If your NOT american


Found this film, while well made, to be a good example of why so many in non american countries do not like the USA. The soldiers appeared to know very little about what was going on, and the reasons they were there, so gung-ho they really didnt seem to care, as long as they got some action and could go home a hero, and tell everyone how mighty the marine corp was.
While asking questions of the farmers the arrogance was overwhelming, These people are victims, stuck in the middle and want to be left alone to live their lives, it doesnt matter if they havent got I-Pads and mobile phones the americans seem to think you HAVE to have. All they wanted was for their kids to be safe.
Hearts and minds was well used by the british and then the americans in the past, it seems to have been modified so much as to make it utterly the opposite,
I understand this is criticism of the content of the film and not the actual film process etc, but if they wanted to make an impressive film, I believe they made a film that will only impress americans.
While i have sympathy for his injuries, and other serving soldiers deaths and injuries, I found the main character to be a complete jerk, who was quick to look for adulation/sympathy soon as he went to the supermarket, and showing off with his guns. does he think he is a gangsta. Didnt exactly come across as a candidate for mensa. Ive been a soldier and mixed with US forces in the 80s, they were NOT like that then. I feel they have gone downhill in terms of quality.

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"Your" not exactly a candidate for Mensa, either. Also, while it's true the flood gates opened for awhile to expand the ranks during the war, the military hasn't lessened in quality. The focus has simply shifted, and it will return to haircuts, liberty attire, and uniform inspections again after the wars have ended. Marines now are better trained, more informed, and better prepared than they were 20 years ago. Of course you'll always get a few rotten apples, but it's the exception that proves the rule.

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I wonder how many languages you do speak. fluently. never ever making spelling mistakes. oh you stupid americans, cannot understand that there are so many other countries and languages. far more important than yours.


sad. truly sad.

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You mad because your dumb *beep* boyfriend got kicked out of the army for being a gung ho? People hate Americans because of their government and their foreign policy and also because of the many dumb *beep* Americans who stand up for their dumb *beep* government policies.

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You also have to remember that this is coming form the point of view of one Solider. And the point of this documentary was not to impress, documentaries are made to inform of us a truth or reality(or at least a truth or reality with an accent from the author). Now, I didn't like this movie because it didn't inform, and it really didn't entertain or keep my attention. (Call me jaded, but I've seen a lot of war docs so the shooting, death and chaos don't grab me as much as a sensitized person would). The movie focusing on the one guy and his dealings with PTSD could of been a better documentary as I think that is, for some reason or another a completely taboo topic. I'm also close to the issue as my brother is in his second tour of duty and is dealing with PTSD too.

And you also can't look at one documentary and say the quality of the marines has gone way down, your seeing them in a very different time from your own and your seeing soldiers in situations that are pretty rare, chaotic, and once again different from your own. Your whole point of them about being "gung ho" and wanting to be the hero may have some truth, but as the Sergeant explained, that attitude changes and they do begin to see the point of their duty outside of just being killing machines(although that's what they said is the best answer for as to why they join the Marine).


There are a ton of ways to approach this problem of the American image, but it would be extremely ignorant to look at this one documentary as the text book definition of the US Armed forces and the kind of people that populate it.



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"Hearts and minds was well used by the british and then the americans in the past..."

Read history much?


"I can assure you my intentions are strictly honorable."

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I hope nobody it watching this film and thinking the lead figure's perspective is the same as every Marine and soldier in Afghanistan.

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I believe they made a film that will only impress americans.

I'm an American and I wasn't exactly impressed with the way things were being dealt with in Afghanistan, especially when talking to the local people in the villages they passed through. You shouldn't generalize these things.

