In the end home movie, was that supposed to be the half-brother she is playing with on the playground? What was the meaning of that and why was he taping it from far away? Did they know each other back then but didn't know they were siblings?
shareYes
by solesister "get thee to a nunnery!"
It's not so much the idea that they knew each other when they were kids, but the fact that even though Jerry was forced to give up contact with Frankie he still made that effort to be in her life. His wife made him choose between being with her and Sam and being with Frankie, and while he chose Sam he still made that effort so that every week he got to see his daughter, even though he didn't get to interact with her.
shareI wondered this, too, but the little boy in the home movies at the end looked the same age (to me) as the little girl. Am I wrong that the father's family with Frankie was his first family and that he fell in love later with Michelle Pfeiffer and had Sam with her? Frankie seems much older than Sam.
I think they're supposed to be the same age. It was more, Jerry had an affair while he was with Pfeiffer. To me, it seemed that Frankie was just more mature than Sam, she's just grown up more.
shareThey are around the same age. I can't believe anybody would not understand the ending. The two were playing together when they were little and had no clue they were related, and both seemed to forget ever meeting. Frankie's Dad still cared for her and watched her/taped her on the playground which collided with Sam's favorite memory of going to the park, but also explained why his Dad stayed in the car.
sharethere's an interesting line Banks has when they first meet, about thinking Pine is "familiar" to her. We all assume she's sensing that they're related b/c at that point we know they are related, but I think she senses he's familiar because she played with him when they were kids. That's why he's familiar to her.
At least that's what I think.
That....and the patchouli.
shareI loved this movie and am surprised there is any question at the end. I sat with my box of tissues, Sam remembered playing with her at the park and Dad stayed in the car with the camera. My only complaint was he should have told Frankie sooner.
shareRight, because remember at the beginning of the movie, Sam said his only good memory of his father was that he would take him to the park, while he sat in his car and listened to his demos. In actuality, he wasn't listening to his demos, but actually taping the kids playing together.
Building webs is for suckas...
Thanks.
I thought the boy was Sam playing with Frankie...but had forgotten that he'd told Hannah his dad used to sit in the car and listen to demos. (or so he thought)
Fits perfectly.
Couldn't have both families...ended up, in some ways, settling for none.
I think Lillian realizes that, too...but opens her hand to Josh, and in so doing...opens to Sam, too.
I would not belong to any club that would have me as a member. G. Marx
I suppose we're supposed to buy that he was a good guy at the end because he secretly saw his daughter?
That was the most insulting part of the movie
I don't think we're supposed to buy that he was a good guy, per say. It's more that he cared or at least that he wasn't as uncaring as they both thought. The impression that I got was that he was this man who was very consumed by his work, was probably an alcoholic and prone to drug use, and could be a bit of an *beep* He did, however, care about his children even though he didn't really show it.
shareQuote ----- psunshine87 I don't think we're supposed to buy that he was a good guy, per say. It's more that he cared or at least that he wasn't as uncaring as they both thought. The impression that I got was that he was this man who was very consumed by his work, was probably an alcoholic and prone to drug use, and could be a bit of an *beep* He did, however, care about his children even though he didn't really show it. -----
I agree with @psunshine87, people are not 100% good or 100% bad. It was nice that the half-siblings realised that their dad was not completely uncaring.
I would certainly be happy to discover that my dad gave more of a cr@p than I previously thought he did.
From Venilaa: I suppose we're supposed to buy that he was a good guy at the end because he secretly saw his daughter?
That was the most insulting part of the movie
Seriously, this was insulting. That's supposed to make her feel like she was loved? That's not love. And what about the story when she came at the age of 15 and he gave her nothing but rejection?
This movie was three bad parents making bad decisions and the kids suffering. Yes, you can hope that there is healing, but don't make out her dad to be a loving dad. That was still selfishness....he's now using his son as a pawn to go see his daughter (to salve his conscience) that he can't be a father to because he was such a creep and cheated on his wife (not that I"m excusing Sam's mother's ultimatum).
Hollywood tacked on endings. Ugh.
And another thing, Sam didn't say it was his happiest memory. He said it was about the only good memory. He wasn't even an okay father.
shareI think that was Sam's perspective. In hindsight, Jerry didn't abandon his daughter, despite what Pfeffier's character wanted him to. To me, that's a standup dude. Also, I think this movie wasn't suppose to be taken literally. For some reason people really want to believe the severity of their lives post-Dad. I felt it was almost like a Frank Capra movie. In fact, Kurtzman had said that it was based on his own story where he saw two children playing and wondered if one could've been his half-sister from a different marriage his father had. Like a greeting card to fractured families.
shareThis was a father that provided for his family their whole life, he never physically or even emotionally abused his family as far as the viewer knows. I don't agree that he's such a poor father. His greatest failures are what?
- One possible incidence of infidelity in his life being a big time music guy
- Being emotionally distant with his son while having to deal with the internal crisis that he was
I could have only dreamed of having such a great father (or parent at all). These parents weren't perfect but they were so so much more than a lot of people will ever know.
We all have family issues and problems with our parents, there is no such thing as a perfect family.
"Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best intentions"
We all have family issues and problems with our parents, there is no such thing as a perfect family.
No, we weren't supposed to believe he was a good guy. He was a deeply flawed father. There can be good in the worst people, and bad in the best.
shareThis is about a father who was all about himself, who raised two kids apart who were all about themselves. The brother was with a girl who was too stupid to dump him and we were to feel sorry for the mom who had no time for her kid because she had to work hard to support him, yet somehow had enough money to live in a fairly nice apartment.
