MovieChat Forums > Xin hai ge ming (2011) Discussion > Why all this new found love for National...

Why all this new found love for Nationalist China?

posted 13 years ago by roycant07
16 replies | jump to latest

Is this film Taiwanese? I am surprised the CCP would even allow a film about Nationalist China.

Seems like China is totally abandoning Communism and treading back to it's Nationalist Republic phase.

Next they'll be praising Chang Kai Shek!

But nationalist China was horribly repressive. Reading Mao's journals (before he himself became dictator) Chinese cities were warlord operated, slumlord dominated, hellholes where half the population were addicted to opium. The rural areas were filled starvation and every year there was a famine. Yes, there was a famine under Mao too but only one where under Nationalist China there was one almost every year!

This is not to praise Mao at all, but his regime was only marginally better by comparison and it surpries me a Chinese language film would be praising the Nationalist revolution.

[–] stranger-carrie 13 years ago

Well, guess getting rid off the Manchu royal family's regime is one (of the few？) common ground for nationalist and communists.

[–] roycant07 13 years ago

I understand. I guess it's like how Communist Cuba praises Joe Marti.

[–] Storm_Thunder_Infantry 13 years ago

But nationalist China was horribly repressive. Reading Mao's journals (before he himself became dictator) Chinese cities were warlord operated, slumlord dominated, hellholes where half the population were addicted to opium. The rural areas were filled starvation and every year there was a famine. Yes, there was a famine under Mao too but only one where under Nationalist China there was one almost every year!
================================================================================

Unlike Mao and China after the Nationalists, Chiang and his government had rather limited influence outside the urban centers they had a presence in. They simply didn't have the resources, manpower, authority and support to come close to Mao's level. It's a wonder why warlords remained about, even with the Northern Expedition reunifying the country as a whole.

Do note that famines were just as common before the Nationalists even came to power and it was more of an issue that was inherited - not something that was caused by themselves (given the CCP and Qing couldn't fix the starvation issue themselves, the Nationalists were no different anyway). With all the prior conflicts like the Boxer Rebellion and foreign presence, one would note that the situation was even worse before the Nats came about.

Even during WW2, the Nationalists had the warlords united only to find that they were of very questionable loyalty - there were plenty of internal issues that prevented the NRA from being a fully efficient fighting force.

Ultimately, Chiang was simply more or less, a very unlucky ruler with the most unluckiest situations any government wouldn't want in such a short time period: a civil war, invasion from a regional power, lack of political influence, questionable loyalty, exile, post-war administration weakening among the ruins etc. Mao didn't have to worry so much from those issues. That's an undeniable fact.

I don't know the details regarding the opium issue but it was already prevalent in China since the 17th century and worsened considerably thanks to the British in the 19th century.

================================================================================
I am surprised the CCP would even allow a film about Nationalist China.

Seems like China is totally abandoning Communism and treading back to it's Nationalist Republic phase
================================================================================
Modern China's foundation roots back to the Nationalists - even the CCP has to acknowledge that since they do after all, govern modern China. Even then, China was more lenient to being a Stalinist communist country - and split from the USSR since Krueshchev.

The movie alone is also high profile considering Jackie Chan is the director and is an international celebrity. I wouldn't be surprised if the man is even good pals with Hu Jintao.

Let the world change the punishment for sexual-related crimes to execution

[–] roycant07 13 years ago

...understanding the complex historical social conditions people you like went through, like Chiang Kai Shek, but are all about disregarding the same analysis to people you do dislike like Mao, Stalin, etc.

Apparently, the USSR did not also go through a revolution, WWI, a Civil War, foreign invasion (by the USA too I may add), terrorism, sabotage, WWII, fascist onslaught, then Cold War.

It's no wonder the country was run under a permanent war state leaving the bureaucrats in charge paranoid of any dissent. Same goes for a lot of the Marxist states like Cuba and Vietnam.

Point is, that was a really good analysis of Chiang Kai Shek's Republic, a good materialist perspective. Yet, when it comes to analyzing Communist nations, you guys resort to non-materialist analysis; "oh they were just evil"(as if nations are run on morality), "Stalin and Mao were in full control, so only they are at fault" (as if a whole nation is ever really run by one person), "it's because Communism is faulty, so their states were doomed" (as if ideals really guide nations).

Shek had the West behind him like most banana republic client states. What went wrong?

Mao had no one, not even the USSR, and made considerable enemies of most nations. Yet, he still managed to provide better living standards to the Chinese than Chiang Kai Shek.

Not that Mao's China was paradise but at least it was a marginial upgrade from Chiang's Republic.

