US users 5.7
Non-US users 4.2
Most of the time it's about equal, with more "boring" drama movies like this usually scoring higher with Europeans and lower in US.
I haven't seen it yet, it probably isn't the best movie ever made, but It's obvious a realistic rating is around 6.0 not 4.3
Serbs once again showed how mature and willing to come to grips with history they are.
I haven't seen it yet
but It's obvious a realistic rating is around 6.0
I was downvoted by Serbs. It's blatantly and glaringly obvious! No film gets this score and you can clearly see the scoring here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1714209/ratings?ref_=tt_ov_rt unless you'd like to explain this anomaly to me.
💀 "That fückin' Flowers."
Movie has around 50ish % on RT from critics, few % less from audience, and it has 29 on metacritic. Critics generally, as we all know, butchered Jolie for her incompetence and, if I recall ''atrocious'' script. The movie was drawn and quartered by a number of critics and, surprisingly or not, few of the critics were about how politically bias and incorrect it was. So movie, as a whole, is bad, and is recognized as both bad and worthless, and its rating is actually realistic, or even generous, when compared to similar movies.
Having said that, any movie that deals so insensitively with such a sensitive topic, caricaturing civil war and making complex conflict seem as clear cut as Lord of the Rings plot, with exactly the same kid of polarisation, will indeed have both fanatic support of those who are being whitewashed, and equally fanatic criticism of those demonised.
What is interesting to me is this ''blatant and glaringly obvious'' display of hypocrisy seen in the fact that you didn't note a much larger anomaly that is 20% of 10 star ratings for a movie that was so heavily criticised. In fact, without 1 star votes the % of 10 star votes would be closer to 50% consequently producing a very highly rated movie. Would that make sense to you or make you go on this little social justice crusade?
It is much more obvious proof of a pro movie agenda than giving a 1 star rating to a movie universally disliked is of anti movie agenda. You can even interpret such a number of 1 star votes as an answer to a much more obvious up voting campaign. I did that with 300. I gave it a 1 when I saw the ridiculously high ratings, even though movie probably deserved a 2.
Nothing you said changes the facts.
💀 "That fückin' Flowers."
I haven't seen any facts there, just biased, superficial and highly selective interpretations of anonymous statistical data.
shareYeah? How do you say "You're full of sh+t" in Serbian?
💀 "That fückin' Flowers."
Closest thing you should write in any of the languages from ex Yugoslavian countries would be ''Nevidjeno lupam gluposti!''.
shareТи си српски јазбина !
💀 "That fückin' Flowers."
As solid as your arguments on this topic...
share[deleted]
I simply don't like misinformation and stereotypes, both of which have some strange kind of appeal to you.
And as for honesty, I will rather take Oliver Stone's vision of this war (or any other for that matter) over Angelina Jolie's incompetent whitewashing of Jihad anytime.
This was a film not a documentary. It was a piece of entertainment. Everyone else got that except the murderers. Tough! I have zero love for Islam, but what you people did was bad. Why can't you admit to what you done then get on with your life? Look at Germany and Japan. Serbs are like bullies who can't face the truth. Come out of the closet.
💀 "That fückin' Flowers."
Since we have come to a point where only two of us are interested in this discussion I can get a bit political and off topic now.
''We'' people protested against that war from day 0. Serbia is the only country whose people overthrew, by force, a government that led its citizens, and Serb minority in Bosnia to a conflict. And I was a part of that 5. October coup. In all other states/sides involved in that conflict, where nationalistic leaders who perpetrated a number of war crimes, both against its own people and against minorities, political figures from that period are hailed as heroes, and criticizing their deeds is an impossible task. There is only one truth there, an official one, given by high state and religious figures. Any other truth is blasphemy.
Angelina is telling their truth. Not the real one - and since you mentioned documentaries, there is a reason numerous non Serbian made documentaries, most notably Norwegian ones, are proving real truth is considerably different than ''self victimizing truth of Bosnian Muslims''.
So it is really distasteful, both for her and for you, to take such one sided approach and present a vicious civil conflict as a war of invasion with clear cut sides, and clear cut motives. When you say ''you people did bad things'' it implies other side in that war was a victim? This conflict was not like that, and if we are talking about viciousness then skinning, crucifixion, fatal bloodletting, abortion by knife, quartering, freezing to death, decapitation, throat slitting, mutilating by knife, stoning AND RAPE would also constitute as ''bad things'' and those are exactly the methods of torture and murder Muslims perfected in that war. The same method they use today. Don't make me post pictures and videos please.
So I think you can understand why I, or 59% of those 1 star voters feel disgusted when they barely (or never) see a Muslim fire a gun in Angelina's movie, while Serbs act as Orcs, as grotesque caricatures of their most extreme or evil doing historical counterparts.
Neither was the responsibility for that conflict solely on Serbs, and Bosnian Muslim president's close relations with Al Qaeda and Bin Laden (Bosnian citizen as of 1993 if I recall) should speak enough about the ''innocence of Muslim side'', nor did Serbs have exclusive rights on war time atrocities, and no movie can get away with that amount of, khm...artistic liberty...in such a sensitive topic, and hope to have a high rating.
