Best chess player who ever lived?


I believe so, but would like to hear others' opinions. U.S. champion at age 15. And I still remember watching the first Spassky match in Iceland in the summer of 1972, between college and grad school. Fischer utterly destroyed Spassky. I also remember an interview Fischer gave around that time. The interviewer asked him how many moves ahead he saw when playing chess. Fischer just smiled and said, "Just one. The right one." For me, that sort of sums up his genius. Supercomputers may have eclipsed humans in chess play, but I doubt there will ever be another human player as good as Fischer.

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I just saw this documentary, and that statement "best chess player who ever lived" struck me too. Especially if you contrast it with Gary Kasparov's statement about the Fischer-Spassky rematch, saying it was "1972 chess".

I don't know that much about professional chess really, but I know that the use of computers to analyze positions (and even play, and beat grandmasters) has changed the game. I believe I've read that during adjournments today, players are even allowed to use computers to analyze the games. Sounds strange to me, but I guess that's the way it is. It seems likely, especially in view of Kasparov's statements, that the game has evolved since 1972. Could Fischer in his prime, brilliant as he was, keep up with it today? How successful would he be? I have no idea what the answer would be.

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Some would say Kasparov, others Capablanca. And the various ratings systems, including computerized systems, tend to give differing answers and are criticized for various faults/limitations.

But I think it's worth considering that in 2008, then-world champion Viswanathan Anand ranked Fischer first; and eight years earlier he had also ranked Fisher first.

And if you add in the fact that Fischer apparently suffered from OCD and, probably, some form of schizophrenia, it's a wonder he was able to function as well as he did. It has also been suggested that Fischer suffered from hyper acute hearing, which may be why the nearly silent whirring of the cameras at the 1972 match bothered him to the point that they had to move the cameras more than 150 feet away. One can only guess how well he might have performed without all these problems.

I don't think that playing "1972 chess" in his rematch w/Spassky is necessarily a good metric for judging him. He had been out of competitive chess for a long time, and was probably quite rusty. Indications are that his mental problems were also getting worse. If he were alive to day, had kept in practice, had a clear mind and had access to the computers that others are allowed to use today, I think he would be the best in the world.

But we'll never know. I'm just glad I got the chance to see him play on several occasions. His sense of chess was uncanny, and he tended to destroy his opponents with brilliant moves that no one else saw coming. In the 1972 match, after one particularly stunning victory, even Spassky applauded. That's quite a tribute.

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One can only guess how well he might have performed without all these problems.

It's possible that these problems of his are what molded him, at least in part, and that he couldn't have gone very far without them.
Fanboy : a person who does not think while watching.

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Anything is possible, but I'm a trained psychologist, and I've never seen anything that indicates that OCD, schizophrenia and/or hyper acute hearing would make someone a better chess player. They would only seem to be distracting and to interfere with one's natural chess talents.

If you can furnish some supporting documentation, I'd be happy to review it.

It is better to be kind than to be clever or good looking. -- Derek

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i found that comment very strange by kasparov

"they played 1972 chess", implying that chess strategy has radically changed since then???!??!

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I agree. I think Kasparov's comment was strange. I'm not aware of any new openings or defenses, etc., that have been invented since then. But I could be wrong.

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Opening theory (and in fact all of chess theory) is constantly advancing. New moves are constantly being tried and lines are constantly being reassessed. Top grandmasters spend several hours a day keeping up with new developments, and coming up with new moves of their own to surprise their opponents with.

Usually, this is done with the aid of sophisticated chess programs such as Rybka, thought there are still a few holdouts who refuse to use them.

"1972 chess" does indeed have a different character than 21st century chess.

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I don't think Fischer would have stood out in the world of computer aided chess analysis. His real power was in his preparation. His knowledge of opening theory was encycolpedic compared to others in his time. As the 80's dawned I believe the playing field was leveled as computers entered the fray.

Who knows? Maybe he saw that coming and got out at the right time after all.

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Well, pt100, honestly I hope you're right. I have fond memories of the original Fischer-Spassky match, and if he's the greatest chess player ever, I would be very happy with it. I just don't feel qualified to judge.