The mother is too stupid to get herself well and continues to eat unhealthy food, so the son becomes the hero by getting his mom to the hospital, a $150k to his nephew and reunites with his idiot girlfriend who I guess will wait for him why he serves his time in the Fed Pen - or did I miss something and he didn't have to go?
Yeah it was supposed to be the two of them playing together. It also went along with what Sam said in the beginning of the movie that his dad took him to the park every Sunday and sat in his car while he played. He was probably in the car so Frankie and her mother wouldn't see him and so he could still see his daughter.
shareThanks for bringing that up. I hadn't made that connection about Sam's favourite memory of his father. Made the end of the movie all the better.
shareJust to add to what the other posters said, yes it was the two of them playing together as kids. As Sam mentioned early in the movie, his father used to take him to the park to play on Sundays but Dad always stayed in the car. Sam said it was because he wanted to listen to demos and he seemed to resent that his father cared more about working than the opportunity to spend time with his son. What Sam didn't know is the real reason his father took him to that particular park and why he stayed in the car.
He had an affair that resulted in Frankie and for 8 years he was a part of her life as her father, even though it was only part time. When Sam's mother found out, she made her husband choose - us or them. He chose to stay with his wife and son and give up contact with his daughter. But her mother kept taking her to the park where he used to take her. So he took Sam there and stayed in the car so that (1) He could see his daughter and no one would know (especially his wife) and (2) His children could play together, even if they never knew they were siblings. His recording of their time playing together was the only testament to their connection to each other and his connection to both of them as his children.
To the person who said they remember every child they ever played with in their life, I would ask do you really remember every random child you bumped into and played with at a park, playground or carnival for a little while? And even the 'regulars' at such parks fade out of our memories as we grow up. It would be one thing if she'd been a school friend or they'd played at each other's houses, etc. But I find it entirely plausible that they could have played together as children at the local park on Sunday afternoons and still not remember it when they grew up.
While I still think that both of Sam's parents made some very bad choices and were extremely flawed parents, I did find that discovery to be a moving one, not just in terms of realizing that he did care about both of his kids (even if he wasn't a particluarly good parent to either of them) but for the healing it must have initiated in each of them to realize their father loved them. And what a great thing for two siblings who never knew the other existed to find - the kind of footage of them playing together as kids that most of us have with our siblings and take for granted.
I liked the ending for all of those reasons.
Thanks, Bpoz and others. Your answers cleared up the mystery for me.
shareWell said! I don't think we remember everyone we ever played with on the playground. And even if the characters happened to remember some random kid they played with once a week why would he even ever begin to think it was his sister? sure he heard her story about the park, but he wasnt thinking wow i wonder if it was the same park my dad use to bring me to and dump me at? I also love this movie and will be added to one of my all time favorites.
shareYes I really liked that scene too, somehow it clears up a lot of bad emotions from both of their childhood =) It's almost too sweet for my taste, but quite original in a "fairy tale" fashion.
I also think even if they don't remember each other enough to "recognize" each other, that's why they felt they knew each other. Even though I don't remember all names and faces from friends of my childhood, I think I have a very strong "imprint" of how these kids where, and how you felt back then.
From the screenplay "Welcome to People"...
Page 15
SAM (to Hannah): We used to go to this park on Sundays. It was like our one "thing" when I was a kid. He never got out of the car. He'd sit and watch me so he could listen to demos. But hey, y'know, that's how he discovered Kajagoogoo.
Page 65
FRANKIE: Sometimes he'd come on Sundays and we'd go to church and have a picnic. After he left for good, she kept taking me... think it's how she held onto him.
Page 118
"ON SCREEN, Little Frankie runs off to join the other kids... CAMERA FOLLOWS as she climbs the monkey bars, right next to LITTLE SAM. That's why Jerry never got out of the car. It was the only way to see his kids together. A profound act of love neither of them can deny."
(When I read this, I had to thumb back in the script to remember what it was referring to. And, yeah, that's a little too non-visual of an explanation for a screenplay, which is probably why it didn't come off 100% clear on screen for everyone.)
I thought he was supposed to be like 8 years younger?
shareJerry brought his son to the same park he used to bring his daughter so that he can look at his children. Jerry probably didn't get out of the car because he promised his wife he would sever all ties to Frankie and her mom.
Either that or the director is telling us that Sam inherited his dad's stalker traits, which is what the whole movie is about: brother stalks sister, then chickens out when she wanted a Luke / Leia moment because Pine is in Star Trek, aka. the nemesis of Star Wars.
sth128-- No.
Sam's mom made dad choose. Dad chose both for a while with the recording. And if/when he couldn't he still made sure there was a record with Sam's half sister in some way.
I also thought she was older but apparently he was seeing both of their mothers at the same time (hence why Michelle's character said she made him choose). So they are roughly the same age (she's probably a year or two older). I thought it was a good ending. She thought she was abandoned (which she was) but not in the way she thought. He continued to go to the park to check up on her, and he obviously thought about his daughter up until he died. I was curious what would be on that tape. Honestly, if Sam's sister attacked me like that I probably would stay away for a while. But his insistence on finding her after his mother gave the tape to him makes sense when you actually see it. She initially didn't care for the money because she hated her father. But she soon discovers that her father did care and while it's not explored too much in the film, they both probably forgave him.
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