to ensure that everyone at the counter finishes at the same time. Uh, no thank you. What nonsense. Women eat sushi just as fast, and at $350 for dinner, they're entitled to the same portions. Does Jiro make allowances for big, tall women and skinny little men like himself? Of course not. Anyway, the comment casts light on the sexism that was rampant at the time Jiro grew up and which prevails to a shocking degree in Japan even today.
shareThank god you're on top of this! You really need to go give Jiro a lecture on sexism and feminism. I'm sure he'd appreciate it.
shareIt's a perfectly apt comment for a message board and I couldn't care less what Jiro would or would not appreciate.
shareJiro would not hire a woman sushi chef either. In fact, no one does. Their body temperature is higher than a man's, so no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
If you don't like it, then you don't have to eat there.
LOOOOL!!!!
Women bleed. Men normally do not.
my vote history:
http://www.imdb.com/user/ur13767631/ratings
If you didn't notice this movie takes place in a different country where they have different culture and values that they live by. I'm sorry this upsets you and your liberal agenda.
Feminists will complain about anything.
I agree with you MrBanzai, but they aren't complaining because they are feminists. I worry what comes to your mind when you think of feminism.
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Feminism is about humanism and equity, which is exactly what my post addresses.
shareExactly. The excuses some people will make to justify inequality against women is frightening. This sushi is not cheap! Women are paying the same but receiving less, and just because some women participate in the ritual, doesn't make it right. (Heck, they might not even realize they are paying the same but getting less.) Jiro could easily:
Serve the women first--they'll have a head start on the men and all can finish at the same time.
Serve the women less, and charge them less.
Have male-only & female-only parties--voluntary, of course.
There. The integrity of the so-called experience is maintained and everyone is treated equally.
Is giving women larger portions of sushi going to change the world in a major way? No. But this practice is a symptom of a larger problem that doesn't stop with sushi and anyone who doesn't see that is being willfully dense. And there is NO WAY men would put up with this if the roles were reversed.
Ravage the land as never before, total destruction from mountain to shore!
You don't know that he doesn't charge them less. Very early in the film there's a discussion with a customer that reveals that the price is not fixed, it fluctuates daily. It's perfectly reasonable to think that he might also adjust the price slightly to account for slightly smaller portions.
And of course, none of the dining party noticed it until it was explained to them, so the discrepancy obviously isn't a vast one. It's possible he's simply moderating the size of the sushi to account for slightly smaller mouths so that they can eat it in one bite as intended.
Life is not the opposite of Death, Death is the opposite of Birth. Life is eternal.
-Anathema
He didn't worry enough at the time
shareMauritania has a different culture and values which include slavery, MrBanzai04. I suppose you look upon that with equanimity as well.
Feminists will complain about anything
Liberal agenda? You lost a lot of credibility when you threw that nonsense into your comment.
shareGet out of here with that feminism crap.
Check out my videos! http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=FilmMiracle
No substantive comment? How would you like it if he decided to make the sushi pieces slightly smaller for Koreans, allegedly because sushi is a Japanese innovation and thus easier and quicker for Japanese to consume?
I think the rationale he employs regarding his female patrons has about as much validity.
In fact, when you think about it, I'll bet you Jiro has a far higher estimation of what women's mouths can accommodate in, shall we say, other venues.
So much unthinking hypocrisy on this thread.
Actually, Japan is sexist. So and South Korea.
But when it comes to Jiro's decision of preparing smaller portion for women I think he is right.
I mean, the guy has 70 years of experience backing every decision he makes.
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He is right that women eat sushi at a significantly slower pace than do men and that these gender differences trump individual differences in rates of sushi consumption? (i.e. quick eaters vs. slow eaters regardless of gender)
Nonsense.
I think the idea is that eating there is an experience...beyond just stuffing your face. I sure when your typical overweight Western woman stops by, he gives her larger portions.
shareThere is certainly, as you say, "an experience beyond stuffing your face."
The question is, if it is so aesthetically vital for all diners at his counter to finish at the same time, why he doesn't quiz patrons beforehand on their eating styles? Because that would be silly, that's why.
By the same token, it's patently absurd to suggest that all women, regardless of build, etc, will take more time to finish the same sushi portions as all men. Or for that matter, to imply that all men will finish the same sized meal at the same time.
I sure when your typical overweight Western woman stops by, he gives her larger portions.
I'm with you Newt. It's simply indefensible to sell one group of people a lesser product for the same price. How anyone can be dismissive of the blatant and outrageous discrimination there is beyond me, but then, the world is full of idiots.
shareI was just checking out imdb for this film as I'm interested in watching it, and found this highly entertaining thread!