I also remember being very disappointed when he refused to defend his title against Karpov. He was something of an American hero up until that point, and was responsible for a big boost in popularity for the game. That was probably the first point where his quirkiness became an irritant to a lot of people. A champion chess player who won't play chess? What's the point?

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There have been many advances in the game of chess in the past 40 years. Most advanced chess players, however, can look at the talent of a great player like Fischer or Capablanca and see how much stronger they were at their time and know that if they were alive and playing in the current time at their strongest, exactly how they might pair up against the current elite players. Fischer would undoubtedly be one of the top three strongest ever players. What is frustrating is that Kasparov, probably one of the other three top players, was playing during Fischer's life and it would've been very interesting to see them play. Alas, due to Bobby's mental illness, this never happened.

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"advances in the game of chess" ? as in strategies that players weren't aware of in the 70's?

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Definitely further developments in the understand of openings, middlegames and endgames. Some big refutations of accepted endgame theory of the time that would change the strategy of your game plan. If you handed a Grandmaster a game between two high level players of that time, and one played today, chances are they'd be able to tell the difference just by looking at the moves.

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@heather

"Definitely further developments in the understand of openings, middlegames and endgames."

what about everything else ? are you saying the only things that have developed between 1970's and 2012 are just in the three areas of OPENINGS, MIDDLEGAMES , *AND* ENDGAMES? thats it???? you cant be serious :P

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Silly man, go back to checkers :)

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It's almost played out now - recent world championship with eleven straight draws.

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I don't know if Bobby was the best ever but he certainly shook the world up back in the early 70's.

He's the best known chess-master, probably because he was American and because of his bizarre antics. They have the all time ratings in Wikipedia and I think Bobby is usually in the top ten but not the best of all time.

However, in the 60's up to 72 nobody could beat this kid. He wanted the title so bad he went crazy doing it.

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Nah, Fischer wasn't the best ever, but he was one of the best ever, and also he singlehandedly beat the Soviets without help from computers, which is more than can be said of anybody else. But in terms of pure play, if you put a 1970's Fischer together with a 1980's Kasparov, Fischer wouldn't stand a chance. And he probably would also have lost to the strongest modern players like Anand and Carlsen.

Saying he was "the best" is too simple, but he was definitely one of the most important and, according to Kasparov, contributed to a revolution in the way chess was played.

I am almost a master at chess, and I still don't understand Fischer's games too well. He was more than a brilliant player. But I do think Kasparov was objectively better.

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That assumes that a great player can't stay competitive by playing a lot against the best players and learning to evolve in the process. I'm not willing to say that. What if Fischer had stayed active?

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Maybe you're right, but in all other chess instances, the old guard hasn't been able to catch up when chess theory changes. When Kasparov came along he had simply taken chess to a whole new level, and I don't honestly think Fischer would have been able to stand a chance against him. Although it's worth saying that Kasparov's style was significantly influenced by Fischer's.

Even still, if Fischer had stayed on the chess scene through the '80s he probably would have remained one of the top few players in the world, and even today I'm sure he would be among the top dozen or two.

It's all hypothetical. What I'm trying to say is that Fischer wasn't necessarily the BEST, just one of the most IMPORTANT. But he was not invincible, and the younger players would have begun to beat him if he had stayed around. No different than any physical athlete.

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Fischer won the U.S. Chess Championship 11-0 in 1963, an absolutely astounding feat that has never been replicated in any national championship and probably never will. Imagine throwing two perfect games during the World Series.

In the 1970-71 Candidates's matches Fischer then defeated Taminov 6-0, then Bent Larsen (the best player in the west after Fischer) 6-0. and then Petrosian,(I don't remember the final score, but Fischer won the first two games of the match). That would be the eqivalent of throwing FOUR perfect games in the World Series and will never be done again,ever. An amazing event.

Fischer was down 2-0 in the 1972 World Championship Match against Spassky and had never beaten him prior to this match, yet won 12 1/2-8 1/2. This would be the equivlent of.the 2004 Red Sox coming back after being down 3-0 in the ALCS.

Kasparov is one of the greatest players in chess history, but I sensed some professional insecurity in his comment.

Bobby Fischer was the greatest chess player to ever live, which makes his descent into madness ever more tragic.