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right

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So you think the intelligence you perceived of one soldier is indicative of the collective culture of America? If the world hates us for that, who is it that's being stereotyped? Overcapitalistic attitudes are sadly painful to have to endure, though hardly unique to just the USA (more rightly applied to some circles of the whole first world); but the truth is we're a country of over 300 million people, and just like all countries, all levels of intelligence and compassion exist in our citizenry. What gets plastered all over the media here & internationally are the easy fodder for criticism, just the same with Muslims on FOX News & Christians by the secular media. It's easier to make your partisan point if you tear down the other side by discrediting them with negative examples. Do those examples constitute the entire, or even the average attitude/aptitude of the group being profiled? Absolutely not. Your opinions fall in line with that kind of profiling.

Nowhere in this film does it show American soldiers telling the people of Afghanistan they need iPads & mobile phones. It shows young men stuck with the reality of the situation: America was drawn into this in retaliation for the regime that let al qaeda grow within its borders & oppresses its own people, but between guerrilla warfare, the complicity of the government of Pakistan & yes, the lack of cultural competence & collaboration by the leadership of the coalition on down has lead to a multiyear quagmire. Many people join the military because they feel they have no other option, not for the idea they can force a different culture to adopt their own. The soldiers in the film recognize that they're invading people's lives, but the alternative for them is to leave the townspeople to the Taliban insurgents. I'm not trying to apologize for the war, but you seem to have the mindset that the world is black & white and that you can pass simple judgements on woefully complex situations.

It's hateful for you to sit there and not see the subject as a human being, and understand the story from his perspective, and that is what the filmmaker asks the audience to do. Is he a "saint"? No, but who is.

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As a combat veteran diagnosed with PTSD myself, I related to this film & the people in it in ways you could NEVER begin to... Why don't you & all the others like you just skip watching films like this?? No, you wouldn't do that, would you?? Hell no you wouldn't, because then you wouldn't get the chance to play critic & viciously scrutinize America & the members of the American military, the members of the American military who put their lives on the line every goddamned day so punks like you can have & enjoy the FREEDOM to view any films you choose & then have the FREEDOM to speak your minds about them afterwards... What a punk you are... It's really very simple, you're just another Yankee Hater who's life I put Less than ZERO value upon, what I'd love to do right now is to borrow Nathan's pistolo & play a round or 2 of 'Spin of Death' with you... I might even rig the game to lessen your chances... Hell, I know I would :D

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Oh really. How many other countries would have the confidence to permit a journalist to be embedded with their front line infantry Marines and freely document the results? Very few, if any. That alone contradicts every criticism you make, little Willy.

Second, these Marines know exactly what is going on in Afghanistan, you may not like how simply they express the situation. You want some more refinement.... get a foreign service officer or an Ambassador to explain it to you.

Third, for you to call this stellar young leader of a small unit a "jerk", shows how disconnected from reality you are. His actions "in the arena" and those of hundreds of other American small unit leaders are in part directly responsible for the US not being attacked a second time by Al Qaeda since 9/11. I'll add to those, the small unit leaders from our Allies... the British, Australian, Danish, French and German among other nations, who have crushed Al Qaeda and weakened their Taliban hosts.

So what if some grandmother/greeter at WalMart gives him a hug after asking about his injury or if he demonstrates what makes him feel safe-- adeptness with a handgun or two. It was a strong documentary well deserving of it's Oscar nomination and the Sergeant is a great leader who has sacrificed for us (and you) with multiple tours on the front line-- I'll take a hundred like him anytime. Obviously, you wouldn't recognize leadership if it struck you in the face- he is strong, tireless, a marathoner, technically competent with all weapons and on top of every situation despite the fog of war. His men respect him. He and his lovely supportive wife are handling the cards they have been dealt very well... your criticism is wrong.

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Afghanistan along with the rest of the Middle East with their Islam law and ideals is a very tricky and fragile situation. Yes they prefer a simpler and stricter life style. Nobody was forcing them to change their ways, no one in the army was or currently is forcing technology and Western flavor on them. I think everything in the documentary was dealt with accordingly. Yes the locals are going to be angry, who wouldn't be? They're caught in the middle. I mean there's only so much you can say or do in a situation like that. Just gotta hope everything works out in the end.

