don't compose music.

and i'm sure nearly all of them aren't professionals in the industry.

Also, Sonyae gave the musician guidance about the type of music she wanted.

and i can go into a restaurant and tell them i want my steak heavily seasoned, blackened and cooked medium rare -- doesn't make me a chef, does it??

and with how big a flop the show ended up being, i wouldn't necessarily argue that the show's producers and judges are the end-all-be-all of songwriting knowledge.

www.YouTube.com/RoyJeeBivMusic

[–] Rogue-32 13 years ago

I agree, the last three songs were pretty lame, but then again this show is lame and it shouldn't be back next year. I used to like Jewel, but she really turned me off with this, her overall attitude and her comments; ditto with Kara. And the wrong people kept getting sent home, leaving those three, none of whom impressed me at all. Sonyae was the most unworthy - a songwriter should at the very LEAST have some grasp of chord structure even if he or she isn't a virtuoso on an instrument. (And in the context of this show, 'songwriter' meant words AND music.) When she was getting helped out by the guy last night - and she needed a LOT of help - and afterwards she said, to the camera, 'I hope he doesn't ruin my song', I nearly changed the channel.

http://www.roguesreviews.com;Giamatti:movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/talkpaul/

[–] rj-b 13 years ago

agreed with just about everything you said, but i wouldn't hold so much against Jewel (at least for her comments...the fact that she boring as sin, well, that's another story...) or Kara... the show was heavily edited and the fine print at the end of each episode clearly stated that decisions were made in conjunction with the show's producers -- so whatever they said could have been dictated by two or three execs who wanted nothing more than to create drama, and who really had no desire to allow 'music' to win.

www.YouTube.com/RoyJeeBivMusic