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Thanks for marshalling those key statistics. I think they make a compelling case for what I've been saying. I just wish we could have seen him play if he had been a bit more normal, active and had had a longer career. I don't think we ever got a chance to see everything he could have done, which is a terrible shame.

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He is the best player according to how MUCH he achieved and HOW he achieved all his success. That line about how he was simply a boy from a rundown apartment in Brooklyn, New York and how this boy managed (through years of studious work and passion) to discover and unlock the mystery of the game really really struck me..

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There was a great line in the documentary about how the genuises in varying arts had studied/practiced at least 10,000 hours in their respective areas. Fischer is a classic example of someone who made himself into the best through hard work and determination, despite growing up poor and fatherless.

Fischer was right about the Russians prearranging draws in the Interzonals to conserve their energy so as to concentrate against the non-Soviet grandmasters.

Frank Brady updated his profile on Bobby in "Endgame' and is an excellent supplement to the movie. I knew most of the information beforehand,but the archival footage was first rate.

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Fischer didn't play after the 1972 match and so probably didn't keep up with the little changes in opening theory, which over time amounts to a lot of change. So when he played Spassky in Yugoslavia 20 years later, they played a lot of the same old openings. The games had an old fashioned look to them.
Still, Kasparov's "They played 1972 chess" bothered me. He seemed to be supportive of Fischer with all his other comments but this one. Fischer didn't played badly at all. In fact in some games, he came up with some good improvements in the "old" openings. For example, in the first game, a Ruy Lopez Breyer Defense, he came up with 19.a4!! I could give other examples as well. Not bad for someone who did not play competitive chess in 2 decades.
Spassky and others have gone on record as verifying Fischer's claim that the Russians prearranged draws with one another. Fischer played every game to win, no matter what. Anything else to him was cheating.
It's hard to compare people from different times. Who was better, Ty Cobb or Pujols? Joe Louis or Ali?? As the saying goes, "We are tall today because we stand on the shoulders of giants".
And the biggest "giant" of them all? Bobby Fischer!

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To go along with your past/present analogy, I would submit a Mr. Paul Morphy. Morphy and Fischer are undoubtedly the biggest figures in American chess history. For those unfamiliar with Morphy, he played competitively in the 1840's-1861, stopping upon the outbreak of the Civil War. After crushing all challengers on the national stage during the '40's, the First American Chess Congress paid for him to compete against the Europeans. In Europe, he continued his dominating play, and was commonly regarded as the unofficial chess champion of the world. Sadly, like Fischer, Morphy was doomed by a mental illness; severe depression. After a failed law career, he spent the last years of his life as a recluse, eventually dying inside his home at age 47.

If you watch some of Morphy's classic games (try chessgames.com), it's impossible to miss his brilliant play in juxtaposition to that of his opponent's, even though his moves now would be considered very average. Still, Morphy was an innovator and an important figure in chess history.

Now, to my point: If Morphy and Fischer both played against best of the present, with the knowledge of today's theory, I think Morphy would be more dominant that Fischer. Today, people are more able to replicate Bobby's strength of preparation. However, Paul Morphy's biggest gift was his phenomenal vision. His gift is timeless.

Here are some nice quotes on Morphy:

"A popularly held theory about Paul Morphy is that if he returned to the chess world today and played our best contemporary players, he would come out the loser. Nothing is further from the truth. In a set match, Morphy would beat anybody alive today ..." - Bobby Fischer

"Morphy was probably the greatest genius of them all." - Bobby Fischer

"Morphy was so far ahead of his time that it took another quarter century for these principles of development and attack to be rediscovered and formulated." - Garry Kasparov

"The radiant combinations of this chess genius can be compared with the transparent music of Mozart, and his impeccable behaviour at the board and his precise observance of the chess rules, which he himself introduced, resemble the Mendeleyev Table of the elements." - Anatoly Karpov

"Morphy gained most of his wins by playing directly and simply, and it is simple and logical method that constitutes the true brilliance of his play, if it is considered from the viewpoint of the great masters." - Jose Capablanca

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In 1964 Bobby Fischer listed his top 10 in Chessworld magazine: Morphy, Staunton, Steinitz, Tarrasch, Chigorin, Alekhine, Capablanca, Spassky, Tal, Reshevsky.