As for the main guy, I thought he was a great platoon leader. He was always on point and had his men on point as well. Sure maybe not an academic power house but he got the job done, he was as courteous as can be to the locals, offering up help and medicine. Whatever he could do he did. As for his attitude back home with his injuries and all, I cut him some slack. The amount of meds he's on, he's not exactly himself. Also at the end of the day he is only 26 and went into the army at 18. Yea the army might make you a man, but being around a bunch guys all the time and being bored out of your mind, you're not exactly gonna mature the same way you normally would.

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I agree completely with the OP and frankly I'm glad he pointed it out. I would very much like to here how do americans justify they participation in these campaigns. Especially given the vast amount of various invasions, government topplings, smaller campaigns etc. around the world over the past decades. I don't think anybody can seriously claim they were all unavoidable and had to be done for security. Looking from distance (I'm finnish) pro-war americans as a collective seem to be plagued with arrogance and double standards in terms of what is perceived as justifiable to do to others, versus the expectation of how to be then treated by the rest of the world. I've heard the term american exteptionalism and it sounds accurate.

It was intersting to learn about the psyche of this films character. It was obvious he joined the marines in order to get to fight, which is understandable. While the concept of travelling somewhere to wage war seems very alien in my country, I can easily see why some people yearn for the adventure and the status of a 'sacrificing hero'. Whether it is morally acceptable is another thing. In here we have a mandatory military service for all and the last time we fought was ww2 against the Soviet Union. We resisted invasion twice which is stil a massive source of national pride. The consensus seems to be that people and nations are to be left alone to mind their own business and I couldn't agree more with that. It is hard to feel sypmhatetic towards a nation that is willing to unleash people like this films character into a foreign land armed to teeth. Ultimately it begs the queation: If you are willing to bomb others in the magnitude you have in the recent decades, why are you so upset when somebody strikes back like in 9/11 for example?

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To gs15, I wish I could have said everything as well as you said it, but I suppose my anger got the best of me. Your words were just what a veteran like myself likes to read, as I was reading your comments I kept thinking; He gets it, this guy really gets it & he can eloquently put it into words... Thank you for putting into words a superb understanding of war & of the men who participate in the up close & personal part of fighting in the war. Some seem to think that those in the military just thrive on war, enjoy the killing & just lust for all out death & destruction, but it has been said many, many times before but 3 words says it all; WAR IS HELL! It truly is HELL! No one prays harder for peace than those who have been to war. Thanks again gs15 for a great comment.

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To me the guy seems a little strange. It reminds me of Jeremy Renner in The Hurt Locker. Specially in the supermarket. He looks completely bored. And what is that stuff of posing with guns and playing with the revolver? To me he works like a robot and doesn't care the reason for being in Afghanistan. He afirmed the reason was..., but it seems memorized. Good leader, of course. Great soldier, sure. But what impacts me most is always how he get annoyed by everyday situations, like choosing a place to park the car.

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Agree with jfa283: I also thought of the "Hurt Locker" when he was so freaked out by not finding a parking spot or having to go through ordering a take away with his friends at the drive-through. His "in Afghanistan, things are a lot less complicated" (or words to that effect) was very telling, I thought.

I don't share the sentiments of the OP: These guys doing a very difficult job. No-one wants them there in Afghanistan. Sure, the Afghans hate the Taleban but if you come home and find a bunch of soldiers having taken over your house (even if they say they are "on your side"), you won't be very amused. They can't win.

The striking thing for me was more the "we are fighting for the freedom of Americans" line. Does he really believe that? The 9/11 bombers were Saudi-trained and Saudi-financed. Depriving Al-Quaeda of a base in Afghanistan is all very well but they can just move to the Yemen, Pakistan or Somalia. What is more, history should have taught everyone that you can never win in Afghanistan. The Taleban will be back within six months of the last coalition solider leaving.