[–] nogard64 13 years ago

maybe you need to look up the definition of DICTATOR! yeah when you live under a dictatorship, it kinda is that person's fault when things go badly, its basically the meaning of the word. To dictate to have sole rule over a country.

http://hemestate.blogspot.com/

-things I write on IMDB may come from my blog

[–] ash341986 13 years ago

I think you cannot judge how they governed only by reading Mao's journals. Mao and Chiang had some kind of personal problems against each other. In Taiwan we study in our history textbooks that Mao and his followers joined Kuomingtang under the command of the USSR. Dr. Sun Yat-Sen knew it but he kept them in the party anyway (and the strategy can be roughly translated into English as "allying with Russia and tolerating the Communists"). However, Chiang Kai-Shek probably (I say probably because that's what my history teacher in junior high school used to say) thought these guys could be dangerous to the party, so he got on his work to kick those Communists out of Kuomingtang.

[–] roycant07 13 years ago

Mao and Chiang never met when he was a wrong reporter/researcher on the countryside. And he was documenting life in China not really commenting on Chiang's rule.

[–] nighthawk936 13 years ago

Another thing is that while CCP and KMT have their own fights, neither can/will ever even dispute the fact that Dr. Sun Yat-Sen will always be the heroic Father of Nation of modern Chinese civilization. Dr. Sun is the indisputable figure for all people of Chinese heritage, regardless of political differences, who we're all always proud of.

Mainland Chinese recognizes Sun, we in HK recognizes and praises Sun, and certainly our brothers in Taiwan and elsewhere will always embrace Sun.

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] nogard64 13 years ago

you put down Chang Kai Shek but you fail to point out, he really didn't have full control of the country yet.

when the nationalist came to Taiwan do you know how fast and how quickly they flourished and prospered?

China thinks they are so prosperous now and doing so well, too bad Taiwan had that back in late 1960's while Mao was still trying to figure out how to smelt pots and pans into Planes.

What Mao did to China was a joke! It was a huge travesty, millions died under his rule under his hands, its appalling anyone would praise him, it wasn't until after his death, Deng who took over was the one who was more practical and slowly took china out of the STONE AGES!

http://hemestate.blogspot.com/

-things I write on IMDB may come from my blog

[–] chi_hien 13 years ago

"when the nationalist came to Taiwan do you know how fast and how quickly they flourished and prospered?

China thinks they are so prosperous now and doing so well, too bad Taiwan had that back in late 1960's while Mao was still trying to figure out how to smelt pots and pans into Planes."

well duh!! its much more easy to make an island with a population of just 13 million flourished and prosperous than a country with a population of 700 million. china's economic achievements during the last 3 decades can never be matched, including the fact that they lifted more people out of poverty than any other country in the world.

[–] roycant07 13 years ago

Chiang Kai Shek could not unify the majority of the nation, his cities were plagued with warlordism, rental slumlords, high crime, drug addiction (even kids), and eventually had to deal with Imperial Japan, which he then needed Communist assistence.

Chiang could not stop the continous famines that would occur every year in China. Mao did, of course a big one hit him the first time he tried to do anything about it.

Mao though was not without some major faults and that was crushing dissent. He was brutal about that.

Now China is now reverting back to it's Nationalist phase.

[–] Storm_Thunder_Infantry 13 years ago

and eventually had to deal with Imperial Japan, which he then needed Communist assistence.
================================================================================
The Communists hardly did anything caused strategic losses on the Japanese - in fact, the total number of CCP troops during the whole war was in fact, very tiny when compared to the NRA, which had to fight tens to hundreds of thousands of Japanese troops in every battle.

If anything, the communist forces efforts led to a major backfire when the Japanese unleashed the Three Alls Policy into the areas they operated in.

Let the world change the punishment for sexual-related crimes to execution

[–] nighthawk936 13 years ago

I think he also ignored all the white-scares and curfews that Chiang had imposed.

[–] dont_b_so_BBC 13 years ago

you put down Chang Kai Shek but you fail to point out, he really didn't have full control of the country yet.

You try to make excuses for Chiang but fail to point out WHY he never got the country under control (even his own KMT members rebelled against him)....

when the nationalist came to Taiwan do you know how fast and how quickly they flourished and prospered?

Well, Taiwan was small enough for him to exert dictatorial/military control (after he destroyed or imprisoned all his dissenters)-- and is probably the "limit" for a man of his talents....

If you care enough to go around telling people you don't care... you obviously care.

[–] roycant07 13 years ago

Not to mention the ample support from the West, while China was dealing with political struggle between the US and the USSR.