People have tried to use computers to rank players. In one study based on the percentage of errors in their games, the computer Crafty ranked the 14 world champions, starting, unfortunately, with Steinitz. This was the computer's ranking:

Players with fewest average errors:

José Raúl Capablanca
Vladimir Kramnik
Anatoly Karpov
Garry Kasparov
Boris Spassky
Tigran Petrosian
Emanuel Lasker
Bobby Fischer
Alexander Alekhine
Vasily Smyslov
Mikhail Tal
Mikhail Botvinnik
Max Euwe
Wilhelm Steinitz

I don't really like the computer's list. First of all, there are good moves in a position and great moves, not just right ones and errors. Also there are positions even the computer doesn't "understand". So I'll take Fischer's list!

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It's hard to argue against Fischer's, that's for sure. I also think people here need to give Kasparov the credit he deserves. Americans have a somewhat romanticized view of Bobby Fischer because he's "our guy", so to speak, but Kasparov was more dominant in his prime than any other player has been, even when Fischer was in his own. Not to mention Kasparov had a stranglehold on the chess world all the way from 1985 until 2000, when he lost to Kramnik. He also became the youngest undisputed world champion in history as a 22 year-old in 1985.

Objectively, there isn't a strong argument to say that Fischer's greatness exceeded that of Kasparov.

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Those are good points that you make, especially with our romantized view of Fischer. I would concede that Kasparov is one of the greatest players ever, most definately in the top five of most everyone's list.

But I will restate my previous comment about Fischer's 11-0 sweep of the US Championship in 1963. To my knowledge, no one has ever duplicated that feat in any national championship. Simply stunning...

Fischer's sweep of Taminov, Larsen and the first two games of the Petrosian match will never be equaled,,,,,,ever. That and his 0-2 comeback against Spassky in the 1972 World Championship is something that Karpov, Kasparov, etc. will never be able to equal.



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Well, that's an opinion. Actually, at ICC, the world's biggest internet chess club, discussions about Fischer are generally "banned" because they pretty much boil down to quarrels about opinions: some think Fischer was the best one ever, others think Kasparov, still others think Karpov, or Botvinnik, or Capablanca, etc.
However, if one follows the history of chess and how the game has evolved it becomes pretty apparent that Kasparov, compared to Fischer, took the game to the next level. This means of course that the best players of today, such as Anand, Carlsen and why not Nakamura, will take the game to yet another level.

As for the perfect score: others such as Capablanca and Alekhine also had tournaments with perfect scores. And the matches against Taimanov and Larsen: Taimanov could well have led the match after three games by 2,5-0,5, then we would most likely have seen another result of their match. Larsen, the second best western player at the time, still was a bit erratic now and then. And lastly, these are matches, not tournaments. One can imagine Taimanov's frustration after having squandered good positions in the first three games and probably never felt like putting up much of a fight during the rest of the match.

I don't try to belittle Fischer, I admire him and just finished his book "My 60 memorable games". It's just that we have to put things in perspective when comparing him to other great players, such as Botvinnik being a three-time world champion and Kasparov dominating the chess scene from 1985 and ca 15 years onwards, all the while during extreme competition.

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You are right, it is an opinion, and I hope that you don't take umbrage,but so is yours. Fischer's 11-0 run was in a NATIONAL championship. Also, prior to the matches with Taimanov and Larsen, Fischer had won the final six games of a South American tournamnet (iirc). Winning 19 straight games at a grandmaster level will never be repeated, ever, and that,imho, makes Fischer the greatest ever.

I would agree with you that Kasparov has taken the game to another level. Botvinnik being champion three times was also an impressive achievment, but it is important to remember that he automatically qualified for a rematch after losing to Smyslov and Tal instead of the grueling Candidates's Interonal tournaments and subsequent matches. And don't forget the Soviet prearranging draws amongst themselves to preserve their strength against non-Soviet players.

BTW, had any player aside from Fischer put three losses in a games collection before ? It says a lot about his integrity and dedication to the game.

