I've heard a lot of good things about this movie, but don't know to watch it or not. I'm not homophobic and as cinephile i have seen some gay themed movies, but if there's too much gay sex and kissing it'll be too irritating for me.
Should i give it a try?
There's gay sex and kissing, not alot (In my opinion) It's really about love though, not gay love, but love in general.
shareNot a lot? That's the most gay sex I've seen in a movie since Short Bus. At one point, we see him wiping visible spooge off his belly with a towel. Not a lot????
shareNot a lot? That's the most gay sex I've seen in a movie since Short Bus. At one point, we see him wiping visible spooge off his belly with a towel. Not a lot????
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the fact that you find gay sex and kissing "irritating" is very good reason for you to see this movie.
shareWhy's that?
shareIt's about two gay guys who spend a weekend with each other, whether there's sex or not shouldn't matter so long as the movie stands strong which I certainly believe it does. It's a fine film.
There are two sex scenes, lasting about 2 minutes each but don't let that put you off seeing it because it really is fantastic.
if there's too much gay sex and kissing it'll be too irritating for me.
I'm not homophobic
I think the analogy is flawed. When we see rape and murder presented, it's intended to be disturbing (at least I hope so). So if we are disturbed by it, we are going "with the grain" of the film. But if we go to a love story and are disturbed by the lovemaking, that is going "against the grain" of the storytelling. See what I mean?
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See a list of my favourite films here: http://www.flickchart.com/slackerinc
It's always funny to see someone start a sentence with "I'm not a homophobe..." and then prove otherwise.
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz2ddo5ujG1qzi80do1_500.gif
Oh for gods sake, just watch the f@@king thing. As one of the characters mentions, we (gays) have to sit through endless images of straight love and sex all the time on screen and in life. Next time you walk down the street make a note of every time you see a couple, of any age holding hands or kissing. It's there all the time and we don't even notice. But gay guys and girls often feel unsafe or self conscious to do the same. Even I notice myself starring at same sex couples who are comfortable enough to walk hand in hand. I look to the day when I don't notice they are doing it anymore..
shareim a straight male and just watched it. Didn't feel ''irritated'' at all by all the intimate scenes though to be honest i was just bored by the story line. sorry!
shareI'm a gay guy and I was bored by the storyline as well.
*****
With the newspaper strike on, I wouldn't consider dying! /Bette Davis/
Seeing gay couples holding hands doesn't bother me a bit, in fact I think it's sweet. Affectionate but not intensely sexual kisses, also no problem. But making out hot and heavy, that starts to make me feel queasy.
If it did make a gay person queasy to see hetero love scenes, I wouldn't blame them a bit. In fact, I bet this is likely to be the case for a lot of lesbians moreso than gay men, and that is totally their right to feel that way.
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See a list of my favourite films here: http://www.flickchart.com/slackerinc
Oh you f-ing people need to shut up, seriously. Being uncomfortable with seeing gay sex on screen doesn't make you a homophobe. I have nothing against gay men, that doesn't mean I want to see for myself what happens in their bedroom.
shareBeing uncomfortable with seeing gay sex on screen doesn't make you a homophobe.Er, yes, it does. You may not think it does, but it does. From your comments, your POV would seem to be that "gays are okay, as long as they don't push their gayness in my face" - am I right? Sorry, but that makes you a homophobe. If you don't understand why, this film explains it beautifully. But then, I expect you're not really interested in knowing why, are you? share
i'm not going to watch the movie to get an explanation.
so the only acceptable way to not be homophobic, is to enjoy watching gay sex on a screen? because that doesn't sound right to me.
you're seriously going to say that despite my own attitude, the fact that i hold nothing against anyone who wants to have consensual sex with anybody else - that the fact that i feel uncomfortable watching two men kiss is a shortcoming. a problem with me?
i am not saying or even thinking that them BEING gay is a problem. it's not. it just is what it is. and me not enjoying it, me preferring to look away - is just what it is. biologically natural. i would look away from two fat people kissing the same way - it's not sexually attractive to me, because biologically it is not meant to be.
of course i can watch it. i don't make funny faces or noises, or complain. it doesn't even ruin anything for me - but it's simply not enjoyable.
that being said, i like romance movies even less than i like gay sex, so i think this movie really isn't for me. good day :)
i'm gay, and when i see straight couple kissing, i don't feel uncomfortable by it.. Now, why is that? *hint: I'm not a heterophobe*
And definitely I don't associate straight people kissing with fat people kissing...
