Creepy - Shut Up Little Man! An Audio Misadventure (2011) Discussion

[–] coex23 12 years ago

putting things in context: when these recordings first came out, they were fascinating and hilarious. and they came out in a time when cassette tapes of weird things were being passed around, including the likes of the jerky boys, etc.

now, this doc dramatizes the recordings (they did a pretty decent job with that!) and show real photos, and then interview the people that did the recordings. I think this all puts a human face on everything and the humorous edge suddenly fades away.

essentially, while I really liked the recordings in 1993 (or whenever I first heard them), I am now disturbed that no one reached out to help, and that these sad guys are still being exploited for others entertainment.

and Clowes... he hasn't done anything of real value since Ghostworld ruined his reputation.

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[–] marymorrissey 12 years ago

thank you mdb3. honestly it's appalling that there are no critical points of view of this film among the reviews. I'm about to rectify that situation. honestly this movie made me sick these hipsters the lot of them are so disgusting with their earnest post ironic *beep* it was indeed disappointing to see the ghost world guy involved in this pretty much sharing the gleeful schadenfreude that has know that people were impressed with your clever wordplay?" the deep structure of which is, "
I'll get this pickelbrained homo to sign over the rights for 10 bucks, 100 at the most if I have to cut of my own manhood and shove it up my own girlhood."

when you get down to it, people seem to be more disgusting than ever and this film pretty much has got the zeitgeist up the wazoo...

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[–] JAngell4444 10 years ago

Is this a troll village gathering? Youre all echoing the same opinion and it still doesnt mean its correct... What the *beep* are all you babbling about? Really??
It is a solid documentary.

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[–] bowery_boy 12 years ago

I wholeheartedly agree.

I think this point was hammered home to me when one of the guys tells the story of how they met either Peter or Ray in a diner and offered him $200 (!!??) which he refused.

Then the guy as all, "I was a bit disappointed that he wouldn't take the money."

And my first thought was, "You were a bit disappointed that you couldn't alleviate your guilt with money."

I found the whole thing appalling and distasteful. It may have started off as a way of documenting threats Peter made towards the guys and it may have even been initially funny.

As the documentary progresses when the subject of morality comes up everyone kind of laughed it off by saying so what, it was funny.

And then towards the end I think it was Mitch who went to visit Peter and Ray's friend Tony, I think that was his name. He brings Tony money and a six pack of beer to bribe the guy to talk to him - a practically homeless social outcast psychologically damaged alcoholic.

So f---ing wrong.

It doesn't help that I presently live next door to a gay couple who are "professional alcoholics" like Ray and Peter. If they're not sreaming and yelling and banging things around then they're singing at the top of thier lungs.

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[–] dedoc1967 12 years ago

I agree with those above. As I was watching I was thinking, well, maybe I could see a couple of punk twenty-something college grads doing something like this for a (cruel) joke. But these guys are in their FORTIES now -- and still pushing it and trying to make a buck off those miserable dead neighbors. Good Lord. Is there no shame? Shouldn't they be arrested for illegally recording a private conversation and then profiting off it? Those recordings were not made on the street or in their own home (or even through the shared wall)... no, they shoved a microphone up against their window. I don't see how this is legal.

The whole documentary, while intermittently interesting, was more sad than anything else. Everyone associated with the project seemed to be either pathetic and/or a douche-bag. Eddie was vile, in particular.

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[–] phasmatrope 12 years ago

I agree with you all on the moral level-- it's understandable that these guys would be mischievously recording these conversations in their 20s; to see them still trying to profit off of them as adults is kinda pathetic (mainly though the idea that anyone could get away with doing a feature film on them-- I'm not even a lawyer, and I know that there's probably a whole ton of legal repercussions that could come outta that).

However, to play devil's advocate, they did try to confront these guys about how obnoxious it was-- and Ray threatened them (granted, they SHOULD have called the police at that point, and confronted their landlord and tried to break their lease). They--and the entire apartment complex, no doubt--were for that amount of time a captive audience to these drunkards' constant loud and inconsiderate fighting (and Ray and Peter CONTINUED to do it, after they'd been told it was obnoxious, and after they were aware that they were being recorded). At that point, it's hard to sympathize with them, either. You might not record AND distribute them if they were YOUR neighbors, but I can imagine you'd sure be upset about it.

I definitely agree though, that these guys with their nice houses had a obligation (moral or legal) to offer Tony AND Peter a lot more for their permission/story-- to show up at this aging guy's cramped studio apartment with a 6-pack of beer cans and $100 is completely insulting.

The filmmakers also missed a serious opportunity by showing/playing for either Peter or Tony one of the actual recordings: not being able to see their reactions--be it surprise, anger, nostalgia, amusement, or sadness-- to these professionally-packaged recordings of 10+ old plus drunken late-night arguments was a real letdown.