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Kasparov and a few others have passed Fischer's top FIDE numeric rating, but there's some inflation involved, and it HAS been 35+ years. I really don't think that anyone was so far above the competition as Fischer.

Once he made up his mind to get the title, he stormed through the interzonal tournament, he shut out Taimanov and Larsen (who must've been Top 10 or 12 at worst), and he decisively beat Petrosian, "the toughest man in the world to beat." His score against Spassky was 7-2, if you ignore the forfeit.

Fischer in 1972 was in a class by himself. I think he'd have beat Karpov, and even at an advanced age, he'd have found a way to beat Kasparov. (Remember, K and K against each other were damn near even after 100+ games, with lots and lots of draws.)

Too bad he went crazy, or crazier.

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My point is simply that it's impossible to tell who was/is the greatest chess player of all time. It's the same as asking who the best footballer is, Pele, Maradona or why not Messi? I have the feeling, but can't know for certain of course, that if you ask 100 chess players who the greatest of all time is then Kasparov would get the most votes, but not by much.

Winning 19 straight games if of course impressive. Steinitz had a 25-game winning streak (although I won't argue that Steinitz was better than Fischer). Tal had two undefeated streaks, 86 and 95 games respectively.

A 11-0 score in the US championship is great but I'm uncertain as to the strength of the opposition. The US has never struck me as a chess country that has had "many" (by many let's say more than five, or more than three even) world class players at any given time. You can't compare it to to Russian Championship and for instance, this year the Netherlands Championship had a higher average rating than the US Championship did.

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He WAS the greatest player of all time

yes, you could say that top modern chess play a better game, but if Fischer had lived in modern times, then he would have had these resources available to him too, making him a better player than the rest

the fact remains, no one will ever play chess with such high stakes as when Bobby Fischer won the world championship

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<<"We are tall today because we stand on the shoulders of giants". And the biggest "giant" of them all? Bobby Fischer!>> well put and I agree 100%!