i'm very happy for you, but that says nothing about why my feelings are WRONG. I didn't choose them, just like you didn't choose to be gay - so why is it that they are indicative of me being a bad person?
honestly that's not an association i have made before(fat), but in looking for a way to explain myself that made sense. and still does to a degree.
uncomfortable was probably a stronger word than i meant. it simply is not enjoyable, not entertaining, not something i would choose to watch for my own satisfaction. It doesn't gross me out, i don't HAVE to look away, it is what it is - but that doesn't mean i enjoy it. in that sense the gay-fat analogy breaks down, because i would be MORE likely to look away from fat people.
I think it has a lot to do with being able to place yourself inside a story. even if not consciously, being able to relate to a character is what invests you in a story.
now i'm not saying i can't relate myself to someone who is gay. other than that one aspect, there are a lot of similarities, and differences - as many as with any other person on the planet. BUT, when the entire point of the story is gay love, or the entire point of the scene is a gay kiss, where do i place myself in that? Do i imagine the other guy is a girl? is that less offensive to you? or is it ok if i simply don't watch because it's not something i enjoy?
so, if my position is wrong. if the way i feel is wrong, what is the right way to feel? it's not enough to have no problems with it existing, it's not enough to be happy that someone is in love, or has someone to love - you have to like watching it to not be considered homophobic? that is truly the argument i am hearing, and i cannot understand that.
I'm responding to 2 of yours posts, one on Mar 19th 2012 and the one to which this is going to show up as a reply.
This is really really sketchy territory because nobody's really yet proven that being disgusted or appalled by homosexual activity is purely socialized or biological. I'd argue much more for the former (though I've read some profound, scholarly articles that place at least some emphasis on the latter).
If we want to go with it being biological you can't really accurately compare 2 men kissing to 2 fat people kissing as it's fairly sound to say that homosexuality has existed in homosapiens (and the animal kingdom in general) far longer than obesity has and thus the psychological and biological underpinnings of the former are probably more deeply rooted in evolution than they are for the latter.
If you're not turned on by 2 men kissing it doesn't mean you have to look away or be appalled. It just is. Much like the drapes your girlfriend bought. You're neither disgusted nor amazed by them. They just are and you aren't any more inclined to look at them as you are to look away from them. It's completely neutral.
In that vain, no, the only acceptable way to not be homophobic isn't to enjoy watching same sex sexual actions, but to be completely indifferent to them. More simply put: being homophobic absolutely does include being disgusted or appalled or 'made uncomfortable' by same sex acts. Why? Because it's more likely that it's socialized versus an instinct.
Further, you state that 'biologically, it's not meant to be' and I'll argue again that homosexuality's been round for a whole hell of a lot longer than fat people have so there must have been some sort of evolutionary advantage to it otherwise it wouldn't have persisted for so long.
Anyhow, this in fact does mean that your feelings are wrong because they've been socialized by a society of bigoted christian idiots who at one time believed that men had a limited supply of semen and thus spilling any of it in anything other than a vagina was God forsaken. Why do you think they all believed masturbation was just as awful? And boy, I bet you masturbate.
And you're right, you didn't choose to feel this way about gay people but it's because you were socialized into feeling this way. But being gay is a whole hell of a lot more nuanced and complicated than your father calling people *beep* around you when you were 3 which essentially stemmed from, again, a bunch of weirdo God fearing people who believed some omnipresent dude up in the sky filled up their testes with a limited supply of baby making juice. You're essentially trying to compare apples to *beep* winnebagos, dude. It's just......it's extremely inaccurate and frankly, downright inappropriate and mildly offensive.
Lastly, I'm going to have to adamantly state that this movie isn't about gay love. It's about love in general. And it wasn't about a gay kiss...it was about a kiss. This movie could be remade, with all scenes shot exactly that same way, with 2 straight people and I still think it'd be just as profound to me at least. I think that's one of the points that movie is trying to make is that like...yo....2 people met and in a span of 3 days realized they made each other feel that ridiculously phenomenal. It's rather profound if you ask me. The fact that you can't look past the gay sex, well dude...that's your problem and the fact that you obviously still haven't gotten over it. Damn son...that's just sad.
"Looks like she has the right to remain famished" - Veronica Mars
Tennisplaya45: I believe I love you.
shareYour assumptions may apply to the person you were arguing with, they may apply to a lot of people, but they don't apply to me.