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[–] WarpedRecord 12 years ago

Very good points, Phasmatrope.

I must admit that I bought a CD of these rants in the '90s, and while I didn't find it funny, I found it amusing to a point. Now I think I'm part of the problem.

Certainly Eddie and Mitch were within their rights to set up a recorder in their own apartment to document Ray and Peter's arguments, especially if evidence were needed if police were ever involved. It surprises me that they never called police, but instead chose to egg them on, making prank phone calls and setting up a mike outside their windows.

At some point, however, Eddie and Mitch crossed the line. Was it when they shared the tapes with friends? Probably not. Was it when they sold the tapes? Possibly. Was it when they tried to pay off Peter (who refused their check, I might add, which in my book equals lack of consent), sold their neighbors' death certificates, and courted Hollywood studios to make a film? Definitely.

I was hoping this film would shed some light on who Ray and Peter were, how they became roommates, and how they died. There's very little of that here, though the filmmakers tried.

Instead, we're left with a story about successful men and their sycophants, 20-plus years on, trying to profit at the expense of their drunken neighbors. I don't understand why these tapes are such a laugh riot, the play looks horrible, and the other attempts at marketing are just exploitive. Creepy? Certainly, but I found it more depressing than anything else.

As for this film, it's a 5/10 at best because I learned a lot more about Eddie and Mitch than I learned about Ray and Peter, and I didn't like what I saw.

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[–] j_imdb-661 12 years ago

I found the rationalizations of those who exploited the tapes to be admirable.

It's a very clever piece of hokum.

I mean, of course everybody involved is totally full of sh_it with a capital 'S'.

Stick a mic in front of a couple of drunks and all of sudden every rancid piece of filth that flies out of their miserable mouths is pure comedy genius.

Yeah, right. That's a load of *beep*

Yet, at the same time, this is where art comes from.

Culture is truly of the people and by the people.

Just think, for example, one day in the 1600's, some Italian guy was walking around his town with a play he'd just written under his arm, and in the square was some fat Italian guy, singing in a foolish manner about, I dunno, Spaghetti. A crowd gathered around him, laughing their asses off. The guy with play says to himself, hey, what if I set my play to music and get this a-hole to sing it? I'll be rich!

And opera was born.

Spears Lover
http://img3361.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=23251_BritneyRy7_122_525lo .jpg

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[–] TheBeardedWonder 11 years ago

I can't tell if the post above mine is serious or not (I hope not), so i'll just ignore it for now. But for the sake of discussion, you've got to include every detail. Including the fact that they could hear them FROM THEIR HOUSE. Whatever I can hear from the comfort of my room becomes mine I believe.

If you're SO loud that I hear you all night every night, then anything that comes of it is fair game in my opinion. You told them to stop, they threatened to kill you, it's pretty simple at that point. I mean what if they were in public space like the hallway or outside or something, and did the recordings from there? Would it be any more legit? What's really the difference other than audio quality at that point? Also they KNEW they were being recorded by them, Pete and Ray acknowledged it on tape! They just didn't care then, so it's too late to want monetary compensation decades later.

Also these guys obviously have regular jobs as well, they're not making a whole lot off this. It's such a niche market at this point, that after shipping and material costs they're not really rolling in the dough from it.

I mean, do I really care whether these drunks, who forgot entirely about the whole ordeal, receive enough in royalties for their hate filled domestic squabbles I could hear from my room?

"dude i dont care i just love this movie you guys have a realy taste in movies what wrong with you"

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] TheBeardedWonder 11 years ago

The problem with that mentality is that it completely absolves Pete/Ray of any wrong doing, as if they're screaming and name calling EVERY NIGHT is OK and dandy as long as I don't record it. If you're neighbors were yelling every night and you asked nicely to stop and they threatened to kill you, you'd just go 'oh, OK, have a nice night' and leave it at that forever? Doubt it...

"Ugh, now i'm going to have to go online and look at turtles." - Michael Scott

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] TheBeardedWonder 11 years ago

Whoa whoa whoa, simmer down. When did I put words in your mouth? I asked a question, then said I doubt you'd be OK with that going on next door, which isn't anywhere near an attack either. Nobody would be OK living next to them, how am I attacking you by saying that? What do I sound confused about exactly too?

Yeah God forbid I switch the blame to the people who know, ARE to blame! Silly me. You're just letting them off the hook because you feel bad for them. They're bigoted drunks, how can you say they're the victims? Lord knows the first thing I wanna do when I move to a big city for the 1st time, and am looking for jobs and peers, is to spend hours and days on the phone tip lines HOPING i'm the one in a thousand that gets through.

You've never lived in SF i'm going to assume? Please don't act like that was an attack either. But that kind of stuff solves nothing in that city. You could spend weeks calling and walking into those places and get nowhere. I lived there for 6 years by the way.