I'm a FIDE Master from Romania (current ELO rating 2344) and I've played (and drawn most of the time, never won and lost 1-2 games) against a few 2600s in my career (most recently Mircea Parligras, who made it to Round 3 at the latest World Cup, who I drew with Black, earlier this year, after a hard-fought game), plus I've seen a number of 2700 players in action (and analyzed for a bit with at least one that was close to that figure at the time), so I can lay claim to having some knowledge of what a strong player means these days. Personally I'd add to that the fact that I've read (and analyzed many games from) Kasparov's books on his predecessors more than once (his books giving wonderful
insights into the world of top class chess from every decade) but I guess they're too recently published for people to have such a high opinion of them as I do yet.
Anyway, the idea is that, knowing all that I do, I personally still consider Fischer to be the most dominant (this point can be proven mathematically) and even best overall player of all time, due to the incredible accuracy of his calculation, his impeccable understanding of the game, his amazing endgame technique, the very, very low frequency of mistakes in his games, his unbreakable will and, of course, his outstanding opening preparation (which, if he had been born more recently, would easily have been adjusted to modern requirements, thanks to his tremendous capacity for effort, making him an even better prepared player than Kasparov, IMO). He is the player whose style I admire the most.
However, as Vespassian anticipated, I would have to say that, having talked to many fellow chessplayers (including Grandmasters) the generally prevailing opinion among them is that Kasparov is the best ever. I attribute that to their underestimating the magnitude of rating inflation, their overestimation of the development of chess theory and its importance toward the general level of play - having watched hundreds, perhaps thousands of recent top GM games I can honestly say they ALL make AT LEAST as many mistakes under pressure as Fischer did in his time, even though their opening and endgame play might be slightly more accurate - and their failure to place enough importance on the context issue (meaning that they should think of Fischer's strength as a function of his calculating ability, positional understanding and his theoretical preparation IN RELATION TO the material and knowledge available at the time). Had Fischer been born, say, in the 1970s, he would have had the full benefit of today's knowledge and means of preparation which, coupled with his legendary capacity for effort and his natural talent, would, as the previous poster observed, have made him a player almost impossible to beat - that's just my opinion but I think it's pretty hard to argue against it. Obviously, most of the people I've spoken to about this are probably way more intelligent than I am, but I just think they haven't really given the issue as much thought as I have. I'll be open to changing my opinion in the future if somebody who has will refute my arguments (or at least most of them) or bring forth others in favor of some other player, be it Kasparov or not, which would trump my own.
Now, to address some of the aspects brought up in this thread:
- Morphy seems to have been slightly more talented than Fischer, so I agree that had he been born in today's world he could have (depending on the amount of work he would have been willing to put in - today talent is clearly not enough anymore) become even greater than Bobby;
- if we take absolute (and by this I mean inflation adjusted) ELO ratings from the late 1960's to the present time, Bobby Fischer's peak is the highest at 2785 - July 1972 - (there was no noticeable inflation up until 1986), Kasparov's is 2764 - January 1990 (so not even close); then comes Karpov (2725 in 1978 and 1980). Had ratings been calculated in their times, Capablanca, Lasker or Botvinnik may have surpassed Fischer's absolute peak, since Arpad Elo calculated their best 5-year average as being 2725/2720/2720, which would indicate their peak was definitely higher (unless they would have held steady at exactly 2725/2720 for 5 consecutive years, which is very unlikely). Yet it's not clear if they did ever pass 2785, as that is, after all, 60 points higher. In recent years inflation has been about 140-50 points, which means it's out of the question that any contemporary players will get to (a real) 2785 any time soon.
It should be noted that even Chessmetrics (as I write) gives Fischer as the highest rated player ever according to 1-year peaks (Kasparov overtakes him if the period is extended, but that was to be expected given the quite short duration of Fischer's stint at the very top of the chess world):
#1 Bobby Fischer 2881 1972-Jan through 1972-Dec
#2 Garry Kasparov 2879 1990-Jan through 1990-Dec
#3 Mikhail Botvinnik 2871 1946-Jan through 1946-Dec
#4 José Capablanca 2866 1919-Jan through 1919-Dec
#5 Emanuel Lasker 2863 1894-Jan through 1894-Dec;
- perfect scores have been achieved by other great players but NEVER against such strong competition as Fischer (his opponents in the US Championship he won 11-0 had an average rating of around 2450-2500, I would estimate, with players like Evans, Reshevsky, Benko, the Byrnes, Saidy, Bisguier, Addison and Mednis all playing, while Larsen and Taimanov were both around or over 2600, and we're not talking today's highly inflated ratings, so that's like 2750 in our times);
- "Winning 19 straight games at a grandmaster level will never be repeated, ever" except if inflation keeps going up, in which case Grandmaster level could very well mean something like a 2200-2300 average in absolute ratings soon, and therefore it wouldn't be so hard to make perfect scores at that level anymore. So we're really talking about top Grandmaster level, I guess;
- Yes, Kasparov did take the game to a new level, but so did Fischer in his day (Kasparov himself recognizes this and even dedicates an entire volume to the revolution started mainly by Fischer) and I see no reason to assume he wouldn't have also done that (in some other way) in the late '80s, had that been his time.

Sorry this is such a long message, but I feel very strongly about the issue of Fischer being the best player ever or not. I've not yet seen the documentary but I've been anxiously awaiting its release and will surely watch it as soon as I can.

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Fantastic post sir. Congratulations on your successful chess career and astute, levelheaded analysis of a debate that Fischer usually seems to get the short straw in, regardless of his surreal strength over the board.

I'd love to hear your take on what sort of playing style Fischer leaned toward. Apart from vague characterizations by Kasparov like "dynamic" I have not heard a lot of clear ideas about Fischer's style and preference. Some people say he was wide open and took chances, others say he was cool and conservative -- and others contend that he had no preferred style at all. This contrasts with our clear impressions of other chess greats (admittedly oversimplified through legend and the passing of time) such as Petrosian the defender, Tal the attacker, Karpov the consistent grinder, etc.