Okay, so it was bad for both sides. But the story must be told. One star? Was the camera lens still on? Was the acting atrocious? No? Then one star is a reactionary score for the message. There are films that don't show my country in a way I'd like, but I don't stress over it and hang around its messageboard.
By the way, as an atheist I find all religious war to be pathetic. Grown people fighting over whose superstition is better defies logic, reason and good taste. My two cents.
💀 "That fückin' Flowers."
It was bad for ALL sides, since there were (at least 3, or even 4 sides if you count two opposing Muslim factions). At some point they were all fighting each other (later Muslims ceased fire and allied with Croats against Serbs). How can anyone, after two decades of information about the conflict any many revisions of the official narrative, not know better than to follow what can only be described as a wartime propaganda of a certain side, regardless of its colours.
So yes, it WAS bad for all, but this story is not a story that HAD to be told since it is a product of someone's imagination and did more damage to the region than not telling anything ever did. Even the real victims of war time rapes in Bosnia were offended. Serb, because their story was never told, and their suffering denied, as if it didn't happen. Muslim, because it was not how it happened, and love was not what they could ever feel toward their rapists.
So, who was this movie for?
I mentioned Oliver Stone, not because he showed Serbs in better light than others in 1998 Savior (he didn't, by any means) but because he showed horror of the war in an accurate way. And because it was actually a good and deep movie.
Every Serb is used to his people being portrayed as bad guys in cinema, tv or video games etc...and trust me, it is not a factor that would significantly change the way any Serb looks and judges a movie. This one was simply unwatchable, dull and boring movie about...nothing. It would probably have more or less the same rating for it even if it was about war I have 0 knowledge about. Historical inaccuracy and political agenda are just one of many flaws this movie has. Those factors make it malicious but many others make it bad.
The most prominent Serb made movie about the war, Pretty Village Pretty Flame (a somewhat odd translation of more literal Pretty Villages Burn Beautifully), a true 10 star masterpiece - has many Serbs burn down houses, kill Muslim civilians, joke about their deaths, show raw hatred, consider gang rape, pillage and what not - i.e. do considerably more ''bad things'' on screen than any other ''side''. But no one considers it anti-Serb, it isn't even anti-Muslim, just anti-war. It does so much more to explain the roots of the conflict, its absurdity, the physical and psychological impact of the war, as well as the COMPLEX personalities and ways in which all of them were SUCKED IN this war - as most indeed were. And it had 5 changing timelines taking you on this horrific roller coaster ride from scenes filled with (black) humor to sheer horror.
Same as I would never watch Rambo for ''a story'' about Vietnam war, but rather FMJ or Platoon, I would never go to this little school project of a semi informed quasi humanitarian, over other, better ones. That is why it deserves no more than 1 or 2 star rating.
I truly appreciate the lengthy responses to my comments. However, the point the OP was trying to make was that this well-made movie was downvoted by Serbs judging the film on its message and not on its own merit as a piece of entertainment. After denying it, you then go on to admitting it. Dafuq?!
Now, I understand -- and even sympathize with the Serbs for what they suffered through -- but, again, this is a Hollywood movie, not a documentary. It should've been scored thus.
💀 "That fückin' Flowers."
As you can see from my first post here months ago, I never denied the possibility of Serbs or any other ethnic group offended by such film to give it one star rating.
However. Original question was implying some Serb led campaign, due to ''their unwillingness to come to grips with history'' (even though it is the only ethnic group or ''side'' to this day whose last majority of population sees its wartime leaders as criminals and the only side whose political leadership issued a formal apology to its former enemies) was the sole reason film had 4.something on IMDB instead of 6 or so.
I say that might not be the way because not only is there no way to know how many of Non US votes were Serb at all (and how many US were), but because such a heavily criticized film IS going to have a lot of 1 star ratings one way or another. The bigger issue here is this one also has an incredibly high % of 10 star ratings - which is even larger anomaly than high % of one star ratings.
I find it hypocritical none of you ever mentioned it in this context of ''voting campaign'' because it is far more honest, logical and defendable to put a ''Bosnian Muslims up voted this film'' than a ''Serbs downvoted it'' - though both can be true.
This is exactly what is wrong with the philosophy of movie as well. All sides did horrible things, but let's just focus on one side's deeds (Hollywood-ising it a bit along the way for a greater effect) and completely forget the other.
"was implying some Serb led campaign" He didn't imply any such thing. He stated the same as me. Serbs tried to flush the film. End of. And now that you mention an organized campaign... Joking. Or am I?
💀 "That fückin' Flowers."
Campaign as a ''series of activities designed to produce a particular result'' is exactly what ''Serbs tried to flush the film'' means. It doesn't need to have an official project behind it.
What is more, if we would speculate about official campaign Serbs would hardly be the best candidate for it. After all they've been the bad guy for the past 20 years, in dozens of movies, tv and video games. What would a film, already poorly accepted, change?