Let me introduce myself to you, and describe MY socialisation:
--I was raised in the 1970s, with "Free to Be You and Me" as my soundtrack, by a Marxist anthropologist and a feminist sociologist.
--I was raised without religion, and I am an atheist of the Dawkins type. I don't believe in anything the slightest bit "spiritual", even.
--My parents had gay friends (one of our most dear family friends to this day is a women's studies professor who lives in a lesbian commune), and always insisted since I can remember that "love is love", and that it was totally cool if I loved another boy instead of a girl.
--I always believed them, and never thought there was anything wrong with people being gay. However, I myself turned out to be steadfastly hetero despite their openness to my potentially being otherwise.
I am a political progressive and have always supported gay marriage, gays in the military, etc.
I have watched and enjoyed many lesbian films, from Two Girls in Love to Better Than Chocolate to High Art to All Over Me.
BUT I have to admit that I find the idea of male gay sex (and even kissing) "gross". I had previously admired Ang Lee as a filmmaker, but found myself having to turn off Brokeback Mountain when the two leads started making out. Similarly, this movie got too squicky for me, so I turned it off.
So it's just not true that hetero guys who are repelled by this stuff are necessarily brainwashed by right wing fundamentalist Christianity or by being raised by macho dads who stigmatised "queerness". Some of us--at least one of us, me--got the full on ultra-liberal upbringing and still can't get past the "yuck" factor. But if we are staunch allies in the political sphere, how does that hurt you any? I'd think that on balance, you'd rather have more people like me around than more of the average mainstream guy.
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See a list of my favourite films here: http://www.flickchart.com/slackerinc
It doesn't hurt but it also doesn't help a cause when people who are supposed to be so accepting are still themselves accepted for having thoughts and feelings which may very well be socialized and potentially negative then we're still attributing a bit of "well, there're some things that are still okay" when in reality none of it is. And no matter how progressive, etc your immediate family and upbringing may have been it seems you're discounting at least some aspects of the environment in which you grew up. This includes situations in which your parents may not have been present: the media, the general culture and air around you, etc. If you're parents were the sole shapers of everything you are and have become today then you'd be exactly like them. Or maybe not but my point is that just because your parents were the way they were doesn't mean that other factors, situations and the like didn't have at least some sort of effect on you. You just cant' discount that, in my opinion.
But I'm also not necessarily saying that you're wrong. I said it before that there're certain scientists that believe there is an evolutionary underpinning for a 'disgust at homosexuality' factor to have evolved in the species so I can't say for sure it's entirely socialized (for that reason and also that I'm no sociologist or anything like that).
I will say this though: being totally accepting but still possessing the queasy factor is essentially the reason that Russell never talked to his friend about stuff like that in the film. At least that's how I saw it. He knew his friend was totally cool with everything but was still somehow unsure and afraid given that 'disgust' factor that exists in society.
"Looks like she has the right to remain famished" - Veronica Mars
But isn't that okay? There are a lot of hetero preferences around sexuality that are apparently common (based on porn) that I find gross, and if straight people I know are doing them, I don't want to see it, hear about it, or think about it.
You're right of course that there is a lot more to someone's environment than their parents. But growing up in liberal college towns, I don't remember feeling any anti-gay vibe around me. It was actually more seen as "cool" to be gay, it seemed to me. And I mean, I think of myself as a "metrosexual" and admire the way a lot of gay guys are hip, dress well, and appreciate good grooming. But sure, I can totally see how it's unfair to want them to be in a box where they are "fabulous" but sort of chaste. I just figure though that as long as I strongly support their equal rights under the law, and treat them respectfully, it should be my right to quietly feel an "ick" factor, just like it's my right to look at one woman and think she's hot, but look at another and think she's homely and sexually unappealing.
In fact, that last point makes me think of another angle to describe my POV: I think a lot of people would find it fairly unappealing to watch a romantic movie, including sex scenes, in which the two leads were unattractive (or how about *old* and unattractive?). I know I would. That's pretty much exactly how I feel about watching a movie like this. Not that it's "wrong", not that it's an assault on my manhood, just "blech, I don't want to watch this". Does that make sense at all?