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Thank you!
As Kasparov well puts it, the most distinctive feature of Fischer's style was clarity, which he always strove for. He didn't like wild, irrational positions as much and generally avoided them. His results in this type of position weren't as good. In that sense, Kasparov seems to lean towards describing Fischer as a predominantly positional player, which is probably accurate. But, as all great masters do in the end (and perhaps even more so than most of them), Fischer played according to the requirements of the position and that's why, apart from his many positional masterpieces (and, of course, his brilliant opening ideas), he has also left us many amazing combinations and it is normal that people remember him for that more than for his positional ability, since combinations and attacks on the King are so much more memorable in their nature.
Therefore, of those you mentioned, the contention that he had no preferred style at all is the most accurate, I would say. He just played good moves, as he himself put it at one point - and he was the best at doing that.
It's hard to compare Fischer to any of the other great players before him, but there are similarities between his play and, for instance, the play of Magnus Carlsen, the current highest ranked player in the world. Fischer was equally strong in all phases of the game and in almost all types of positions, which I would say proves how far ahead of his time he was, since this is practically the definition of the modern Grandmaster.
I'll just stop here - there's no way I can cover this topic in a single post, there's far too much to write. I think I've pointed out the essential aspects of my opinion on the subject.

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Thanks. Despite having studied the game most of my life, I'm a lousy player in competetion, but I'm delighted that you agree with me for the most part.

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I am an amateur chess player and forgive my ignorance but I don't understand how someone (or a documentary) can determine who was the 'best' in chess. If we speak of a certain period, yes a world tournament can give the answer for that period but how can we compare two different chess players from two different eras to make a precise definition as 'best'?Maybe in another sport, where the success is measurable like world records such as running 100 meters in whatever seconds, we can probably say who is the best of all time, but in a sport like chess, can we really do that? And more importantly why we have to label one single player as 'best' instead of describing a bunch of them as 'one of the best'?
It is like saying 'best actor of all time'. Really? How can you say that? Who can decide that? Can we measure? Maybe saying 'one of the best actor of all time' a better idea?
I don't refer acmilan03c1's post by the way, on the contrary I read his post with a big attention and respect and loved it!

My blog, Best Robbery / Heist Movies
http://bestrobberyheistmovies.blogspot.com/

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31 Dec 1995 – "By this measure, I consider him the greatest world champion." Kasparov on the gap between Fischer & his contemporaries...
Of course, Kasparov may have changed his opinion in the meantime, but none of his writings since indicate that.
That's the first thing I'm claiming. The second is that Fischer would also have been/become the best player had he been born in any other time period but, of course, that's impossible to prove (or disprove), at least as far as I know (who knows if there's isn't some mad scientist somewhere sitting on some unthinkable invention that would make that possible).
Of course we can't KNOW, but we can argue about it and come up with theories. Nobody can ever be sure, one way or another, and we can say "one of the best", sure, but where's the fun in that? It's much more stimulating to make up lists, bring forth arguments... It's hard to argue about whether somebody is "one of the best" or not, because there are no clear guidelines (maybe there should be, but that's another discussion), but one can certainly debate long hours over who is THE best.
Fischer liked clarity and so do I! :) That's another reason why I like to think there is a best of all time, even if by a very narrow margin. There should be - identical things don't really exist in nature; we just don't have the means (yet?!) to be sure who it is/was.
Cheers

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@acmilan03c1
No, sir, as I said I wasn't referring your post or any other person's who had an argument. As you said very well, it is fun to argue on it. Plus very educating. On the contrary I always would like to read arguments on similar topics to learn more.
I just can't stand a TV show (I am not referring a documentary which argues) who pops up and the animator yells to the camera by saying X person is the best of all time. I mean I can't stand easily labeling somebody, good or bad, worsely as the best or the worst.


My blog, Best Robbery / Heist Movies
http://bestrobberyheistmovies.blogspot.com/

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Well, even cinema is a commercial enterprise and radical statements sell better. It is kind of annoying (unless you can get used to it) but it's understandable.

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Casablanca in Chess Fundamentals.

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Casablanca in his Chess Fundamentals

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Why did he leave out Lasker?

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[deleted]

Definitely one of the best. He was brilliant throughout his career.

As for computers eclipsing humans, when you have the best players in the world relying on computers to think for them, it's no surprise that machines are beating them. But there'll be a day when a Morphy or a Fischer will emerge and bring the heart and soul back into Chess, the romance really, and dominate the game once again, elevating it and bringing it back to the limelight.

After all... tomorrow is another day.

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