Newt - I think you are missing the point here. The Japanese regard food and eating as nearly ritualistic, and as you mentioned in your original post, his goal is 'to ensure that everyone at the counter finishes at the same time'. I would think that in his years of experience, he has simply adjusted the portion sizes to achieve this goal. If women did indeed eat sushi just as fast as you suggest, wouldn't they then finish their small portions sooner than the male counterparts, and defeat his goal?
It's easy to suggest that he is generalising, but he is running a business, where generalisations have to be made - he cannot cater for every individual. I am sure if you asked him for a normal sized portion, he would not refuse on the grounds of your gender. And in my personal experience, women do have smaller appetites than men, and require a lower calorie intake. It's just biology - I can think of many of my female friends who would be grateful for smaller portion sizes so they can finish their meal (though actually I would be happy for them to have full portions as normal I get their leftovers!)
Xanxei Isn't it a bit over the top to claim it is 'selling one group of people a lesser product for the same price' - I'm sure the quality is of the same standard. Are you suggesting that fat people should pay more for their clothing because they use more material?
Thanks for the respectful rebuttal.
Newt - I think you are missing the point here. The Japanese regard food and eating as nearly ritualistic,
and as you mentioned in your original post, his goal is 'to ensure that everyone at the counter finishes at the same time'. I would think that in his years of experience, he has simply adjusted the portion sizes to achieve this goal.
And in my personal experience, women do have smaller appetites than men, and require a lower calorie intake. It's just biology - I can think of many of my female friends who would be grateful for smaller portion sizes so they can finish their meal (though actually I would be happy for them to have full portions as normal I get their leftovers!)
Cool but this is Japan and an 86 year old chef who will always live by the customs and ideals of when he was younger. I'm sorry sexism is happening in Japan but women are still paying for it and they're not complaining. Why should you be complaining about something that you've never had and does not affect you in a completely different country?
Complaining about it on an internet message board of all places is not helping your cause.
Well, I doubt you're all cut up about sexism in Japan if you follow up with the observation that women "are still paying for it and they're not complaining." Actually, many of them do complain and, notwithstanding the underdevelopment of Japanese civil society in general, the Japanese woman's movement has gained momentum since the 1980s. The progress made toward equality is relative, but gains have been made and the trend has been toward greater empowerment of women.
To recap, my OP was simply a personal reaction, an expression of revulsion to what I was watching, the same as literally millions of other messages posted on IMDb over the years.
But I'll answer your broader question - why anyone would complain about the situation of others - with another question. How can you NOT complain if you have empathy? Empathy is essential if we are to live in a democratic, civil society. So is an appreciation for equity, whether the subjects of concern are related to you or not. In Nazi Germany, people largely minded their own business, did as they were told, and believed that injustice to others was none of their concern. In the Deep South, most whites felt similarly about the injustices of slavery and post-slavery oppression of blacks. How well did that work out? No, MrBanzai04, those who don't adhere to universal values and don't empathize with others are people who obstruct the emergence of a more humane, democratic world. Empathy should be a natural reflex for any civilized human being. What a shame that you're deficient in this regard.
Complaining about it on an internet message board of all places is not helping your cause.
You're comparing a sushi chefs smaller portions to nazi germany. You have issues.
shareAnd apparently you have memory lapses. You asked a general question:
Why should you be complaining about something that you've never had and does not affect you in a completely different country?
Hear hear! How eloquently you explained that!
shareXanxei Isn't it a bit over the top to claim it is 'selling one group of people a lesser product for the same price' - I'm sure the quality is of the same standard. Are you suggesting that fat people should pay more for their clothing because they use more material?
Just a clarification for the record:
<i>Are you suggesting that fat people should pay more for their clothing because they use more material?</i>
This practice has been common in America for roughly a decade. Check internet clothing outlets (Cafepress is an obvious choice) that have a very wide array of sizes--for anything above XL, or in some cases anything above XXL, and you'll see "(Add [x])" next to the size, where x is usually $2-$3.
So I don't know whether that's what he was suggesting or not, but offensive or not, your parallel is increasingly common practice IRL--so maybe not the best analogy...
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You have to realize that in Japan, food such as the sushi Jiro was creating is not valued by the amount you receive but on the quality and taste. So in essence everyone was receiving the same quality of sushi just in different portions.
share
While I am sure there is some sexism involved, he is after all a very old japanese man, if he is tailoring his sashimi to the customer it really does matter how big their mouth is since you are supposed to eat the whole thing at once. That's part of the experience. All the flavors have to hit simultaneously and it can't be either too much or too little; it has to be just right. Women on average probably have smaller mouths because they are physically smaller, again on average, in all respects.
None of the women seemed the least bit upset by this. In fact they seemed overjoyed.
It also makes me happy, for were I to ever sit down at his bar I would expect humungous chunks of fish ^_^