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See a list of my favourite films here: http://www.flickchart.com/slackerinc
Well, there ARE a lot of hetero preferences around sexuality but psychology is also pretty convinced that they're almost entirely developed and not inherent. Further, I'm guessing you're talking about things like coprophilia or urolagnia that give you this feeling of not wanting to see, hear or think about but for those particular things humans also have a much more salient and innate 'gross out factor' from those things even outside the context of sex. I'd be willing to bet that my bringing up people who have lycra fetishes doesn't give you queasy or gross out feelings or ones in which you don't want to think about it. As I said in a post to which you replied: it instills in you a reaction about as strong as something like bed linen does. Your almost entirely apathetic (unless you really like shopping for linens or something but I gather you're getting my point, anyway). Further, you say that you find some women homely and sexually unappealing but you're not grossed out by them. You're just not turned no by them. And that's kind of my point: shouldn't it be that, all socialization aside, people are just as equally apathetic to homosexual sex? Perhaps there were some evolutionary benefits to being 'grossed out' by gay sex such that the trait worked it's way into the fabric of the species on a somewhat innate level but it's really hard to say. But then again Evolutionary Psychology isn't well known for being a particular cut and dry field.
The same can be said about watching old or unattractive people have sex or old AND unattractive people. Is there really any reason that a trait such as being grossed out by this could've evolved into the human species? You could argue that yes there is but it seems more likely that it's socialized or at the very least the trait itself is being exacerbated in it's expression based upon the environmental factors in which is currently exists.
Anyway, that's my thoughts on the whole thing. Essentially I'm pretty convinced thus far that being grossed out by homosexuality is a socialized trait and that's what makes it wrong, offensive and not so good. You're also feeding into a rather drawn out and pedantic stereotype when you say things like
"It was actually more seen as "cool" to be gay, it seemed to me. And I mean, I think of myself as a "metrosexual" and admire the way a lot of gay guys are hip, dress well, and appreciate good grooming."
which also isn't helping the matter any.
You should check out this other post about Weekend that I stumbled upon
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1714210/board/nest/207178917?d=207264535#207264535
I found it rather profound that finally someone else sees just how skewed things really are potrayed in the movied.
"Looks like she has the right to remain famished" - Veronica Mars
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I call this the argument from "eeeewwww". It doesn't appeal to you and your visceral reaction to seeing two guys get it own makes you believe that you have a valid argument.
shareActually, that doesn't make anyone a homophobe. Believe it or not, there are actually straight people that feel uncomfortable watching a heterosexual love scene. Does that mean those heterosexuals are heterophobes?
shareNo. It would have been different if the OP had asked how much on-screen sex there is in the movie, because sex scenes in movies make them uncomfortable. However, if one asks if there is "too much" gay sex in a gay romantic movie it will be all too easy for others to see the question as the typical revulsion to any physical intimacy between men that so often is seen from homophobes.
"The men people admire are daring liars; those they most detest are men who speak the truth"
My POV is that "gays are more than okay, and I don't mind at all if they're really flamboyant even--in fact, it's kind of fun--but when they make out I find it gross". That doesn't mean I think they should be discriminated against or get in trouble for kissing in public. And I'm not going to go up to them and be rude about it. But I refuse to feel like a bad person because I quietly think to myself that it's yucky.
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See a list of my favourite films here: http://www.flickchart.com/slackerinc
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Well said--I agree completely.
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See a list of my favourite films here: http://www.flickchart.com/slackerinc
"I'm not homophobic."
"but if there's too much gay sex and kissing it'll be too irritating for me."
Haha, ok. To address your question seriously, though: could a non-Japanese person like Seven Samurai? Could a woman listen to a rock band with all male members? Hopefully, one day, these answers won't be so baffling.
I almost didn't watch the film but I'm glad I did. Very well done, great performances and ending.
shareI don't like romance movies, at all.
me not enjoying something, and it bothering me - are two different things.
it doesn't bother me that homosexuality exists. as long as you aren't hurting someone (who doesn't want to be hurt...), do what makes you happy.
it doesn't bother me to know gay people. it doesn't bother me if an actor or artist i like is gay.
it does not BOTHER me, to see two men kiss or even lying in bed, etc. i simply do not enjoy it.
how does the fact that i don't enjoy it make me homophobic?
also, your post is nothing other than a pat on your own back. if you are not going to say something other than "i'm awesome", what's the point?
i'm being honest with myself and everyone else about a very touchy subject, and it'd be cool if someone were willing to actually discuss the idea rather than just point out how much better they are because they like to watch gay sex and i don't. i can't even believe i just wrote that, and in all seriousness.
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thank you.. that was a really good reply
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