On the other hand, the recent trend in documentary film, as well as non fiction literature is towards the reexamination and revision of mostly unchallenged Yugoslav war narrative. It is a trend Serbs don't want to interrupt of course.
So you have documentaries such as ''Srebrenica, a town betrayed'', ''Sarajevo ricochet'' ''Weight of Chains'' etc...works of literature such as ''Unholy Terror, Bosnia, Al Qaida and the Rise of Global Jihad'' by John Schindler, or ''Al Qaida in Europe, Afghan-Bosnian Network'' by Kohlmann, ''Wie Der Dschihad Nach Europa Kam'' by Jurgen Elsasser etc.. not to mention works of Noam Chomsky and emerging diaries and memoirs of various EU and US soldiers deployed in Bosnia. So, it is Bosnian Muslims who are more likely to want and need their old, self-victimising version of the story to be promoted as much as possible, to prolong its inevitable downfall, especially when, shockingly, there is someone dumb, naive or just ignorant enough to portray it from A to Z in a big budget feature film.
And unfortunately, writing days after Paris attacks, and a hours after Bosnian (Muslim) fans disrespected a minute of silence to those victims, whitewashing of these people:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/sites/default/files/uploads/2012/10/bosnian-salafi-preacher-bilal-bosni-sings-songs-of-jihad-with-explosives-on-our-chests-we-pave-the-way-to-paradise_osbra_0.jpg
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/guest/triangle/mujb.jpg https://leejaywalker.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/bosnian-mujahedins3.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/G9dq9Ioz_bY/hqdefault.jpg
http://www.memri.org/image/12253.JPG
and consequently these http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/19/14/2AAB876F00000578-3167057-image-a-19_1437312099647.jpg (Location: Bosnia)
- seem more distasteful and inhumane than ever.
Wow! They don't have jokes in your country?! How sad. I repeat, no one is suggesting or has even said that Serbs organized the downvote. YOU DID! Why should I listen to anything else you say when you can't tell the truth? And pointing out how dumb the religious are -- especially the "religion of peace" clowns (yup, that was also a joke! Ask a foreign friend to explain humor to you) serves no purpose. I'm a militant atheist. I already know.
💀 "That fückin' Flowers."
Once again you concentrate on trivial things while casually ignoring the most important points. Expected when you don't actually know a lot about the topic you seem so eager to comment on.
Also why do you (OP as well) have this need to insult a whole nation (not even using common stereotypes as an excuse)rather than a person or a group that you have an issue with? It not only seems rather primitive but also considerably damages your own credibility.
However, despite the fact I already explained what the word ''campaign'' means and how virtually the same it is to the meaning of OP's sentence, and the fact I used the word ''speculation'' about some ''organised'' voting - and only to illustrate another point, could you please (properly) interpret the original poster's sentence proving how I fundamentally misunderstood it:
Serbs (as in ALL Serbs?) once again showed how mature and willing to come to grips with history they are.
That facts speak for themselves! No other film on IMDb has this kind of voting. Are you claiming that it's a coincidence?!
Dream on.
💀 "That fückin' Flowers."
That is a flawed logic that produces a flawed and irrelevant question.
Fact is the badly reviewed movie was originally much higher rated on IMDB, due to tons of 10 star votes (which none of you care to notice), and this big % of 1 star votes is more likely just a logical response to a fabricated popularity. And you don't need to be immediately offended by movie (as Serbs would be) to hate a fabricated rating and try to ''put it where it belongs''.
As we can all see, out of top 1000 voters 1 star is the third most common rating (others being 5 and 4).
Out of US voters (less likely to be pro Serb, let alone blindly so) 1 star is the most common rating (10, oddly enough is the second).
So even if we don't include the ''suspicious'' Non US votes, the picture doesn't change all that much and bottom line, Serbs (even if they did mostly vote 1 star, which is impossible to know) didn't bring this movie down - even without such large % of 1 star votes, which are already countered by large % of 10 star votes, movie lands in a still generous 4 star neighborhood.
"Badly reviewed film"? 2 bad reviews versus 9 good ones? You do realise your lies are building up, right? The film was a critical success, you clown!
💀 "That fückin' Flowers."
Its critical success is quite obvious...in Bosnia. 🎉
As for the ''good reviews''...is that what the green mushy thing next to its title on RT means?
I suggest keeping your insults, your bias and your ignorance to yourself please.
Oh, so you're judging the film locally? Bye!!
💀 "That fückin' Flowers."
Uhm...no. I said that sarcastically, noticing that your ''critical success'' of the film can be applied only to (a part of) Bosnia.
I am actually glad you folded, you should have done that after second or third post. You got nothing, and you knew that. Good bye.
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Ha ha!! Complaining to IMDb? Yeah, figures. Serbs being Serbs. No wonder they beat your whiny asses.
💀 "That fückin' Flowers."
A nonsensical post really. Once you see it then by all means post your opinion. I am not a Serb but the film as a whole sucks. Simply put, it was poorly written and executed. It does deserve its low rating. Not because of its muddled, uneducated, sometimes downright offensive subject matter, but purely as a motion picture as a whole.
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