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But what impacts me most is always how he get annoyed by everyday situations, like choosing a place to park the car.


you think that was just because he was a brat with no patience?

THAT was very normal behaviour for someone returned from a war - one of the very first signs of anxiety/ptsd in fact.


what i found strange was his story about saying he joined and said he did it because he wanted to kill people - not that he said it, in fact i believe there are a whole lot of gung-ho young kids who join in america for that very reason.
but the fact that the recruiter told him it was a good answer - very scary.


it reminded me of 'generation kill' - which was based heavily on fact. and their general kept telling them 'don't worry, i'm going to get us in this war'.

surely the aim of EVERY military personnel should be 'we want this war to end without a single person dying, but if they fight us we are prepared'. surely the perfect outcome would be the other side surrenders without a bullet being shot?


america needs to be very careful with how it treats its veterans in the next few years and decades - a country full of fit men with ptsd, combined with the easy access to guns over there....they'll have forgotten about muslims soon and will be fighting to keep things under control from within.
i've already heard of a few murders with vets involved, and one in particular comes to mind where he can barely remember brutally murdering the love of his life. before he went to iraq he was everybody's sweet little surfer friend from california...

you guys need to start talking about, and treating, ptsd. and get rid of all those bloody guns!!!

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Blah Blah Blah..Get a real job. LOL. Seriously, this is a movie forum not a article for you wannabe journalist. Al Qaeda was created by the USA government and 9/11 was a false flag. Learn to think for yourself rather than FOX news.



My feet smells like *beep* Its because I stepped on dog poop.

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gs15, I wish you to give serious consideration to the following:

"I believe that if we had and would keep our dirty, bloody, dollar-soaked fingers out of the business of these nations so full of depressed, exploited people, they will arrive at a solution of their own—and if unfortunately their revolution must be of the violent type because the "haves" refuse to share with the "have-nots" by any peaceful method, at least what they get will be their own, and not the American style, which they don't want and above all don't want crammed down their throats by Americans."
-- General David Monroe Shoup, 22nd Commandant of the Marine Corps (1960–1963), Medal of Honor: Colonel, U.S. Marine Corps, commanding officer of all Marine Corps troops on Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, and Gilbert Islands, from 20 to November 22, 1943, from speech delivered to community college students at Pierce College in Woodland Hills, California for their World Affairs Day, 14 May 1966.

Then I wish you to make note of Gen. Shoup's commanding officer, while he was a young lieutenant, while on duty in China, Major General Smedley D. Butler. Gen. Butler wrote a very short pamphlet in 1935. It was called "War is a Racket." Shoup, in quoting the above in '66, was simply paraphrasing Butler.

Shoup was making direct reference to Vietnam. Butler made reference to particularly WWI, but also all conflicts prior, those conflicts post WWI, and those conflicts to come. They are ALL (will be) perpetrated by the very same people. And they are not the VC/NVA or the Taliban. Dude, you don't even have a clue as to who and what Al Qaeda is.

If you are a veteran, as am I (USMC 1980-1986), then you need to make Veterans Today a daily reading stop. Get yourself educated about war and global politics. The senior managing editor at Veterans Today, is Gordon Duff. USMC combat veteran, Vietnam, sniper.

My heart goes out to Sgt. Harris and his wife. I sat in those very same chairs, in the MCB, Camp Lejeune Theater. I walked those very same halls of the Naval Medical Center, when it was freshly constructed. A brand new facility in the 80s. Its first combat casualties, those from Beirut. I was a different era. Before kevlar helmets, M16A4s, and Humvees. Still, a Marine.

It is very unfortunate, that Sgt. Harris and his wife, and those Marines associated with Harris, have no clue as to why Sgt. Harris must suffer his plight. It is sad, that apparently the Chaplain has no clue, as to why he had to preside over the memorial of those thirteen KIAs. This must stop. This must stop NOW!

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The quote by General Shoup should be familiar to every US president. It sums up the ugly situation into which the US has been dragged by those who profit from war and death.

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