Lastly, they didn't start this to make money, it was just for them and their friends to laugh at. But people were so drawn to it that they needed to ship it to people far away, which then evolved into selling them. You may not understand it, but the material was liked by enough people to spawn DOZENS of tapes, a play, a movie, and now a documentary. Sounds like enough people like it that maybe it's just not your thing, and passing judgments on those who do is petty and condescending. And to throw in that these alcoholic homophobes that scream all night are the ones who are the victims? We'll never see eye to eye on that one i'm afraid.

Also stop changing the thread title like you're witty, it's not adding anything...

"Ugh, now i'm going to have to go online and look at turtles." - Michael Scott

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] singanewsongtonight 11 years ago

What is the common factor on all these threads and forums that end up like this?

Give it some thought.

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[–] TheBeardedWonder 11 years ago

Hhhmm, you could be hinting at a million different things, on my part possibly as well. But I would guess it's Oscar and their inability to express themselves, which ends in 'goodbye' rather than discussion...

"Ugh, now i'm going to have to go online and look at turtles." - Michael Scott

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[–] singanewsongtonight 11 years ago

20 year history of yodeling rage when someone doesn't agree with him. Hundreds of threads, forums and websites shut down, erased and/or moderated. He's a legend in his own mind.

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[–] TheBeardedWonder 11 years ago

Haha, oh my. Makes sense though...

"Ugh, now i'm going to have to go online and look at turtles." - Michael Scott

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] TheBeardedWonder 11 years ago

Didn't you say goodbye already? To quote YOU: 'This isn't your forum to tell me how to use it.'

Also, I see you've HEAVILY edited your posts so they're not even the same theme anymore, so this whole discussing became meaningless at that point anyway...

"Ugh, now i'm going to have to go online and look at turtles." - Michael Scott

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] singanewsongtonight 11 years ago

If he tried,with all his might, if he drank coffee and exercised at the gym first, even if he gave himself a 15 hour nap, he could not POSSIBLY demonstrate his antisocial behavior as clearly as he does on this thread. The histrionic, borderline and narcissistic reaction to nearly everyone who posts anything (no matter how mild) who doesn't agree with his "king-esk" proclamations just screams personality disorder.

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[–] n8urst 11 years ago

The way these two young guys twisted and rationalized their actions was creepy. To make money off someone else without their knowledge or permission is not allowed in Law statues.

Ray and Pete knew they were being recorded - they saw the microphone at their window the very first time the young guys next door started recording them.

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[–] TheBeardedWonder 11 years ago

Right? That's exactly what I said, and it's what anyone with half a brain would realize. Despite this fact (that they ACKNOWLEDGE and microphone and proceed to curse at it), despite that their rants are homophobic hate filled diatribes, despite their alcoholic tendencies, despite the fact it was loud enough to hear from my room, and despite the fact that this was NOT started to make money, despite the fact this doesn't pay a lot (they have regular jobs, he didn't even have an office to ship out of or anything - it was from his house!), despite ALL of this - Pete and Ray are the victims and the dudes who did the recordings did so 'only to make a buck' 20 or so years later.

It makes me wonder if people who think this actually watched the movie...

"Ugh, now i'm going to have to go online and look at turtles." - Michael Scott

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] tomsmith65 11 years ago

I don't know about the rest of you, but I thought the film was about how these two guys kind of turned into their next door neighbors. As the film progressed they went from being two 80s hipsters who recorded their crazy neighbors for a laugh to a couple of cheap Hollywood creeps who were every bit as dysfunctional as the men they exploited. Karma tends to bite ya in the butt that way.

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[–] white-dunks 11 years ago

I don't know about the rest of you, but I thought the film was about how these two guys kind of turned into their next door neighbors. As the film progressed they went from being two 80s hipsters who recorded their crazy neighbors for a laugh to a couple of cheap Hollywood creeps who were every bit as dysfunctional as the men they exploited. Karma tends to bite ya in the butt that way.

You totally nailed it :)

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[–] Wilde_2015 9 years ago

I don't know about the rest of you, but I thought the film was about how these two guys kind of turned into their next door neighbors. As the film progressed they went from being two 80s hipsters who recorded their crazy neighbors for a laugh to a couple of cheap Hollywood creeps who were every bit as dysfunctional as the men they exploited. Karma tends to bite ya in the butt that way.

Perfect insight into how to take in this doc! I wonder whether the filmmaker did this intentionally? The prankers got pranked.

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[–] alsotiger7 10 years ago

It looks like we all agree that the guys who made the recordings are not the most empathetic of people. Okay, but if anyone has a critique of this documentary movie itself rather than just comments about the story that it's telling, it would be interesting to read. I, for one, thought the film was well-made and engaging. Anyone else?

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[–] 10 years ago

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